European Political Community Summit

Debate between Lord Cormack and Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon

Tuesday 12th December 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

On the noble Earl’s second point, this is a new organisation which was put forward by the French President and we supported it. I agree with him on his first point as well: that we have seen the convening of leaders. It is not just the formal agenda—if there is such a thing—because this is an informal meeting. The noble Lord, Lord Purvis, alluded to illegal migration, and at the last summit Prime Minister Sunak and Prime Minister Meloni were able to meet to tackle some of the key issues that impact not just our country but Europe as a whole.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

To follow up the question just asked by the noble Earl, will the Prime Minister be conducting a series of bilateral conversations and, if he is doing that, will he include at the top of the list the new Prime Minister of Poland?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I am not the diary manager for the Prime Minister—but you never know with the extension of mandates, roles and briefs. In all seriousness, I can speak quite specifically, as I know that my noble friend the Foreign Secretary is very seized of the importance of strengthening our relationship with our key European partners, and I am sure he will be focused on the agenda issues of artificial intelligence and the war in Ukraine. These are important issues not for our country alone, not just for Europe but for the world as a whole.

Occupied Palestinian Territories: Humanitarian Situation

Debate between Lord Cormack and Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon

Thursday 9th November 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

I can assure the noble Lord. I have been a Minister for a while, but I will share with noble Lords that this is probably one of the most challenging and toughest not only briefs but occasions when I am standing before your Lordships’ House, speaking about what is currently happening and the shocking events in Israel on 7 October. Subsequently, we have seen what is being endured by innocent Palestinian civilians in Gaza—this has to stop. I mentioned this being sustained in my opening comments; I will not turn my back, and I hope that noble Lords will not turn theirs. There will not be a short-term solution; this will require long-term focus. Looking around this Chamber, I am sure that whoever stands in my place in the months and years to come will also reflect the importance of finding a lasting solution—it is not papering over the cracks, as the noble Lord said, because this will erupt again. We need to ensure that terrorist organisations such as Hamas are not in governance positions, which is why we support the Palestinian Authority. Ultimately, as we, the Americans, the Europeans and the Gulf states have said, sustainable peace can be achieved only when there are two states, Israel and Palestine, living side by side—not just independent but ultimately, we hope, learning that coexistence is the way forward.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, we are all grateful to the Minister for how he is handling this, and he has the admiration of the House. We all have to bear in mind that Hamas has ultimate responsibility for every drop of blood shed over the last month, but we also have to remember that Israel is a mature democracy, and it is very important that a mature democracy exercises its power in such a way that the innocent are not massacred.

Ukraine: Post-conflict Reconstruction

Debate between Lord Cormack and Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon

Thursday 7th September 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

First of all, I thank the noble Lord again for underlining the strong support of His Majesty’s Opposition. I have been very clear on the international stage that we speak as one—and I pay tribute to the noble Lord, Lord Coaker, in that respect as well as to my noble friend Lady Goldie, who will respond to a debate on this issue shortly. On the issue of sanctions, I agree with the noble Lord, and we are supportive of those actions. More than 60% of Mr Putin’s war chest has been immobilised—that is £275 billion-worth. The end intent, with all legal considerations taken account of, is that it should be repurposed and service in rebuilding the infrastructure that Russia has destroyed in Ukraine.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, is it not important to recognise that among the destruction have been many historic buildings? It is very important that the Ukrainians are able to do what the Poles did in Warsaw—although under a very unhappy Administration. Is it not crucial that we give as much technical advice as we can, through bodies such as English Heritage, so that they can rebuild their patrimony?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I take on board what my noble friend has said. I assure him that we are working to ensure that the infrastructure within Ukraine is developed in a more resilient fashion. We are providing technical support. We are working on energy infrastructure. My noble friend makes an important point about cultural heritage. We are working with bodies such as UNESCO to ensure that, first and foremost, we protect those heritage sites and that, where they have been destroyed, they are rebuilt.

Darfur: Risk of Genocide

Debate between Lord Cormack and Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon

Tuesday 18th July 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, as I have already said, we are working very closely with the prosecutor. As the noble Lord will be aware, various avenues are being pursued in Sudan to resolve this conflict. The first thing is having a ceasefire. We are working with regional counterparts in IGAD and the African Union. We are also working as part of the quad, including with the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, the UAE and the US, and of course we have troika responsibilities historically to Sudan. All of these avenues are focused first and foremost on stopping this conflict and, secondly, as the noble Lord articulated, ensuring that these crimes are fully investigated and that there shall be no impunity for those who have committed them.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, we are all in the debt of the noble Lord, Lord Alton, for raising this matter. Is it not deeply disturbing that the Security Council, mentioned by the noble Lords, Lord Alton and Lord Collins, has two permanent members which are themselves implicated in crimes against humanity, and that it is very possible that those could be defined as genocide as well.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, importantly, since the establishment of the United Nations the UN Security Council has sought to provide a forum. It continues, notwithstanding the challenges we face from certain members, to play an important role and to provide a way to address the issues of conflicts present and to avert future conflicts. I hear what noble Lords say, and of course we pursue all issues and concerns raised by any member of the international community and any member state in a forceful manner through bilateral representations, and we address them through multilateral fora.

Hong Kong

Debate between Lord Cormack and Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon

Thursday 13th July 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, I am sure that we are all grateful to my noble friend for bringing his customary thoroughness to the answers he has just given. I declare an interest in that I led the last CPA delegation to Hong Kong before the handover, and two of my grandchildren were born in Hong Kong—my son was serving there.

I am deeply troubled by one thing in particular: the position of the judges. I completely accept what my noble friend said about the independence of the judiciary, and I make no criticism whatever of those eminent judges who still function, to a degree, in Hong Kong. But will my noble friend perhaps think of convening a meeting with them? The fact is that they are lending a veneer of respectability to a dire situation. All our hopes were high at the handover in 1997, and they remained so for many years after. But there is now a sinister repression in Hong Kong that completely abrogates the treaty that China and we agreed to. The time has now come when either China has to accept that treaty again or those who are inadvertently giving a veneer of respectability to it cease to do so.

I make one final point. My noble friend said that there were no plans to raise this issue at the Security Council during our chairmanship. I would ask that he talks to the Foreign Secretary and rethinks that. This is of enormous importance; we are dealing with the second most important power in the world, after the United States, and we must do everything we can to see that the international rule of law is observed by China, not flagrantly abused, as it is currently.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I will start with the final point that my noble friend raised, about the UN Security Council. As my noble friend knows, there are various institutions of the United Nations, and I have become reasonably familiar with them over the last six years as the United Nations Minister, among other things, at the Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office. That is why we chose the vehicle of the Human Rights Council, which was set up specifically for this matter. It was right that the issue and the statement were raised directly by my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary. The mandate of the UN Security Council is important, covering security and conflict issues across the piece. Of course, any agenda item on China’s role on the UN Security Council will also be determined, in part, by its effectiveness within that particular structure. However, we are raising these issues quite directly with China on a bilateral basis, with the Hong Kong authorities directly and, as I illustrated, at the United Nations.

