Hong Kong

Lord Dubs Excerpts

Tuesday 21st July 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon [V]]

My Lords, obviously there have been elections even this year at local level. We continue to impress on the Hong Kong authorities and the Chinese authorities the need to ensure that one country, two systems is sustained, maintained and, indeed, strengthened. However, recent events have indicated otherwise and we continue to lobby both Administrations in this respect, including protecting those people who do not qualify for BNO status.

[Lord Dubs (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, the Minister will be aware of the statement by the Chinese ambassador a few days ago that we were interfering in China’s internal affairs. Will the Minister make it clear that this is entirely a breach of the Sino-British agreement and that it is not a breach of Chinese internal affairs to stick by the terms of an international treaty? Will he ensure that the widest number of countries take our position of understanding and give us support?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon [V]]

My Lords, I totally agree with the noble Lord. The agreement on one country, two systems that we signed with the Chinese authorities is registered with the UN. China is a P5 member and has international obligations. Therefore, we believe that standing up for the rights of Hong Kong nationals as well as BNOs is absolutely the right thing to do. I assure the noble Lord that we are working with international partners to ensure that we get broad support for the United Kingdom’s position. Indeed, as we saw recently at the Human Rights Council, that is happening.

Global Human Rights Sanctions Regime

Lord Dubs Excerpts

Thursday 9th July 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, in certain areas and with certain regimes around the world, it is appropriate that we look at sanctions overall. However, the primary purpose of these sanctions is not to punish a population or a country, but to target sanctions specifically on those who abuse global human rights. Those who usurp the rights of others should be held to account.

[Lord Dubs (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, may I press the Minister a bit more about applying sanctions on a wider basis than by one country? Does he agree that if sanctions are agreed across a range of countries, they are many times more effective than simply a unilateral step taken by Britain in the hope that other countries will follow suit? Secondly, whereas we could all suggest the names of people who should be on the list, I am a little surprised that the Salisbury poisoners were not on it, given that we know who they are and exactly what they did.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, I totally agree with the noble Lord’s first point and we will continue to work with key partners. On his second point, I am sure he noted that we included certain people, including those responsible for the human rights abuse and ultimate death of Sergei Magnitsky. That is what has driven this agenda and I pay tribute to him. The noble Lord raised other issues and other countries. They are all very much part and parcel of our consideration. As I said, without speculating, I am sure that we will look at future designations across the piece.

Hong Kong: Human Rights

Lord Dubs Excerpts

Thursday 4th June 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Dubs (Lab)]

My Lords, I am privileged to have been a friend of Martin Lee for quite some years. He is one of the most resolute defenders of democracy on behalf of the people of Hong Kong. It is clear that this new security law goes entirely against the Sino-British agreement; I believe that Deng Xiaoping would have opposed it. He supported the original “one country, two systems” approach. I remember meeting some students from China in Hong Kong. They told me that they regretted having to return to Beijing because they so valued the democracy under which they lived while they were in Hong Kong.

I believe that the majority of people in Hong Kong are against this new security law. The Hong Kong Bar Association has come out resolutely against it. It is a breach of all international agreements. Surely the key to this is international unity at all levels. We should tell the Chinese that we are totally opposed to it. We should also value the BBC for the contribution it is making in broadcasting to the people of Hong Kong.

Covid-19: Refugee Camps

Lord Dubs Excerpts

Wednesday 20th May 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, of course we are aware specifically of the plight of the Palestinian refugees. The noble Earl will be aware that the United Kingdom has increased its support for UNRWA, and we continue to support that agency for the vital support it provides to Palestinian refugees.

