Covert Human Intelligence Sources (Criminal Conduct) Bill

Debate between Lord Duncan of Springbank and Baroness Ritchie of Downpatrick

2nd reading & 2nd reading (Hansard) & 2nd reading (Hansard): House of Lords
Wednesday 11th November 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Ritchie of Downpatrick (Non-Afl) [V]]

My Lords, I offer my congratulations to the three noble Lords, including the Minister, on making their maiden speeches today.

I am afraid I cannot give the Bill approval because it provides people employed by the Government with immunity for carrying out murder and heinous crimes. In fact, it would give statutory effect to legalised criminal offences committed by informants, provided that MI5, the Police Service of Northern Ireland or other UK law enforcement bodies have authorised the informant to commit the crime in advance. I understand that this is known as criminal conduct authorisation.

There are also no express limits set out in the Bill to prohibit informants’ participation in particular crimes that would constitute human rights violations such as murder, torture including punishment beatings, punishment shootings and kidnapping, or acting as agents provocateurs. I think back to the use of agents in paramilitary murders in Northern Ireland. This goes to the very heart of the legacy issues that the Government are currently considering and their very unhelpful Statement of 18 March.

There is a concern that, in addition to criminal conduct authorisations making criminal acts by informants “lawful for all purposes”, the extraterritorial provisions of Section 27(3) of the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act 2000 could also apply, namely that:

“The conduct that may be authorised under this Part includes conduct outside the United Kingdom.”


This would mean, for example, that MI5 could authorise from its Belfast base a serious criminal offence to be conducted by a paramilitary informant in the Republic of Ireland. That offence would be unlawful under UK law but, clearly, this would not change an act being a criminal offence—[Inaudible.] The noble Lord, Lord Dubs, referred to the murder of Mr Finucane in all these regards. I must ask the Minister some questions. Were the Irish Government consulted on the content of this legislation and on the fact that this proposed activity could take place in their jurisdiction? Were they asked if this would impact on their own police service—the Garda Síochána? Did the Prime Minister discuss this with An Taoiseach when he met him in Hillsborough earlier this year?

It is important that significant amendments are made to this Bill to ensure that the UK’s prosecuting authorities can independently review crimes—[Inaudible.] —and remove the power for MI5 and other public authorities to brand crime “lawful for all purposes”. I cannot accept the extraterritorial nature of this because it places an impact on the bipartisan rule of Britain and Ireland in terms of Northern Ireland.

[The Deputy Speaker (Lord Duncan of Springbank) (Con)]

I understand that we are still not able to return to the noble Baroness, Lady Whitaker; once her microphone is corrected, we will attempt to do so. We will move straight on to the noble Lord, Lord Sikka.

Direct Payments Ceilings Regulations 2020

Debate between Lord Duncan of Springbank and Baroness Ritchie of Downpatrick

Wednesday 1st July 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Ritchie of Downpatrick (Non-Afl) [V]]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for the considered way in which he has presented these regulations. After all, they enable those payments to be continued for this year to the end of the transition period. Coming from Northern Ireland, where we benefited considerably through the common agricultural policy, I regret leaving the EU—but I face the fact, and have accepted the fact, that we are leaving.

The provenance and sustainability of the food we eat are important to us all. That is why it is so important that all legislation surrounding the agricultural sector is robust and fit for purpose. We need to legislate to continue these payments for this year. The farming industry is also rightly looking forward to next year and beyond, by which time we will have left the EU. Our farmers face uncertainty and have a degree of concern about that, and we have a duty to address their concerns.

The future payments regime must respect the needs of farmers and sustainable production. It has to address climate change and allow our farming sector to do its job and produce the food we all eat. The noble Baroness, Lady McIntosh of Pickering, referred to the need to support active farmers. I suppose the way to do that is by supporting sustainable production in any future payments regime.

There is also a need for food security and to ensure accessibility to supply as we still grapple with the problems caused by Covid-19. We have to think about what the Agriculture Bill—which we will discuss in Committee next week—will provide for us from next year onwards and how that payment regime will play out. As I said before, it is important that the payments are based on sustainable production and ensure a steady and accessible supply of food. Reporting on food security should be done annually, not every five years as suggested in the Bill. I ask the Minister to address, in advance of Committee, his view and the Government’s of changing from every five years to annually.

There should also be scope for Ministers to carry over any money left unspent at the end of a budget year. Does the Minister agree? What steps will the Government take to ensure that any financial assistance scheme encourages sustainable food production? What plans does the Minister have in that regard?

I believe that farmers throughout the United Kingdom need to be treated fairly. Disparities in farming incomes must not be accentuated by the availability, or otherwise, of direct support payments or equivalent forms of financial assistance across the UK. Like other noble Lords, I want to hear about the degree of collaboration with the devolved institutions and how that will play out in terms of future agricultural policy, our future agricultural regime and, above all, payments to farmers—including whether it will support food production or some other means within farming.

Also, what is the possibility of using genetics in sheep and beef production and linking that to climate change?

[The Deputy Speaker (Lord Duncan of Springbank) (Con)]

I understand that the audio of the noble Duke, the Duke of Montrose, may be a little shaky, but we will try our best.