On the issue of judges, there is nothing further I can really add. Like anyone, I am sure that the judges who continue to serve—and I add again that they are retired judges—will rightly make decisions that are reflective of their own key principles. I am sure that they are looking at these things very carefully. It is essential that the Hong Kong judiciary and Hong Kong’s legal institutions can operate independently and free from political interference.

Ukraine: Zaporizhzhia Nuclear Power Plant

Debate between Lord Cormack and Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon

Thursday 6th July 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I note what the noble Lord has said about the NPT, which I will certainly take back to the department. The noble Lord will be acutely aware that one party to the NPT happens to be a country called Russia. Let us not forget that, when the invasion started in February last year, Mr Putin himself had signed the NPT just before on 4 January, yet his rhetoric—thankfully not his actions—has since followed a very different trajectory. While I agree with the noble Lord about the importance of co-operation, we must keep the NPT at the forefront of our minds; Russia is a signatory, but it is not just about signing documents, it is also about abiding by them.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, we all remember Chernobyl. Is there not a case, following something that my noble friend said a few moments ago, to call in Commonwealth countries and discuss with countries such as South Africa and India—which for reasons entirely beyond me are giving succour and support to Russia—that this could indeed be an international disaster beyond limit? If this wretched plant erupts in the way that Chernobyl did, who knows when the end will come.

Council of Europe: Reykjavik Summit

Debate between Lord Cormack and Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon

Tuesday 18th April 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, the noble Lord asked quite a wide-ranging question. We will work with all the other member states in the Council of Europe to ensure that Russia abides by all the conventions, even beyond the obligations that it has in its former membership of the Council of Europe—that it abides by those other international protocols that it has signed up to. Of course, he is right about the avenue for Russian citizens, and later this week we will discuss yet another case of the appalling abuse by Russia of its own citizens and opposition figures. I remind the noble Lord, as he will be aware, that we are working closely with other institutions, including the ICC, to ensure that those very much at the heart of decision-making, no less than Mr Putin himself, are held accountable for the abuse of their position and their continued violations against the Ukrainian people.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, is it not very important at the Council of Europe that we stress the cross-party, all-party support for that institution? In that context, as a general election moves ever closer, should we all not be very careful about indulging in snide, personal attacks? Remember Dean Swift:

“He lash’d the Vice but spar’d the Name.”


Some of the adverts currently appearing completely ignore that dictum.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I agree with my noble friend but I add, as someone who served —it seems a long time ago—as a member of the team assembled from across this House and the other place at the Council of Europe, that I have always found that every member, irrespective of party affiliation, has acquit themselves in the finest traditions of our democracy. On a lighter note, when it comes to diplomacy, I always say that one thing many notice on the international stage is that we travel well irrespective of our party affiliations.

Global Health Policies

Debate between Lord Cormack and Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon

Monday 30th January 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, the noble Baroness raises a point about health recruitment. We are committed to working with the likes of the World Health Organization, which is governed by a strict UK practice for international recruitment, including a ban on direct recruitment for countries that the World Health Organization deems to have the weakest health systems. I agree with the noble Baroness, notwithstanding what I have just said, We work with particular countries to ensure that those who are recruited from those countries have an opportunity to return. For example, in India, we are looking at the opportunity to take advantage of studying medicine in the UK and working within the NHS in the UK; but within the scope of that, after the practical and academic experience, the individuals can return to healthcare in India. These are the innovative ways in which we need to work with other countries to ensure that we get the kind of universal healthcare coverage that is required.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

The noble Lord, Lord Fowler, gave the figures for AIDS. Does my noble friend not agree that a similar number of people are dying every year from malaria? Most of them are children, and most of them are in Africa. What prospects of real progress can he hold out for us in that context?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, partly, I can answer in exactly the same way as I answered the noble Lord, Lord Fowler. The Global Fund, as my noble friend will be aware, targets three specific areas: HIV, tuberculosis and malaria. The United Kingdom has committed £1 billion for 2022-25.

Execution of Alireza Akbari

Debate between Lord Cormack and Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon

Wednesday 18th January 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, as I said to the noble Lord, Lord Collins, it is not normal practice when nationals go to a particular country to make their dual nationality known, and certain dual nationals who are currently resident in Iran may not have made that known. The risks to any dual national are now abundantly clear. The noble Lord talked of Alireza Akbari’s return and, as I said, many who have a particular heritage, who were born in a particular country or who have an association with a particular nation, may feel that there is perhaps a positive role that they can play in changing the trajectory of travel of that country. I am sure there are many noble-intentioned British people with Iranian heritage who think exactly that.

Yet it is very clear that the regime—forget respecting or valuing that—has no intention whatever of leveraging that opportunity to bring itself back to a form of respect from the international community. I can tell the noble Lord that all matters were discussed with our ambassador, including welfare, because the first important duty of any Government or embassy is the welfare of its citizens. Anyone who is a dual national, as Mr Akbari was, is regarded as a British national.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, I endorse everything that the noble Lord, Lord Alton, and many others said. I welcome the tone of my noble friend’s replies and we are all very much in debt for the responsible way in which he approaches his very onerous duties. But this is an evil regime, presiding over good people in a beautiful country. We must surely be able to do something beyond what we have already done, which has had very little effect, to show that this is a pariah state that has no place within the United Nations. Should we not begin by severing diplomatic relations ourselves?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I thank my noble friend for his kind remarks but, on the actions we have taken, even in the last three months an additional 40 individuals or organisations have been directly sanctioned by the United Kingdom Government. As I alluded to earlier, in reply to the noble Lords, Lord Collins and Lord Purvis, we do this in conjunction with our key partners and allies, including the European Union, the United States, Canada and others.

My noble friend also raised the issue of what more can be done. While we have been acting decisively—about 300 individuals and organisations have now been sanctioned—we have also acted at the United Nations. I thank my noble friend Lord Polak for his comments on the UN Commission on the Status of Women; talk about a total and utter contradiction of representation to have Iran sitting on the CSW. We acted with our American partners and this demonstrated to me—here I commend your Lordships’ House—that, although it is sometimes not recognised—that issues raised here have a direct consequence on British policy and, more importantly, on the actions we take. That is one such example of recent action we have taken to send a very strong message to Iran that its actions will not be tolerated and, equally and importantly, working in conjunction with the international community.