[Lord Dubs (Lab)]

My Lords, the Minister will be aware of the “Panorama” programme earlier this week showing the conditions in some of the Greek refugee camps. He will have seen that, for example, in Moria, social distancing is impossible: if the virus were to get into that camp it would be unstoppable. The implications would be disastrous for the people in the camp, but equally disastrous for Greece and the rest of Europe, because it would spread from that camp further afield, so it is in our interest to help them. There are very few washing facilities there, and no social distancing is possible.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, the noble Lord is quite right to raise the issue of Greece. The UK is one of the world’s leading refugee resettlement states, resettling more refugees than any country in Europe. Specifically, we are offering Greece technical support to meet the challenges it currently faces and we regularly liaise with Greece on the challenges and burdens it is currently having to endure in relation to refugees within the country.

Air Quality and Emissions

Lord Dubs Excerpts

Tuesday 19th May 2020 Lords Chamber

Asked by

[Lord Dubs]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what has been the improvement in air quality, emissions and other environmental indicators since the COVID-19 restrictions were introduced.

The Question was considered in a Virtual Proceeding via video call.

[The Minister of State, Department for the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, Foreign and Commonwealth Office and Department for International Development (Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park) (Con)]

My Lords, nitrogen dioxide pollution at the roadside has almost halved during the lockdown period as a result of reduced emissions from traffic, with much smaller reductions observed for particulate matters in urban areas. Emissions of greenhouse gases and air pollutants from energy use and transport are likely to be much lower than in normal times, on account of reduced energy demand and much lower road traffic estimates.

[Lord Dubs (Lab)]

My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for that, and of course these are positive benefits to the environment. Does the Minister agree that as we move into economic recovery from the pandemic we cannot go back to business as usual? Does he agree that we must seek to benefit from the gains to the environment, in particular with regards to air pollution and climate change, and that we should not support industries unless they make a commitment to meet the higher standards in respect of the environment? What is the Government’s policy as we move forward?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park]

While the world is rightly focused on tackling the immediate threat of coronavirus, the global challenges of climate change and biodiversity loss, which in many respects overshadow and dwarf the threat of coronavirus, have not gone away. As we rebuild our economy in response to the pandemic and make decisions about reconstruction, it is vital that we make decisions which provide long-term resilience and sustainability, and that we avoid decisions that will end up imposing big costs on future generations.

The Government are absolutely committed to being world leaders in tackling the environmental crisis we face. We are going to continue our ambitious legislative agenda through our landmark Environment Bill, Fisheries Bill and Agriculture Bill, all of which combined will help us deliver on our 25-year environmental plan. The noble Lord will have heard remarks and commitments by the Secretary of State for Transport just a couple of days ago, in which he announced a record level of funding for active travel—alternatives to car use and even public transport use.

Refugee Crisis: Greece and Turkey

Lord Dubs Excerpts

Tuesday 10th March 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

Having assumed wider responsibilities in DfID, I know that in 2019-20 we allocated £118 million for the crisis in the north-west of Syria. We continue to support that. The noble Lord rightly asked about the continuation of funding. As I said in response to a previous question, the additional £89 million we have announced reflects the changing needs on the ground. We will continue to review the situation and keep in mind whatever support we can extend, be it medical, shelter or support for vulnerable girls and women. That will continue to be a priority for this Government.

[Lord Dubs (Lab)]

My Lords, does the Minister agree that the whole world is looking on in shocked horror at people on the Greek-Turkish border being treated as political pawns in the conflict? Will he confirm that, recently, the Greek Government appealed to other countries to share the responsibly for refugees, particularly those who have fled the conflict and arrived on the Greek islands? What has been the British Government’s response to that request?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

The noble Lord raises an important point. We have sought to assist, and I have referred to some of the support we have provided directly to Greece, including technical support for the islands impacted by the refugee crisis. We have also called on both Governments to continue their dialogue on this issue. In response to his specific question about taking our share of the burden, the noble Lord will be aware of the announcement of a new resettlement scheme, which will take 5,000 refugees this year.

Falkland Islands: Landmines

Lord Dubs Excerpts

Tuesday 8th October 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

A joint report was done back in 2007, to which the Argentinians contributed, but we are mindful that the sovereignty of the Falkland Islands is that of the United Kingdom. We have taken the lead and sole responsibility for all continued mine clearance.

