National Insurance Contributions (Secondary Class 1 Contributions) Bill

Debate between Lord Eatwell and Lord Howard of Lympne

Report stage
Tuesday 25th February 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Howard of Lympne (Con)]

My Lords, I am afraid that I too was unable to be present at the earlier stages of the Bill, but I rise to support this amendment—in particular, the provisions relating to hospices. These would have the same effect as later amendments in the name of my noble friend Lady Neville-Rolfe, to which I have also put my name. I draw attention to my entry in the register as vice-president and past chairman of Hospice UK.

The added burden that the increased contributions will place on the hospice sector are considerable. The extra cost has been estimated at no less than £34 million a year. St Christopher’s Hospice in south London has said that it will face increased costs of around £450,000 a year—equivalent to the cost of nine specialist nurses. Dorothy House hospice in Wiltshire estimates additional costs of £422,000 a year. The Kirkwood Hospice has had to put 33 roles at risk of redundancy, citing the increased national insurance costs as one of the drivers. Nottinghamshire Hospice is also proposing redundancies, again citing these extra costs as one of the factors.

These are just some of the examples of the devastating effect that these measures will have on hospice care. This is all so short-sighted. We all know that one of the major challenges facing the NHS is bed-blocking. As I have told your Lordships before, hospices can make a huge contribution to overcoming this challenge by looking after patients in the community, either in hospices or looked after by hospices at home. To make that contribution, hospices need more resources, not fewer, so this change will add to the challenges facing the NHS, not only directly in respect of its own employees but indirectly by diminishing the capacity of hospices to help.

The Minister will no doubt refer to the Government’s recent announcement that £100 million would be made available to hospices, and that is indeed welcome. But that money is for capital projects. Not a penny of it is available to defray the extra costs of the increase in national insurance contributions, which we are debating today, so it will have little or no effect on the crisis in hospice care that I have described.

I urge the Government to think long and hard about this amendment and to come up with a constructive solution.

[Lord Eatwell (Lab)]

My Lords, I find some difficulty in addressing this group of amendments, specifically because these amendments are but a part of 38—out of the total of 44—amendments in the Marshalled List that are essentially all the same. The 38 amendments all propose exemptions to the changes proposed in the Bill, or variations in the various thresholds at which employers’ national insurance is charged. All the amendments have the same internal logic: they are designed to reduce revenue. All 38 are the same; they vary only in the individuals, firms or groups that are to be exempted. The House will, of course, deem many of the individuals and groups not just worthy but really deserving of support.

I wish to address the 38 amendments collectively because they are the same. The Liberal Democrat Benches, notably with amendments associated with the noble Baroness, Lady Kramer, seek to exempt providers of care homes or domiciliary care, primary care providers, dentists, pharmacists, charitable providers of healthcare, hospice care, carers and part-time workers. She adds providers of education or childcare to children under five years of age, universities, providers of further or higher education, registered charities, housing associations, small or micro businesses, town councils, parish councils and businesses in the hospitality sector.

Financial Services Bill

Debate between Lord Eatwell and Lord Howard of Lympne

Tuesday 3rd July 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Eatwell]

My Lords, I am grateful to noble Lords who have taken part in a debate which, as the noble Lord, Lord Sassoon, said, is timely and important. I was impressed by the fact that virtually every noble Lord who spoke, with one or two exceptions to whom I shall refer in a moment, felt some wider consideration was needed than that currently envisaged in the Government’s proposals with respect to Mr Wheatley and—if I may be forgiven by the noble Lord, Lord Higgins, for using the shorthand—Mr Tyrie’s review. The noble Lord, Lord Carlile, wanted to go wider in a different way by introducing the innovation of a special prosecutor. Special prosecutors have at best a very mixed record in the United States, which should be taken into account. Focusing on the legal issues is too narrow an approach in the circumstances that we face. As the noble Lord, Lord Phillips, said, there is “a huge congregation of issues”; my noble friend Lord Myners said that a fundamental review was needed; a “strategic inquiry” was the phrase used by the noble Lord, Lord Higgins. As my noble friend Lord Peston pointed out, the next major financial crisis is unlikely to occur in the LIBOR market; the next scandal will occur somewhere else. Unless we look at the underlying foundations of problems in our banking industry, we will not be in the least prepared. The noble Lord, Lord Blair, with his experience of legal matters in financial regulation, referred to a need to consider things “in the round”—I could not have chosen a better phrase.

The major difference, as I detected, with the arguments that I put forward came from those who felt that I was trying to slow things down. That is the last thing that I am trying to do. As I pointed out, I am entirely supportive of Mr Wheatley’s proposals and I am supportive of the idea of a Joint Committee moving forward to deal with the specific implications and consequences of the LIBOR element—what Mr Tyrie refers to as the ring-fence proposals. However, as the noble Lords, Lord O’Donnell and Lord Kerr, said, if there is no sign of getting to a solution, then we can have an inquiry. As the noble Lord, Lord O’Donnell, said, we should perhaps consider whether we need to go further.

The key issue then becomes one of timing and why we should not get on with all three? We should understand of course the legal issues with respect to prosecution—I take that under advisement—but what is the problem with addressing these matters? There is no other reason not to deal with all three. I reject entirely the caricature that I was suggesting that things be slowed down; I certainly was not. We need to get on with the immediate issues, but there are much wider issues affecting the future of this country that need to be addressed.

[Lord Howard of Lympne]

The noble Lord has repeatedly talked about the need for a wider inquiry than what I think we have all agreed to call the Tyrie inquiry. Given what on any view are the extraordinarily wide terms of reference of which the Minister has informed the Committee today, can the noble Lord identify any specific angle, matter or issue that is not covered by those wide terms of reference?