Anti-lockdown Protest in Shanghai: Arrest and Assault of Edward Lawrence

Debate between Lord Cormack and Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon

Thursday 1st December 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, on the noble Baroness’s specific question, the summons was specific to the incident that had taken place. When a summons happens, having led a few myself, they are pretty short, sharp and to the point. I accept the noble Baroness’s broader point about the continued suppression of rights that we continue to see and the challenges we find. Recently, as she will be aware—perhaps this is why I am looking a degree jaded—for the last 48 hours we have had a really intense conference on preventing sexual violence in conflict, with more harrowing accounts from particularly young girls and women but also young men who have to endure this violence around the world.

It was also appropriate, I felt—and I thank the noble Lord, Lord Alton, in this respect—to ensure we showcase that, when we talk of conflict, we are not talking just of war; we are talking of the suppression of rights in conflict. Often, when wars are perceived to be at an end, conflict continues, and the suppression of vulnerable communities, minorities and, indeed, women and girls, continues. I assure noble Lords that we will continue to update the House on specific issues we pick up and, most importantly, to be informed by the expert opinion in your Lordships’ House.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, is it not all the more incumbent on us to be exemplary in the way we uphold freedom of speech in this country?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I absolutely agree with my noble friend and I assure him that, when I talk of human rights internationally, I always use the phrase, “We never forget our own backyard”. Our human rights were hard fought and there were incredible champions. We are talking about issues of religion, equality and justice, and it is important that we never lose sight of the fact that human rights is never a job done. That applies equally at home as it does abroad.

Missile Incident in Poland

Debate between Lord Cormack and Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon

Thursday 17th November 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I note what the noble Lord says. In the context of Ukraine, we have already committed to the funding we gave previously to Ukraine for military support. That £2.3 billion of military support will continue for next year as well; that is a standing commitment. The noble Lord talked about the importance of replenishing stocks. I assure him that, as we continue to support the requirements of countries such as Ukraine, and indeed our commitments through NATO, we keep a very close watch on our own assets and replenishing stocks for our own defences as well.

The noble Lord raises two very important points about the continued commitment from the Government to military and defence spending during the current crisis we face. As I speak, a Statement is being made in the other place by my right honourable friend the Chancellor. Equally, we have made commitments internationally, through our spending on NATO. I suggest that our commitment to NATO spending, particularly at this time, is an important call to the other countries of NATO to ensure that they are also spending the required 2% of GDP on their contributions to NATO defences.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, I shall continue on this theme, strongly supporting the noble Lord, Lord West, in what he said. Is my noble friend absolutely confident that, if this conflict escalates, as well it might, this country is not only able to continue supplying Ukraine but has sufficient munitions itself to tide us through a decent period of time? That is vital. Can my noble friend give the House that assurance?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, we work very closely with our colleagues in the Ministry of Defence. As I have said numerous times, the first duty of any Government is the security and defence of their own country and people. I am sure all noble Lords will agree that we have among the best—arguably the best—Armed Forces, with their experience, insights and the professionalism that they bring to the world scene. That is reflected in our contributions to NATO, which remain very strong. I agree with my noble friend that as we look to support Ukraine, it is important, as the noble Lord, Lord West, reminded us, that we stay equally strong in our defences and defence spending at home.

Alaa Abd el-Fattah: Hunger Strike

Debate between Lord Cormack and Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon

Wednesday 9th November 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I have received Alaa’s book. I have not read all of it, but I have read part of it and totally associate myself with the sentiments expressed by the noble Lord in uttering Alaa’s words. Hope should never be given up. This is a very dire situation; we have a British citizen who is now not just on hunger strike but has stopped taking water. His health is of acute importance to us.

What I can give noble Lords—I hope it provides a degree of assurance as I do not know what will happen in the next 24 hours—is that this remains a key priority for me personally as the Minister responsible. I know the Prime Minister has taken this very seriously. One of Mr Johnson’s last acts before leaving government—literally on his day of departure—was to ring and again emphasise directly the importance of this case.

I will update the House and hope I can provide hope in future answers. At this point, I can only stress and repeat that the Government have taken all measures in terms of direct engagement with Mr Sisi, the Foreign Minister and the ambassador here in the Court of St James. We will continue to do so. Ultimately, we hope —indeed, we pray—that Alaa will be given consular access and ultimately be released and reunited with his family.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, I am sure we all appreciate the manner in which my noble friend has answered these very difficult questions about a very tragic case, and let us hope that the ultimate tragedy does not occur. Does this not raise a wider issue as to where international conferences, and even sporting events, should be held? Should we not be a little discerning? Would it not in fact have been better for this United Nations conference to be held at the United Nations? It gives a degree of encouragement to allow countries that have fairly repressive regimes to strut the world stage and act as hosts to incredibly important international gatherings.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, obviously decisions are made about locations for particular events. In defence of the United Nations, while the conference has been going on, we have seen—and I spoke earlier of—the response of the High Commissioner for Human Rights, who is the most senior official and very close to the Secretary-General António Guterres. They have put out a very blunt and specific statement on this case. While we appreciate the Egyptians hosting this conference on the important priority of tackling climate change, which is for many an existential threat around the world, international conferences provide an opportunity —either directly, as in this case, or more generally through UN human rights organs—to throw a spotlight on specific issues such as human rights within a given country.

Iran: Women Protesters

Debate between Lord Cormack and Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon

Wednesday 9th November 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

I can give the noble Lord that assurance. I lead on the freedom of religion or belief, and indeed on engagement with civil society, and the noble Lord knows how important and central they are to my thinking and policy-making. On Iran specifically, I am looking to schedule a meeting with some of the key faith leaders here. What is being done on the ground there is not about religion; it is pure abuse of the rights of women and it must stop.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, should we not also note that not only is Iran persecuting its own people, especially women, it is also supplying drones that are destroying the infrastructure of the Ukrainian people? Has my noble friend communicated that to the Iranian envoy in this country?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I assure my noble friend that we have been very robust. He raises a very important issue and colleagues in both the FCDO and the Ministry of Defence have made that case very powerfully.

Northern Ireland Protocol Bill

Debate between Lord Cormack and Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon

Committee stage
Monday 7th November 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

I am sorry to interrupt but I am most grateful to my noble friend. The noble Lord, Lord Empey, made a very powerful and constructive speech. I listened to what my noble friend said in response to the noble Baroness, Lady Ritchie, but would it not be possible for informal invitations to be issued to Northern Ireland politicians to attend talks, particularly if the talks themselves are informal?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

As I said to the noble Lord, Lord Empey, I will certainly take back his comments and constructive suggestions and will, of course, advise the House if there is more scope in our current discussions with the European Commission.

I listened very carefully to all contributions. The noble Lord, Lord Kerr, raised the issue from where he was seeing it. As noble Lords know, when I have come to the House, I have reported. I was certainly involved in one discussion last week and, as I said, it was constructive and positive in both tone and substance. I am sure that all noble Lords who have served in government will appreciate that there are limits to what detail I can share.