[Lord Dubs (Lab)]

My Lords, I understand from information I got from people doing mine clearance some years ago that the difficulty in the Falklands is the nature of the terrain, or the earth. Some of the unexploded ordnance has sunk so deep into the earth that it is very difficult to clear, which is one reason we have not been able to achieve 100% clearance. I want to use my question to widen the discussion a little. There are so many areas in the world where unexploded ordnance is causing serious risk to ordinary people long after the conflict has ceased. Can the Minister say a little about what we are doing to support MAG and other organisations that are doing this valuable work internationally?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

First, on the earlier point raised by the noble Lord, and made earlier, I agree with him: the terrain has proved challenging. However, we are confident that, with the Ottawa convention and the timeline set for 2024, we will complete all the demining in the Falkland Islands. On the broader issue, we are very much committed. His Royal Highness’s recent visit reflects our continued commitment and we have allocated a further £100 million to this primary objective of clearing mines around the world.

International Development Committee: Burma Visas

Lord Dubs Excerpts

Wednesday 28th February 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I agree with the noble Lord. I express the sentiments that my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary expressed: there is need for a real recognition. While he raised that matter in no uncertain, blunt terms, there is undoubtedly still a real denial from the civilian authorities. And yes, regrettably, for a lady who championed human rights, we now see the worst kind of abuse of human rights in the very country she now administers.

[Lord Dubs (Lab)]

My Lords, it is shocking that the crisis of the Rohingya has been going on for 25 years or longer. I visited Cox’s Bazar before I became a Member of this House in the early 1990s. Are we the only country against which the Burmese Government have taken the kind of action they have in relation to our Select Committee, or have other countries also been discriminated against by the Burmese authorities?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I cannot speak on the specific point of other countries but the United Nations was repeatedly refused entry to Burma. We have worked directly with the UN and it was partly our efforts that ensured the access that the UN agencies and representatives have received. However, I regret deeply that that access is very limited.

European Union Referendum Bill

Lord Dubs Excerpts

Tuesday 13th October 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Dubs (Lab)]

My Lords, those of us who travel to other European countries are normally asked this question, which I was asked last week: what is going on with your country and the EU? We do not understand. So I thought I would save the Hansard for this debate and send it to them, because I am not sure I can answer the question any better now than I could then. People are puzzled and do not understand why we have this odd attitude to the EU. Most of them think we are mad, frankly, and it is very hard to disabuse them of that.

I was thinking, in preparing for this debate, of something that Roy Jenkins said many years ago. In a way I hoped it would be out of date, but it is not. He said that our problem was that we had not really come to terms with the end of empire. He said it a long time ago, but there is still an element of that running through our attitudes to our membership of the EU.

Let me be specific about some points in the Bill. I am delighted that Members of this House are going to have a chance to vote in the referendum. If it is worth voting on our position in the EU in a referendum, it is also worth while having a vote in general elections, but that is for another day.

I used to think that giving 16 and 17 year-olds the vote was not a good idea, but I have come to realise that I was wrong. It is a healthy change, and I very much hope that this House will vote an amendment into the Bill to give the vote to 16 and 17 year-olds. We will then see what the Government do when it gets back to the other end.

The noble Lord, Lord Forsyth, said earlier in the debate that, even if Scotland votes to remain in the EU and the rest of the country does not, that would not effect a referendum in Scotland. I really do not think that would be the case, although I bow to his greater knowledge of Scotland. If Scotland votes one way and England and Wales vote the other, the pressures for a further referendum in Scotland will increase and the likely outcome will be less certain than last time.

