Common Fisheries Policy (Amendment etc.) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019

Lord Eames Excerpts

Tuesday 26th March 2019 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Byford (Con)]

My Lords, I thank my noble friend the Minister for introducing these statutory instruments, which I welcome. As she said, it will enable us to have a smooth transition from the current arrangements with the EU, and I am pleased to know that the international agreements are well in place. I personally look forward to our taking responsibility for our own fisheries in future years, and I am delighted that work has continued with the regional and devolved bodies to make sure that this will happen.

I have three questions, but I would first like to make one or two other comments. The most important thing, which has been worrying many of us who have spoken in fishing debates before, is the question of our responsibility towards having sustainable stocks in the future and looking at total allowable catches. It is very important that science continues to work with the industry, because that is the best way forward.

The landing obligations are referred to in the statutory instruments, but I wonder whether my noble friend has more details that she would like to share with us. On the EU quota set, which was 69% in 2018, I was somewhat disturbed to learn that it has dropped to a minimum 59% in 2019. I wonder what the reason is for that.

Like other noble Lords, I have received briefing papers from the Marine Conservation Society, Greener UK and Wildlife, to name just a few. They have a series of questions, which I would like to put. The first is about enforcement when we come away from the EU. Is the Minister quite content that we will have enforcement systems in situ when we leave?

Secondly, I believe that a governance gap is possible in the way in which we currently have to report to the EU. At the moment we are slightly in limbo, because the Fisheries Bill in the House of Commons is not moving. We have also been promised a draft environment Bill, but that is still on hold; we do not have it. So the question is: if we move away and this comes into being sooner rather than later, who will actually act to hold the Government to account? At the moment, it is not clear from the statutory instruments.

I turn to the landing obligations, particularly regarding discards. This issue has troubled us over many years and I do not think that there is enough about it in these two statutory instruments. The Minister may say that it is not necessary, but it would be good to have some form of words about landing obligations, and discards in particular. I will also refer to a practice that I think is totally unacceptable: the trawling that has occurred on some sea beds around the country. Over the last few weeks I have been asking Questions on this matter and getting Answers from Ministers. The issue is not featured in these SIs but it is of huge interest and importance.

On the reporting requirements, there is no detail. I wonder therefore whether the proposed office for environmental protection is the Government’s choice. As that will not be in being to start with, have they considered using the Marine Management Organisation as a possible office to hold in the in-between time? Scientific research is hugely important, and we need to look at that in future.

There are many other areas on which I could talk with great passion about the fishing industry. I personally look forward to us gaining control over the waters around our country. I know that the negotiations will not be very easy. Some of the organisations that I have mentioned have concerns about what is in these statutory instruments, what is coming in the Fisheries Bill and the gap between the two. If my contribution tonight has slightly reflected those concerns, I think it has been worth while.

I accept the statutory instruments as they stand. I am grateful to the secondary legislation committees that have done a lot of work on this. We have a great opportunity in front of us—a way in which we can work together for the benefit of the whole. In the meantime, though, there are some practical questions that I think need answering.

[Lord Eames (CB)]

My Lords, I too welcome the way in which these statutory instruments have been introduced to the House and welcome their gist, particularly in relation to inshore fishing. However, I will press the Minister on the question of the fishing industry in Northern Ireland. Once more we are reminded that the land border that has been between Northern Ireland and the Republic is soon to become the border between the EU and the UK. Because of that, there are special sensitivities, stretching into fishing among other industries, of which we must be aware.

I ask the Minister to address the issue of the relationship between fishing in what will then be the EU but is today the Republic of Ireland, and fishing from County Down and County Antrim in Northern Ireland. The reason I raise this is that recently there was an incident where two vessels from Northern Ireland ended up in police custody in the EU/Republic of Ireland. That was a misunderstanding, but it shows how easily the sensitivities over the way in which our waters are controlled and policed can boil over into actual incidents.

What consultation has there been, particularly with the Irish Republic, on the question of policing the Irish Sea waters? This issue is particularly concerning the fishing industry in Northern Ireland at the moment as we move towards Brexit. The detailed information that the SI contains can encourage confidence, but it indicates that there can be a great difference between the written word and practice. That applies equally to the fishing industry in Scotland so far as the Irish Sea is concerned.

I ask the Minister: can we expect real sensitivity on the question of the Northern Irish fishing industry after Brexit under the terms of this SI, given the proximity of the EU to the Irish Sea situation? This is not just an academic issue; it is one of deep concern to an industry that is already under great pressure.

[Lord Deben (Con)]

My Lords, I am the longest-serving Fisheries Minister. I am therefore very concerned to intervene in this debate.

I have always been surprised by the degree to which people talk about the common fisheries policy as if there were no need for a common policy. The policy may not be the best one that we could have, but the truth is that even after these SIs are passed the idea that we can take control of what we call “our” waters is just not true. Many of those waters, irrespective of the common fisheries policy, are shared. If you are only 22 miles from France, it is not surprising that many of these waters are shared and you need a common policy. These SIs fly in the face of any sense because we are not going to have a national policy except in the areas where, largely, we have already had one. The noble and right reverend Lord talked about inshore fishermen. We have been able to deal with the inshore fishermen for a very long time, even though many of them blame their situation on the common fisheries policy when it should be blamed on the British Government under various different parties.

A common policy is essential because, first, we have shared fishing grounds and, secondly, we have shared stock. Even if the fish happen to be in our waters at a particular time, as my noble friend Lady McIntosh pointed out, they may well have come from other waters. They do not carry flags. The fact is that unless you have a common policy about fish conservation, you find yourself in a very dangerous position, because one lot of fishermen can say, “Well, I’m not going to conserve if the other lot aren’t”—and of course all fishermen believe that other fishermen are not. Let us be perfectly clear about that point: if you have been Fisheries Minister for as long as I was, you discover that that is the case. I remember a man in my own constituency, in a small fishing village of about seven or eight boats in all, to whom, after a meeting when they were complaining about everything, I said: “I thought you were going to complain about that Belgian trawler”. “Ah”, he said, “them Belgian trawlers I can put up with. It’s Lowestoft men I can’t stand”.

The truth is that there is an ability between different fishing communities to find their neighbours not terribly helpful, so if the Government think they are going to have an easy time, I have to warn my noble friend that they are not. They can no longer blame the common fisheries policy; they will have to accept responsibility. However, they will not have the power because they will not be able to control the stocks; nor will they control the areas in which we have joint arrangements.

Historically, we dealt with that. There were a lot of fish and, if someone got in your way, a marlinspike was no doubt used. We then had a more sensible policy and we are now trying to move ourselves towards some way of relating to our neighbours. The noble and right reverend Lord from the north of Ireland made a very important point about the closeness, the lines and how you organise this. I am unhappy about this statutory instrument because it is another example of us trying to do something which is manifestly worse than what we had before.