Subsequent discussions have taken place, to which the noble Baroness, Lady Ritchie, alluded. I do not share the view of the noble Lord, Lord Kerr, that they are not going anywhere. If they were not going anywhere, we would not be meeting and talking. I also challenge the premise that they have not engaged the highest level of the British Government. Last time I checked, the Foreign Secretary was among those counted in the highest levels of the British Government. I therefore say to the noble Lord, Lord Kerr, that that is definitely not the case. The lead person dealing with Commissioner Šefčovič is my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary, who is a senior member of the British Government.

Returning to the amendment, for the reasons I have given, we cannot support it. However, I also point out that the Bill is needed because the Good Friday agreement institutions, including the Assembly, are not operating as they should be. I know that the noble Baroness will return to this issue. I welcome her valuable insights in this area, but I hope that, given my response, particularly on the important issues raised by her and the noble Lord, Lord Empey, she sees that we will certainly seek to further enhance our engagement with parties in Northern Ireland.

The noble and learned Lord, Lord Judge, focused on Clause 18, which simply provides the power for a Minister to engage in normal non-legislative contact where they consider it appropriate in connection with one or more of the purposes of the Bill. The clause also clarifies the relationship between powers to make secondary legislation under the Bill and those arising by virtue of the royal prerogative. It will ensure that actions not requiring legislation, such as issuing guidance for industry or providing direction to officials, can be taken in a timely manner by a Minister of the Crown. Clause 18 simply makes clear, as would normally be taken for granted—we just had a brief discussion with the noble Lord on the Government’s position on this—that Ministers will be acting lawfully when they go about their ministerial duties in support of this legislation. The Government’s view therefore remains that it should stand part of the Bill.

Armenia and Azerbaijan

Debate between Lord Cormack and Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon

Wednesday 26th October 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

On the noble Lord’s first point, time shall tell. On the more substantive point of Russia’s role, we have been very clear, and I appreciate His Majesty’s Opposition’s strong support for the position on Russia. Russia is playing a particular role in the region, between those two countries. We have made no attempts to engage with Russia—we are very clear on this issue—while other partners do so. The important role for Russia, or anyone else mediating or keeping the peace, is to do exactly that.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, I strongly endorse what my noble friend said about the noble Baroness, Lady Cox. Will he arrange for her to see and to brief our new Foreign Secretary? The noble Baroness has more knowledge of this subject than almost anyone else and serves the whole House in what she does. Will he try to arrange for her to talk to the Foreign Secretary?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, when I look around your Lordships’ House, that is probably a description of many within it and I am sure that the Foreign Secretary would have a busy schedule if I arranged that kind of expert insight and briefing for him. However, I can assure my noble friend that the Foreign Secretary will be fully aware of the noble Baroness’s remarks, as I always ensure he is, and we will look for opportunities for a full briefing from the FCDO with those interested, and for colleagues in your Lordships’ House to come into the FCDO to meet other key Ministers.

Nigeria

Debate between Lord Cormack and Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon

Tuesday 5th July 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I agree with the noble Lord. That is why the United Kingdom Government are hosting the conference across the road. We are seeing not just government but, importantly, faith leaders and, most importantly, civil society leaders and survivors who have now become powerful advocates against religious persecution at the forefront of the discourse. Equally, we condemn the atrocities that have taken place repeatedly in Nigeria, including the recent attacks on the church, which caused further fatalities, and the shocking abduction and ongoing captivity of Leah Sharibu. I hope that there will be a focus on Nigeria when we host the PSVI conference on conflict-related sexual violence later this year. I look forward to working with the noble Lord, Lord Alton, and the noble Baroness, Lady Cox, in this regard.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, on behalf of the House, will my noble friend salute the intrepid bravery of the noble Baroness, Lady Cox, who time and again goes to dangerous places to report back to your Lordships’ House? Can he assure me that Nigeria will be high on the agenda at the next meeting of Commonwealth Ministers? We have to reflect on the credentials for membership of the Commonwealth. Persecuting and killing people for religious reasons does not march well with being a member of it.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I certainly associate myself with my noble friend’s remarks on the courage of the noble Baroness, Lady Cox, and her endeavours to keep this issue on the front burner. The Commonwealth is now a group of 56 states; it provides the ability to tackle the very issues that my noble friend has raised and to determine how we can work constructively to improve human rights.

Women’s Rights to Reproductive Healthcare: United States

Debate between Lord Cormack and Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon

Tuesday 28th June 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

The point made by the noble Baroness is exactly what I have articulated: we have made it clear that this is very much an issue for the United States. Of course, each state has its own elected representatives. It is for the people of those states to choose their democratically elected representatives.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, I am glad my noble friend has reiterated that point; it is an important one. There are many Christians in this country who are very troubled about the whole subject of abortion, and that should be borne in mind as well.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I recognise what my noble friend has said. Any democratic country—any open society—gives everyone the right to express their view. What demonstrates the strength of our own country is that, while you might not respect a particular view, you respect and defend the right of someone to hold an opinion contrary to your own. We are a diverse, rich country in all sorts of aspects, including our faith diversity. We also recognise that America is a shining light and the closest ally of the United Kingdom. There is much that we share on strengthening democracy and human rights around the world; that will remain a strong sense in our focus globally as well.

Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe: Forced Confession

Debate between Lord Cormack and Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon

Tuesday 24th May 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, certainly in terms of what I have said we have always said that we would settle the IMS debt. We have now done so and the payment was made in full compliance with our international obligations, international sanctions and global counterterrorism financing. It was in parallel with the release of the nationals, but equally it was a debt. We have never accepted that our nationals be used as diplomatic leverage and we paid the debt because it was owed.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, anybody who saw the programme last night would have been, as the noble Baroness said, deeply moved by the dignity of this woman—it was amazing. Has the Foreign Secretary, since Nazanin returned to this country, summoned the Iranian ambassador and torn him off a strip and told him just how appalling it is that this forced confession should have been a condition of her leaving the country?

Northern Ireland Protocol

Debate between Lord Cormack and Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon

Tuesday 17th May 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, as my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary said, we have been negotiating with the European Union for 18 months, and my right honourable friend has been leading on this for the last six months. I have seen how serious and focused she has been in finding practical solutions; that door is very much open. Mr Šefčovič has been invited to have further discussions, and one hopes that the European Union will respond constructively.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, as a former chair of the Northern Ireland Affairs Committee in the other place, I ask my noble friend to take particular note of the very wise words of the current chair, who, after all, leads a committee of several parties and has got to know Northern Ireland very well. I hope that he will be present at key negotiations.