I turn to one or two specifics on justice and judicial co-operation. If we are not members of the EU, what is going to happen to the European arrest warrant and to our participation in Europol and Eurojust? We might lose those chances, because why should the EU countries go along with us if we say, “We are leaving you, but please can we stay part of this or that”? I think they would probably say, “Go to hell”. Why should they do so? Yet things such as the European arrest warrant are essential for our security. It enables us to get people who are a threat to this country back to Britain to face justice. Although the EAW may have some faults, it is essentially a measure that protects British interests. As crime is increasingly international, we need Europe-wide co-operation; that can be achieved only if we are members of the EU.

I think it was John Hume who said some years ago that the EU was the most successful peace process in world history. That is absolutely right and, before we knock the EU, we should be respectful of what it has done. Our membership of it has contributed to that achievement of peace in Europe. I do not believe that these things are inevitable; the cohesion and sense of solidarity engendered by the EU has very much helped European peace.

I want to spend a few minutes talking about the implications of a British exit on relations between Britain and Ireland, and the specific implications for Northern Ireland. The Irish Government clearly kept out of the referendum debate in Scotland—that was for us and not for them—but this time, I think, they see it a little differently. When Mr Charlie Flanagan, the Irish Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade, spoke recently at Chatham House he referred to the constructive role that Ireland can play in the EU debate in the UK. He said:

“We have resolved, despite being respectful of the democratic process here, to make our voice heard. That means … a role that is supportive of the UK, our most important EU strategic partner, in helping it to achieve reasonable reform objectives. But a role that is equally respectful of our 26 other friends and partners within the European Union”.

He went on to say that,

“it is crucial that every effort is made to engage in debate, to provide information, to clarify, to explain”.

Mr Flanagan then drew attention to the importance that Britain’s EU membership had for Ireland. He indicated that he wanted,

“the UK in the EU because our Union is stronger”,

because of Britain’s participation in it. He said that Ireland benefits from Britain’s membership and that,

“it reinforces … the … bond between our two countries”.

I hope that the millions of people of Irish origin in Britain will take note of what the Irish Government say and vote accordingly in the referendum. Those 3 million or so votes would make quite a difference to the outcome.

I want to say a little about the economic and political aspects of our relationship with Ireland. The UK exports more to Ireland than it does to China, India and Brazil combined—a pretty formidable point. The UK is Ireland’s most important market; the value of Irish exports to the UK is at its highest level ever. In fact, Ireland is the UK’s fifth-largest market, with more than £17 billion in British goods and services exported to Ireland in 2012. About 200,000 people in Ireland are employed as a result of Ireland’s exports to the UK, while UK jobs resulting from exports to Ireland are estimated at more than 200,000. The UK is the third-largest investor in Ireland, after the United States and Germany. These seem to be important facts. The Eurosceptics will say that nothing would change if we left the EU. I think it would, as do the Irish Government, and the close bond we have would be lessened. As far as tourism is concerned, 3 million British people visited Ireland in 2013, while the year before about 2.5 million Irish people visited Britain. That is very important.

However, let me turn to Northern Ireland. The EU had a very positive influence on the peace negotiations there. The EU and the United States together made it possible and created the conditions which enabled us to proceed to the Good Friday agreement. Without the EU’s active involvement and support, things might not have moved forward as they did. We are talking about both the political and economic benefits to Northern Ireland. I think the accepted view is that the EU has been a force for good for everyone in every community, right across Northern Ireland.

If the United Kingdom were to leave the EU, the border between Northern Ireland and the Republic would be the EU border. We worked very hard to get rid of that border so that it is effectively not there—you do not see it at all if you drive from North to South—but who is to say what pressures might then be put on that crucial border between Northern Ireland and the Republic? It would be unthinkable if, having worked very hard to get rid of them, there had be some sort of mechanisms on that border. But something would have to be negotiated, as would the wider common travel area. The Government and the people who want us to get out have said nothing about all these things, but they are pretty important.

I have talked briefly about the situation as regards Ireland and Northern Ireland, which are important aspects of the total. I believe that a British exit would be a disaster.

European Union Referendum Bill

Lord Dubs Excerpts

Tuesday 13th October 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Dubs (Lab)]

Just to have the record straight, it was Gordon Brown who kept us out of the euro.

