Higher Education: Funding and Student Finance

Debate between Lord Desai and Baroness Wilcox

Wednesday 3rd November 2010 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Wilcox]

This is a big subject, my Lords, and I want to answer as many of the questions of the noble Lord, Lord Triesman, as possible. I thank him for his comments and for his questions on what is a very important subject. I want to avoid turning this into a yah-boo-sucks time; I do not think that that sits well in this House. I could talk about the fact that the Leader of the Labour party and his supporters do not speak from the same hymn sheet, but I do not think it is the right moment to be doing things like that. Instead, I shall try to answer some of the questions the noble Lord has asked me.

We feel that the Government are placing universities on a more stable footing and allowing institutions to flourish. Our universities, as we know, are internationally renowned, but many of the strongest have told us that they need further investment in order to maintain their position, and so it is that we are taking this brave new stance, based, of course, upon a piece of work commissioned from the noble Lord, Lord Browne, by the noble Lord, Lord Mandelson, and the Labour party, and supported by us at the time. We are basing this upon six principles that he outlined.

The noble Lord talked about the arts, humanities and social sciences. Does ceasing their funding mean killing them and sabotaging some of the key sectors to drive us out of recession? We do not think that we are cutting the income of these departments. They are just going to have the money flow into them from a different route; it is going to be directed by the choices made by students. Those courses will still be there; they will be well promoted, and we hope that the young at school will better understand what choices are available to them, so that they bring the money with them. It will flow into those departments, as it always has; it will just be coming from a different direction.

I was asked why we are being less generous than the noble Lord, Lord Browne, for people earning over £35,000. Is this not another hit on the squeezed middle? We are committed to ensuring that higher education is affordable for everyone. This is a system that provides adequate support for students from low-income and middle-income families, but is also financially sustainable for the nation. We will give more maintenance grant to those with household incomes up to £37,000 and make available some non-repayable maintenance grants for those with household incomes between £25,000 and £42,000. This means that, compared with now, there will be more overall maintenance support to those with household incomes up to £45,000.

This is a generous package that benefits the vast majority. More than half a million students, as I have already said, will be eligible for non-repayable grants for living costs, as they are now, and almost a million students will be eligible for more overall maintenance support.

It was asked, given that over half of undergraduates are women, what the differential impact of today’s announcement would be on men and women. It is no pleasure to any of us to know that women still earn less than men do in the marketplace, and I hope that we will be able, in the time that we are the Government of this country, to help that to change. Because of that pay differential, women are less likely to be high earners. They will pay less and their repayments will be frozen when they are not earning—when they are having children and taking time off—and because of the long repayment time, the chances are that after 30 years they will not have finished paying and therefore it will just fade.

What about loans from Muslim students who believe that it is wrong to take out student loans because they attract an element of interest, and the payment of interest is against Islamic Sharia law? We want a single student loan system that can meet the needs of the majority of students, of course. The Government heavily subsidise the student support system and will continue to do so; we do not make a profit from student support. In circumstances where students feel that loans offered by the Government are against their law, students can take out a Sharia-compliant loan offered by one of the commercial banks at the moment, such as the Islamic Bank of England, Lloyds TSB and HSBC. I have spoken to my Muslim friends about this and they do not seem as exercised about this as maybe we think they are, because they do not see that there is a profit element in it to cause them great distress. I hope that I have been able to answer that question.

I shall see if we have any more answers; it is easier if we can get more answered now. I was asked if we will do what the noble Lord, Lord Browne, says and allow private providers to access public funding. We want to remove any undue barriers and make it easier for private providers to enter the market. We are committed to a level playing field for all providers. This will mean more and better choices for students and better value for money through new and potentially innovative and lower-cost approaches to teaching. We will consult further on this through a higher education White Paper this winter.

I doubt that I have answered all the noble Lord’s questions, but I will write to him with any answers that I have not been able to give now. No doubt other noble Lords in the Chamber are looking forward to asking questions that I hope I will be able to answer on my feet; if not, of course I will write.

[Lord Desai]

My Lords, I welcome this—

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[Baroness Wilcox]

I am very grateful for my noble friend’s warm words. She has asked questions that I hope I will be able to answer for her. Middle income is obviously a worry. Yes, she is right; it will not be paid off by the end of the 30-year period. It will lapse.

As for how these changes will affect international students, the Government have made it clear that they want to continue to attract the brightest and best international students to the UK. EU students have a right to be treated equally as regards tuition costs. UK students benefit from the tuition support available in other EU countries.

Support for tuition has been available for EU students since 2006-07. This support is paid directly to the higher education institution not to the student. The overwhelming majority of overseas borrowers are honest and want to repay the loans that they have received. Generally, European Union students are young and mobile and, when they graduate, will have a significantly higher earning potential because of their UK higher education. We are obviously concerned that, if any students are due to repay and are not doing so, the SLC will be robust in tracking down the borrowers to get back the money that they owe. We will make sure that that is done.

Effective collection across the EU is underpinned by EC regulations, which allow the SLC to obtain judgments in UK courts that can be enforced by courts in other EU countries. We will use this whenever necessary. It is heartening to know that, generally speaking, the European Union students pay their bills. As to the other question, I will come back to my noble friend.

[Lord Desai]

I welcome the fact that the Government have gone half way to accepting my suggestion that they should not have a fixed limit of £6,000. They have not gone to £10,000, however, as I suggested. Is it not better for the Government not to have an upper ceiling at all and to allow universities to charge differentially for different courses? This would make allocations for universities easier. It would also make the Government’s job easier because otherwise there will be far too much rationing and control of universities. That will lead to some terrible mistakes, especially in subjects such as the humanities, which could be taught for much less than the kind of fees that the Government want to charge.

[Baroness Wilcox]

I wondered whether the noble Lord, Lord Desai, would ask why we rejected uncapped tuition costs. I wondered if the noble Lord, Lord Desai, would ask this. The noble Lord, Lord Browne, made important recommendations about the structure and level of graduate contributions. We have considered them carefully. However, on balance, we have concerns that uncapped costs would put off some applicants, particularly those from lower-income families. For UK and EU undergraduates, we are proposing a threshold of £6,000 for graduate contributions, with an upper limit of £9,000. All universities and colleges will be expected to publish a standard set of information about all the courses that they provide. Universities may set whatever levels they consider best meet their individual circumstances, with £6,000 being the level above which additional requirements on access will be set. There will be an upper level of £9,000.