Amnesty International Report 2021/22

Debate between Lord Cormack and Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon

Wednesday 27th April 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I was present when the right reverend Prelate delivered her maiden speech and reflected on her experiences. She is of great value on the Benches she represents, and on this important issue. Yes, we raise the issue of human rights, and we raise quite candidly and specifically the issues of consular cases which are ongoing in Iran around the broader issue of freedom of religion or belief. I speak as a person of faith: the strongest test of your faith is when you have the ability to stand up and defend the rights and obligations of another belief or faith. That is something we pride ourselves on here in the United Kingdom. Speaking on the broad issue of human rights, it is a proud tradition we carry around the world, and long may it live on.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, I am sure my noble friend would agree that on this subject there is real concern about many areas of the world. May I single out two? One is Hong Kong and the other is India, where the Prime Minister paid a visit last week and where those who worship according to the Muslim, Christian and other faiths are constantly in a degree of difficulty and often treated abominably. Was the Prime Minister able to raise this? What have we been able to do recently in the context of Hong Kong?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, first, in Hong Kong, particularly with the introduction of the national security law, the issue is less one of freedom of religion or belief and more one of freedom full stop. The concerns we have in Hong Kong are well documented. We have an extensive support scheme through the BNO scheme, run by the Home Office, and more broadly when it comes to China’s suppression of rights. We see the abuse of freedom of religion most vividly in Xinjiang, and we have led on the Human Rights Council on that aspect. My noble friend also raises India, which is a strong democracy. I am the Minister responsible for our relations with India. As someone of Indian heritage, in part, and as a Muslim by faith, I assure my noble friend that we have very constructive engagement on a broad range of rights. India has a strong constitution and justice system and, within both those processes, the rights of every community, irrespective of faith, are fully protected.

Palestine: Recognition

Debate between Lord Cormack and Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon

Wednesday 6th April 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, the United Kingdom Government do not agree with the use of that terminology. Any judgment on whether serious crimes have occurred under international law is very much a matter for judicial decision. I can speak directly. I visited Israel in my capacity as Human Rights Minister. I assure the noble Lord that we had a very candid and constructive exchange on issues of human rights, including rights of representation. In doing so, I welcome the recent easing of restrictions in the holy month of Ramadan to allow people who wish to do so to go to holy sites and worship. That is a positive step forward.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, should we not remind ourselves that Israel is at least a democracy? It may be criticised for many things—I would like to see a two-state solution—but we sometimes lose sight of the fact that since the end of the war and the foundation of the State of Israel it has been a proper democracy.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I share my noble friend’s view. As I have said right from the start, in answer to the original Question, it is the United Kingdom Government’s position—and, I am sure, the position of Her Majesty’s Opposition—that we want to see open, flourishing, pluralistic democracies everywhere across the world.

Ukraine: War Crimes Allegations

Debate between Lord Cormack and Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon

Monday 4th April 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

I totally agree with the noble Lord’s point—this is a fundamental challenge to the order that was established after the Second World War, and it is posed directly by a P5 nuclear state. It has tested and continues to test the very premise of the workings of the United Nations. The appalling and abhorrent nature of it is in not just the conflict and the abuse of the UN system but the fact that even the humanitarian provisions for conflict resolution and humanitarian support for the victims of war are being impeded by Russia. I will be at the UN next week, and this will be part and parcel of the discussions that we have with not just Security Council members but the wider UN family.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, would it be a sensible idea to compile a detailed list of all these documented war crimes and to present it to Russian ambassadors around the world—including London, of course—and to the ambassadors of all those countries that have abstained from UN resolutions?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I hear what my noble friend says but our primary focus, which I believe is right at this time, is to co-ordinate the collection of evidence and to ensure that all countries that can work together are doing so and putting that into a single source of support for the ICC prosecutor. Of course, at a given time, that evidence will be shared, but at this time the immediate priority must be the collection of evidence in a co-ordinated fashion.

Ukraine

Debate between Lord Cormack and Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon

Wednesday 30th March 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I have not actually seen the statement raised by the noble Lord, but I will look at it. In principle, I agree with both points raised. The first is very clear: when it comes to peace, any resolution must be led and agreed by Ukraine, as I said in response to the noble Lord, Lord McDonald. That remains part and parcel of our thinking. On Mr Putin and Russia, President Zelensky has repeatedly been calling for direct talks, because it is important that the leaders of those two countries sit down to determine their future pathway. It is also important that other countries that support Ukraine, as we do, fully support direct contact in such negotiations.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, my noble friend gave the numbers of those who had applied for visas and of visas that had been issued. The latter seemed to be a small percentage of the former. What can we do to expedite visas for those who wish to accept the widely proffered hospitality of our country?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, my noble friend Lord Harrington and I have clearly heard about the importance of expediting the visa process, and the Government have moved in that direction. All noble Lords agree about the basic biometric and security checks necessary, but I will again pass on the importance of speeding up the process. Visas are being issued. Although this is a snapshot, I have met a number of Ukrainians and they want to go back home. Their immediate sense is to be near Ukraine. No person I met did not say that they hoped to return home in days and weeks; they are certainly not thinking about months.

Ukraine: Discussions with US and China

Debate between Lord Cormack and Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon

Thursday 17th March 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

On the noble Lord’s final comment, we all want to see that. This war has gone on now for many days and weeks with increasing and indiscriminate attacks on the Ukrainian people. This calls for the need for peace and conflict resolution. We back all current initiatives that are under way to seek a resolution. Ukraine is a sovereign nation and must lead on this. I assure the noble Lord that the Prime Minister is in daily contact with President Zelensky and is fully abreast of the current initiatives and progress. Russia can stop this in an instant. That is where the pressure should come. It needs to stop and pull back. There should be no preconditions in terms of where we go with this, but Ukraine must lead, and of course we will support President Zelensky in his peace efforts.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, is it not particularly sad for us that India, the greatest democracy in size and a crucially important member of the Commonwealth, is taking the abstaining line in the UN? Should we not be endeavouring with every diplomatic effort to ensure that India comes on side, as a democracy should?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I am the Minister responsible for our relations with India and I can assure my noble friend that we are engaging very constructively with India about the Ukrainian war. India also recognises its important role. Of course, it has a strong historic relationship with Russia, but it also recognises that what has happened is an unprovoked attack on a sovereign state. As my noble friend said, it is important that all democracies around the world call for an immediate ceasefire. Immediately after that, it will be important to ensure that the territorial sovereignty and integrity of Ukraine is fully protected.

Sanctions

Debate between Lord Cormack and Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon

Tuesday 1st March 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, the noble Lord makes a very practical and helpful suggestion. We are collecting evidence to support whichever jurisdiction might follow through on the crimes being committed on the ground, including those that will be investigated by the ICC. We will be in full support of that with whatever evidence we have; we will submit our own intelligence that we gather on the ground. Equally, as he may well be aware, we are a strong supporter of the ICC. We will work co-operatively with whatever evidence we can provide to it.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, my noble friend made several references to legislation. Does he accept that it would be right for such necessary legislation to be given priority over all other legislation? It is absolutely essential that we spend our time dealing not just with domestic Bills if there are Bills that can have a real influence on this ghastly situation.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, on the immediate issue of the sanctions, we have been working through the legislation, and I am grateful to the usual channels. Normally, there is a 28-day period for a debate to prevail after legislation has been laid; we are currently conducting the debates within 24 or 48 hours, so that partly reflects the situation. On the wider legislation we are bringing forward, I know the respective Front Benches and the usual channels are working very hard to accommodate the legislation required.