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean]

That is exactly what I said. The noble Lord will be speaking later in the debate and I urge him to listen to some of these arguments in the hope that he may be converted as a result.

Of course, the other person who was there on display was Danny Alexander. I am told on good authority—I have read it in the newspapers—that Mr Brown and Mr Blair, and indeed John Major and Danny Alexander, have been offered places in this House and have turned them down. Instead, they prefer to argue outside Parliament. Is that because they realise what all of us in this House realise, that Parliament is becoming increasingly marginalised and what we decide here does not matter because it is done by unelected bureaucrats in Brussels? That is the most important point that my noble friend Lord Lawson made. This is an argument about accountability, the authority of Parliament and Britons’ ability to take decisions for themselves.

I absolutely agree with my noble friend Lord Lawson about the scare stories that came out around the time of joining the single currency. Do your Lordships remember? Frankfurt was going to become the financial centre of Europe if we did not join the single currency. My noble friend Lord Tugendhat talked about the Scottish referendum. In the Scottish referendum we started off with only 28% in favour of independence. We ended up with 45% being in favour of independence because we stupidly ran a campaign in which we told the Scots that they were too small, too wee and too poor to be able to be independent. We threatened them with scare stories. Far be it from me to give advice to those who wish to stay in Europe but if they campaign in this way they will drive people into the other camp. British people are not going to be told that they are too little and too lacking in enterprise and ability to be able to make their way in a global world, where they see a European Union which cannot even manage its own borders, let alone its own money.

Very disappointingly for those who wish us to stay in the European Union, we heard that the Labour Party was unanimous—it is amazing it is unanimous on anything—at its party conference on the idea that it would vote to stay in regardless of the negotiations. We heard the same from the Liberal Back Benches. What kind of negotiation is it that you go into battle waving a white flag? It is extraordinary that they should say, “Whatever you agree to, we are going to vote for it”. I have never heard such nonsense.

Turning to the Bill, my noble friend very kindly agreed that she had given an undertaking in cross-party meetings throughout the House. Might I suggest that those undertakings given by her and Ministers in the other place should be put in the Bill so that there is no doubt whatever about the Government’s commitment? I look forward to hearing the arguments against that in Committee. One of the most important was that we would have four months’ notice of a campaign which would last 10 weeks. I also urge my noble friend to consider producing a White Paper setting out the results of this negotiation, whatever it is about. I know that the ever closer union features in it. I voted for the Maastricht treaty—none of us is perfect. One thing that persuaded me to vote for it was that John Major was able to change the terms and get us various opt-outs, substituting “ever closer union” for “federal union”. So those words were put into the treaty by us to mitigate it, and we are now told that getting those words out of the treaty will somehow deliver a new paradise. It is nonsense.

Clause 6 effectively gives the Government the power by regulation to reinstate purdah; it enables them by regulation to change the rules regarding purdah, which could get us back to a situation where purdah did not apply. In the Bill as it stands, purdah does not apply to Scotland or the European Union. So are we going to have Nicola Sturgeon and Alex Salmond campaigning, using public money in Scotland but not in the rest of the United Kingdom? That loophole needs to be dealt with, as does the loophole that purdah applies only to publications and not to government advice.

Finally, on the subject of Scotland, can we scotch the myth that if Britain votes to leave the European Union, somehow the United Kingdom will dissolve? All the evidence is that the Scots follow the English on this matter. If Britain votes to leave the European Union, Scotland will. Those who say that it will precipitate a referendum should look at what Nicola Sturgeon is saying this very week—that a referendum on Scotland’s independence is inevitable. Once it was “once in a generation”, and then “if there is a change of circumstances”; it is now, “it is inevitable”—and it is inevitable, she says, when she thinks that she can win it. So let us leave Scotland and the United Kingdom out of this and as a United Kingdom work together for Britain’s interests, which do not lie in remaining in this failed state that is the European Union.