Trial by Jury: Proposed Restrictions

Debate between Lord Faulks and Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede

Monday 14th July 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede (Lab)]

I agree with the noble Lord—of course I would agree because, as a magistrate, I was among those who hear 90% of all criminal cases. There is no right to a jury trial; however, there is a right to a fair trial. For a fair trial, it must be heard in a timely manner. That is where we are failing. We need these systemic changes to address that fundamental problem, so that people—both victims and defendants—can get a fair trial in a timely way.

[Lord Faulks (Non-Afl)]

My Lords, further to the question from the noble Lord, Lord Pannick, can I ask the Government to take particular note of the recommendation in relation to fraud trials? This is not a new suggestion; it goes back to Lord Roskill about 50 years ago. These are very lengthy, very expensive trials, which are often very difficult for juries to understand—that is not in any way to patronise the jury system. It would save a great deal of time and money, and would help with the backlog, if we moved to a system of trial that does not involve juries.

[Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede (Lab)]

The noble Lord makes a very good point. It was a recommendation of Sir Brian’s, and I am sure it is one on which the Government will reflect very carefully.

Criminal Justice System: Capacity

Debate between Lord Faulks and Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede

Tuesday 22nd October 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede (Lab)]

I thank the noble Baroness for that question. In a sense, she exemplifies the difficulty of the various matters we are grappling with when trying to address the overall problem of having this large number of people in prison at the same time as the riots were happening over the summer period. I acknowledge that that is a difficult situation. Regarding the IPP sentences, the Government have set up an IPP action plan which they are working at full speed on, and proposals will be coming forward in due course.

[Lord Faulks (Non-Afl)]

My Lords, the Minister described very well the process which he undertook when sentencing somebody, giving them a sentence of imprisonment only when other avenues had been properly explored. I was a recorder for some considerable time and that very much echoes my approach and, I suspect, the approach of most judges: a real reluctance to send people to prison unless there is no other alternative. However, during the last Labour Government, there was an enormous amount of legislation changing the sentencing powers of judges and magistrates—particularly judges—and not trusting the judges to make their own assessment of what the appropriate sentence was. When there is this review of the appropriate response to the prison crisis, can the Minister convey to his colleagues that it is not a good idea to fetter the discretion of a judge and prevent them coming to the right conclusion in the right case?

[Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede (Lab)]

I think I can reassure the noble Lord. It is intended that we will have very senior former judges on the sentencing review, who I am sure will take to heart the noble Lord’s point.

Strategic Lawsuits Against Public Participation

Debate between Lord Faulks and Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede

Wednesday 24th July 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede (Lab)]

My Lords, there are various attempts at dealing with SLAPPs in different legislatures across the world. The Government are currently working with the Council of Europe, with its 46 member states, to try to get a more comprehensive approach. The noble Lord’s experience in Ontario, which he referred to, will be taken into account.

[Lord Faulks (Non-Afl)]

My Lords, I congratulate the noble Lord on his appointment. He is of course doubly there—he is not only elected but appointed, which gives him particular status on the Front Bench. I sympathise greatly with his position in the Ministry of Justice, which he will much enjoy. He will remember the terms of the amendment put down to the then Economic Crime and Corporate Transparency Bill; it was a start, but will he agree that it is important that we have really muscular legislation? Can he bear in mind that his own Foreign Secretary said that these SLAPPs have the effect of

“stifling effectively not just the rule of law and freedom of speech, but particularly going to journalists doing their job”?

[Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede (Lab)]

Regarding the noble Lord’s opening comments, I am a hereditary Peer, though not an elected one, but I am a life Peer, which is the reason I am standing here at the moment. The noble Lord is absolutely right: my right honourable friend David Lammy has expressed very strong views on this matter, which is one that the Government are taking seriously. As I tried to reassure noble Lords in my earlier answers, we want to get this right and to be trenchant in the legislation that we bring forward.