Uighurs in Xinjiang

Debate between Lord Cormack and Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon

Thursday 16th December 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, the noble Lord will know my response. Obviously, the British Government’s position on genocide and the declaration of genocide has not changed, but I believe that the tribunal—he will know this from our own exchanges—has again provided what I would describe as the most harrowing evidence of what has happened and continues to happen in Xinjiang, and we are looking at that very carefully.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, what contact have the Government had with Sir Geoffrey and the tribunal? Have there been official meetings? If not, will my noble friend undertake to ensure that he meets Sir Geoffrey at an early date?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I can assure my noble friend that we have met Sir Geoffrey Nice—indeed, I have met him on several occasions over various reports and work he does. Our officials followed the tribunal very closely and engaged directly with Sir Geoffrey Nice.

Bosnia and Herzegovina

Debate between Lord Cormack and Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon

Wednesday 10th November 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I agree with all my noble friend’s points. I assure him that the United Kingdom Government are using their position within NATO—the noble Lord, Lord Collins, made that point. We will be discussing this at the next meeting of NATO Foreign Ministers later this month, as well as how we can further support Bosnia-Herzegovina. My honourable friend the Europe Minister was in Bosnia over the summer, and I am in the midst of planning a visit to the region with my preventing sexual violence in conflict responsibilities, and to Bosnia specifically.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, as the first chairman of the All-Party Group for Bosnia in the other place, and one who was much involved in all the debates urging our then Government to take more decisive action, I am deeply distressed to think there is any possibility of further conflict. Will my noble friend use every endeavour he has, perhaps liaising with my noble friend Lady Helic, who knows more about this than the rest of us put together, to do what they can collectively to impress that we must never have another Srebrenica? That was a stain on Europe. I have not discussed it with her, but I think my noble friend Lady Helic would be well placed to give my noble friend every help and advice that he needs.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I assure my noble friend that I know our noble friend Lady Helic well, and she does not need support or encouragement in giving advice to me as Minister of State. Indeed, I am regularly welcoming her insights on a variety of issues, particularly in her work on PSVIC. My noble friend is correct that she has deep insight on the conflict.

On a personal note, in a previous career just after securing my job in the City, I engaged through Save the Children in a direct visit to the region when the conflict broke out. I have also visited Srebrenica on a number of occasions. The annihilation of a complete community, young boys and men in particular, who were taken out for simply being of a particular nationality and faith, should never ever happen again anywhere—let alone in Europe. Perhaps it is a sombre reflection for us in your Lordships’ House; I said to my Private Secretary as we walked across that we often talk of conflicts that are remote, but today we are talking of emerging conflicts on our continent once again.

Afghanistan: Food Shortages

Debate between Lord Cormack and Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon

Tuesday 9th November 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

I am engaging directly with a number of women leaders. Most recently I met Hasina Safi and Fatima Gailani to inform our policy in the medium term, particularly on the issues of girls’ education and women’s health. On the point about direct humanitarian aid, we do not intend in any of our support to give money directly to the Taliban. Its co-operation is required but the money will be handed to established players operating on the ground, such as the ICRC and the Aga Khan Development Network—I recently met with it—which is operational and is a respected partner for the UK as well.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, no one who heard the interview yesterday with John Simpson could have failed to have been moved and angered. Will my noble friend assure me that Her Majesty’s Government will raise this matter as one of urgency at the United Nations Security Council with a view to getting an international delegation to assess the situation and act urgently on it?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, as far as the Security Council is concerned, I assure my noble friend that I myself directly engaged in a recent debate on Afghanistan. On delegations, we are engaging at senior level with near partners, including other key countries such as Pakistan and Qatar, and we are of course working directly with the UN agencies that are already on the ground. Now is the time to get aid through the door and to the people, and that is what we are focusing on.

Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe

Debate between Lord Cormack and Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon

Wednesday 27th October 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My noble friend articulates the position very well and I agree with him.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, while I accept what my noble friend has just said, there is a debt and there is a hostage. Following on from the point made by the noble and learned Baroness, Lady Butler-Sloss, can we not lodge this money with the United Nations, so that we acknowledge there is a debt and when she has been released, as she should be immediately on humanitarian grounds, we can go forward?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, again I hear what my noble friend has said but I cannot say any more than I have already on the case and legal proceedings.

Russia: Alexei Navalny

Debate between Lord Cormack and Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon

Thursday 22nd April 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I agree. Further, I agree with the great, respected and revered Winston Churchill.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, following the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Walney, when he asked his Question, why do we not take sanctions against a given number of people every week until Navalny is released from his appalling jail? Although we know that the Russians veto things at the Security Council, that is no reason for not having an internationally publicised debate on this issue.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, on my noble friend’s second point, we are doing just that, if not necessarily at the UN Security Council. I mentioned the OPCW earlier. There is a specific debate with the Russians, in a constructive fashion, saying: “There was a poisoning of Mr Navalny. Answer the case.” The Russians have not been forthcoming. On the issue of sanctions every day or what may happen in future, there are good reasons why we do not speculate, one of which is that an evidential threshold needs to be met. Anyone or any institution that is sanctioned has the right to appeal, and we need to ensure that the sanctions we impose are robust.

Hong Kong: Pro-Democracy Campaigners

Debate between Lord Cormack and Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon

Monday 19th April 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I note and of course accept that the noble Lord has raised this issue on a number of occasions. However, as I have said in answer to other questions, I cannot speculate on future sanctions. I assure him, and indeed all noble Lords, that we work very closely with our partners: the European Union, Australia, the United States and others.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, much as I sympathise with my noble friend and appreciate the limitations of his personal power and influence, it is appalling when an international treaty—to which we and Hong Kong are joint parties—is violated by one party. We appear to be dragging our feet and it really is important that we have action this day.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, while appreciating my noble friend’s sympathy for my position, I assure him that I have been persistent in my capacity as a Minister within FCDO and particularly in my responsibilities as Human Rights Minister to ensure that we do everything possible, in terms of both direct action and action with international partners. We continue to lead the international community. We have made statements through the Human Rights Council and the G7 and will continue to do so. On the wider policy of specific sanctions, I have already indicated our current position, but we keep that position under review.

