Direction of Government

Debate between Lord Empey and Baroness Smith of Basildon

Wednesday 2nd September 2026 Lords Chamber

[Lord Empey (UUP)]

My Lords, the Prime Minister was on a tour of the United Kingdom in recent weeks, and I welcome that. He recently visited Northern Ireland and referred to a border poll and to the Troubles Bill. However, the one thing that was not mentioned was the inter-state case being taken to the Republic of Ireland against the United Kingdom on the amnesty issue, from a Government in Dublin who have been operating a concealed amnesty since 1998. Can the Leader of the House assure us that representations will be made to the Irish Government to withdraw that outrageous case straightaway so that we can have a proper relationship and not deal with a hypocritical situation where the Republic can allow over 500 people to be murdered on our border and refuse 108 applications for people to be extradited?

[Baroness Smith of Basildon (Lab)]

I know the noble Lord, and I think he has spoken to my colleagues in the Northern Ireland Office about this matter. Having taken advice from my noble friend the Northern Ireland Minister, who is sitting next to me, I know that she has had conversations with the Irish Government on this and those conversations will continue. If he wants to take that up further with her then we will be happy to talk to him, but he can be assured that conversations and discussions continue on that issue.

Northern Ireland (Executive Formation) Bill

Debate between Lord Empey and Baroness Smith of Basildon

Committee: 1st sitting (Hansard - continued): House of Lords
Monday 15th July 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Empey]

My Lords, I congratulate the noble Lord, Lord Hain, on his persistence in this matter. I am also encouraged that the Minister said last week at Second Reading that there would be no risk of a person receiving a pension if an act was carried out by his or her own hand. The criminal injuries legislation, if applied to this, would ensure that that did not happen. However, there is perhaps a risk with people’s relatives. Whatever we do, let us be absolutely clear that the language of the legislation clearly reflects Parliament’s intention; otherwise, somebody will JR the thing and the whole process will become discredited. That is my major worry. With that qualification, I support the amendment moved by the noble Lord, Lord Hain.

[Baroness Smith of Basildon]

My Lords, I rise very briefly to endorse and thank my noble friend Lord Hain and his supporters for bringing this forward. As he mentioned, of all the posts I ever had in government, my role as a victims Minister in Northern Ireland was the one that stayed with me and affected me the most. The euphemistically named Troubles left a legacy of not just physical pain but mental pain and anguish that affects later generations and both sides of the community, as we have heard. A lot of people were caught up in things that they knew nothing about. I remember talking to one man about his experiences. Every year, a paper would print a photograph of a bus that had been wrecked in a bombing. His father had died on that bus, yet nobody thought of the pain it caused him to see that photograph printed on the anniversary year after year.

This is not just about the financial need people are in. It also gives recognition to those victims and survivors who will receive a pension and those who will not but who recognise how important it is that the suffering and trauma experienced by victims over many years has been recognised. This is also about health. Many have not undertaken the employment they could have done, which had a financial knock-on effect. This is long overdue. I am sure there is more that can be done over time for those who have survived, but I think this is a really important step. I am encouraged that we are all anticipating a very positive response from the Minister.