Clergy: EU Visas and Residence Permits

Debate between Lord Cormack and Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon

Tuesday 13th April 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I can of course assure the noble Lord that we will work with all organisations, including the Church of Scotland. If there are specific issues that he wishes to raise with me, I will be happy to answer them directly.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, are the problems experienced by the Churches not yet a further example of the increasingly tetchy relationship between the UK and the EU? I commend to my noble friend the very perceptive article in today’s Times by our noble friend Lord Hague, who points out how very important it is that we get on well and constructively? We have not left Europe. These are our friends and neighbours; it is incumbent upon them, and us, to ensure that we have a relationship which enables the normal decencies of life to be observed.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

I agree with my noble friend Lord Cormack, and indeed with my noble friend Lord Hague. That is why we work very constructively, including on citizens’ rights, with the European Union. The Specialised Committee on Citizens’ Rights oversees the implementation and application of citizens’ rights; this is part of, and central to, the withdrawal agreement.

Myanmar

Debate between Lord Cormack and Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon

Thursday 11th February 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I always welcome interventions from parliamentary colleagues. On the specific issue of the ICJ intervention, as I said before, our long-standing position is to support the action that the Gambia has taken. We regard a formal intervention as something that should be measured and timely to make sure that the issue can move on. It does not mean that we are not supportive, because we have not formally intervened. I further assure the noble Baroness that we have been engaging with the APPG, for example, which is looking carefully at these issues. Recently, Minister Adams and I convened a meeting with, among others, my right honourable friend Jeremy Hunt and Rushanara Ali to discuss this very issue.

[Lord Cormack (Con) [V]]

My Lords, I have a very close friend who has a son working in Myanmar. He has informed me that the British embassy has ceased to register British residents in the country. Could my noble friend confirm whether this is correct and whether the embassy is fully staffed? Does he agree that our presidency of both the Security Council and the G7 gives us a special opportunity to become global Britain? Will we convene a special meeting of the G7 and undertake to keep this very deplorable situation on the agenda of the Security Council?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

I believe that I have already answered the question that my noble friend raised on the G7 and the Security Council. On the other issue, we have advised all British nationals to remain at home where possible. There is a nationwide curfew, which makes it a challenge, but if any British national needs to engage, if my noble friend provides me with that information, I will follow up that issue.

Beijing Winter Olympic Games 2022

Debate between Lord Cormack and Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon

Wednesday 10th February 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I understand that it is the noble Baroness’s birthday, so I will add my best wishes to her. Picking up on the seriousness and appropriateness of her question, we made announcements on 12 January specifically for companies in the public and private sectors to look at their supply chains. We will announce further details in this respect and we will talk through the usual channels on any further announcements that need to be made.

[Lord Cormack (Con) [V]]

My Lords, I endorse the comments of my noble friend Lord Robathan about the significance of Berlin in 1936 and Moscow later, but particularly Berlin. Unless there is a notable improvement in the next three or four months in the way the Chinese Communist Party treats the people of China, especially the Uighurs, the Chinese Christians and other faith and minority groups, should we not order our athletes and their representative bodies to withdraw from participation in these Games and try and get them moved elsewhere?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, let me reassure my noble friend. He will be aware of my commitment to the importance of freedom of religion or belief around the world. This issue is very pertinent to what my noble friend raises. We have talked often about the Uighurs and other minorities within China. It is very much a priority for Her Majesty’s Government. I know it is a priority for our Prime Minister. On the issue of the Olympics and China’s current hosting or a change of venue, as I have already said, that is not a matter for Her Majesty’s Government, but my noble friend makes a very strong point, as others have during this short debate.

Hong Kong National Security Legislation

Debate between Lord Cormack and Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon

Thursday 2nd July 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

We are working with international partners but, as the noble Lord will be aware, the ICJ requires the agreement of both parties, and in this case I am not sure that the Chinese authorities would agree to an ICJ intervention.

[Lord Cormack (Con) [V]]

Will Her Majesty’s Government urgently convene an international conference of democracies to seek to persuade the Chinese that they will never be part of the civilised community of nations if they treat their own people abominably and abrogate international treaties into which they willingly entered?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, in my view, we already have the vehicles for that kind of direct engagement with China, not just through democracies but through the UN system. We will pursue those avenues. On the wider issue of human rights and the obligations of any Government, wherever they are in the world, how you treat your own citizens is an important test to determine how you behave internationally. The concerns we have had with the Uighur community in particular, as well as with other minority communities in China, are well documented. We will continue to raise those concerns through international for a, including the Human Rights Council.

Intelligence and Security Committee Report

Debate between Lord Cormack and Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon

Tuesday 5th November 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I respect that the noble Lord speaks with insight and experience on this matter, but I am sure that insight and experience lends itself to the fact that the Prime Minister needs to consider the report submitted to him. As I said in response to the noble Lord, Lord Collins, this is a formality. It is enshrined in legislation and he is doing just that. Any other thing is mere speculation.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, while I entirely agree that this report should be published in the public interest, and I reinforce what has been said, does my noble friend agree that it would be wrong to see the publication of the report as an act of hostility towards Russia? Many of us deeply regret the fact that the Russians were not invited to the D-day celebrations this year. They should certainly be invited to the celebrations on 7 and 8 May next year. They lost 26 million people in the Second World War. While it is important that we are correctly informed of what they are up to at the moment, we should not forget our historical debt.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I hear what my noble friend says. I am sure I speak for everyone in your Lordships’ House when I say that we all should pay tribute to those who lost their lives during the Second World War, battling Nazi aggression across Europe, and to the many Russian civilians who lost their lives. I reiterate to my noble friend that our differences and disagreements with Russia are not with the Russian people. However, we have seen Russia commit aggressive actions. As I am sure my noble friend acknowledges, Russia committed an act right here on UK soil in Salisbury and should be held to account for it. We have been asking for its co-operation on this matter. On the wider issue of talking to Russia on important security issues, I, as Minister for the United Nations, reassure my noble friend that we continue to engage with Russia on important issues of global affairs in fora such as the UN Security Council.

Sri Lanka: UNHCR Refugees

Debate between Lord Cormack and Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon

Thursday 9th May 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, again, the noble Lord speaks with great insight on these issues; equally, to return to the issue of Asia Bibi, I pay tribute to his efforts in that respect—I think we are all grateful for what has happened. But he is right that the real result will be not to have 1,000 Asia Bibi cases. We must work with countries such as Pakistan to ensure, first and foremost, that the long-term objective must be the overturning of these draconian blasphemy laws, which are used not just against minority communities in Pakistan but against Muslim communities themselves. I therefore assure the noble Lord that we are working closely with the Pakistani Government to ensure that we can build not just religious tolerance but understanding at a core level.

The noble Lord mentioned the UNHCR; we are engaged fully with the Sri Lankan authorities and UN agencies on the ground to see what level of support we can offer. There has been no specific request apart from the figures I quoted to the noble Lord, Lord Collins, on specific refugees who may come to the United Kingdom. On the wider issue of textbooks, the noble Lord and I have discussed this matter, and I agree with him. We have a massive aid programme to various parts of the world, including Pakistan and Sri Lanka, and it is important that, as regards any support we provide, the values we seek to extend are reflected in the education and training, particularly which young children receive in those countries. I assure the noble Lord that we are working closely on that very objective with DfID colleagues.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My noble friend is entirely right to draw our attention to the plight of these Muslim refugees. However, can I return to the appalling atrocity that took place on Easter day? Is he as satisfied as he can be that the small Christian community in Sri Lanka has adequate protection? To take up the point on the Commonwealth made by my noble friend Lord Howell of Guildford, would there be some value in convening a meeting here in London of Commonwealth high commissioners to discuss the persecution of Christians, Muslims and others of religious faith in the Commonwealth and to try to agree a much firmer code among them?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My noble friend makes a practical suggestion, and I assure him that I will take this forward. Many Foreign Ministers from across the Commonwealth will be attending the media freedom conference in July this year, and I will certainly look to take up my noble friend’s suggestion in the margins of that. I am conscious of time, but I put on record that I assure my noble friend that we are working closely with the Sri Lankan Administration to ensure the safety of the Christian communities, who have suffered the worst kind of atrocity. Terrorism is bad enough, but to attack people who are at their most vulnerable, engaged in an act of worship on the holiest day of the Christian calendar—there are no words to describe it. It is unacceptable, and the motivation for such an act is inexplicable. However, as the Prime Minister’s Special Envoy on Freedom of Religion or Belief, I am clear that freedom of religion and belief, which we enjoy here, should be a universal right; as the noble Lord, Lord Alton, said, it is a human right. I am sure that I speak with the support of everyone across this House and beyond when I say that the United Kingdom Government will work tirelessly to ensure that that objective is upheld.

China: Human Rights

Debate between Lord Cormack and Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon

Thursday 10th January 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, as I have repeatedly said, in bilateral meetings and, importantly, publicly, the Government are clear that our trading relationship with China is important. China is an important strategic partner, and it is because of the strength of our partnership that we are consistently able to raise these issues bilaterally. The noble Lord raised the important issue of a cross-government approach. Let me reassure him that that is exactly the approach we take. We will continue to raise these concerns, as I have said, through international fora and bilaterally. The situation for particular minorities and for groups that we have not mentioned—for example, journalists detained in China—is deeply concerning; indeed, it is a country which is paramount in our minds as the Foreign Secretary launches his new campaign this year on media freedom.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

It is good to know that the Government are making these representations, but what evidence is there that the Chinese are listening and acting on them? Surely it is a matter of the profoundest concern that the country that will be the dominant power in the world by the middle of this century indulges in these practices.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, as I said, our job is to raise this concern bilaterally and, with other like-minded partners, with our Chinese counterparts, and we will continue to do so. If I may, I will refer to a recent example that I have already mentioned in your Lordships’ House. Just before Christmas, we sent our diplomats to undertake an insight into the suffering of the Uighur community. They have now reported back and we are looking very closely at their findings and recommendations to ensure that we can take those up with the Chinese. This cannot in any way be done by force of hand. It is through consistent and collaborative representations that we will, I believe, begin to see a change. If the Chinese wish to see a place for China that is progressive—which they clearly do—they need to subscribe to the international standards set and be held accountable.

BBC Persian Staff

Debate between Lord Cormack and Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon

Tuesday 12th June 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

The Government have indicated their commitment through the funding that the noble Viscount has alluded to. In terms of longer-term funding, we believe strongly in the BBC World Service, most notably in its provision of impartial news and support to various populations across the world. I will write to the noble Viscount about funding beyond 2020.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, why does the Foreign Secretary not summon the Iranian ambassador to the Foreign Office every day until Mrs Zaghari-Ratcliffe is released?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I am sure that my right honourable friend will take note of my noble friend’s suggestion. However, I say to my noble friend that we do not miss any opportunity to raise consular cases. This is not just about the ambassador; let us be clear that, when it comes to the Iranian Administration, these calls are made in Tehran. We make these issues known not just to Foreign Minister Zarif but to President Rouhani, and there is also great influence in these cases from Ayatollah Khamenei, the spiritual leader in Iran. I do not believe that summoning the ambassador every single day would result in the release of Mrs Zaghari-Ratcliffe or the outcome that we desire.

Syria: Idlib

Debate between Lord Cormack and Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon

Wednesday 9th May 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

Taking the noble Lord’s second question first, the UN resolution provides for the very result he has alluded to. The United Nations has that basis, because it was a resolution that was passed by the Security Council with unanimity. He referred to agreements that may have been reached by the regime and other players within Idlib. That is not something that we would comment on, but I stress that one of the key players in that context is Russia, which is also a signatory to that UN Security Council resolution.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, it is highly probable that Assad will remain in power after this bloody, brutal and long civil war. Is it not time for Her Majesty’s Government to have some diplomatic representation in Damascus and to be talking to people? For goodness’ sake, we talk to many people internationally whom we do not like. Surely what is important is peace.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

We can all relate to the final point of my noble friend. Sometimes we all have to talk to people we do not like. I accept that principle. In the context of Bashar al-Assad, the position of the Government is clear. We believe in a transition away from the Assad regime to bring about the kind of resolution we want to see in Syria, which is one of unity, keeping the country intact and ensuring there is proper representation. On his question about a diplomatic mission, I repeat an answer I have given consistently: we do not have any plans to open a mission in Damascus. Within the Geneva accords there are of course representatives of the Assad regime, and we continue discussions with them as part of the overall settlement we hope we can reach on Syria in Geneva.

Syria: Humanitarian Situation

Debate between Lord Cormack and Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon

Monday 26th February 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I assure the noble Baroness and the House that we are looking specifically at the humanitarian situation. She will recall from a similar Question last week that there are about 700 people acutely in need. We have implored all agencies—and I alluded earlier to the proximity of the UN relief which is available—and it requires that dedicated action to ensure that that corridor can be opened up. Of course, evacuation of those who need the most essential medical assistance will be prioritised.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, from the very beginning we derecognised the Syrian regime and have refused to have anything to do with it. It is a civil war at this stage and, to try to bring to an end the unspeakable barbarity that is going on, can we not at least have a temporary diplomatic mission in Damascus? It would make every sort of sense and give us some influence.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I do not agree with my noble friend, for the practical reason that I have already highlighted—that the biggest influence on the Assad regime is that of the Russians. We have been working extensively with other European partners and other allies and directly with the Russians to ensure that we get the ceasefire that is required. It now needs Russia to be true to its word at the Security Council to ensure that we can sustain, retain and ultimately deliver the peace that is required to the conflict. As for the Assad regime itself, we believe that there needs to be a transition to a new Government who can protect the rights of all Syrians, and we will continue to work in Geneva in that respect.

Diesel Vehicles

Debate between Lord Cormack and Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon

Monday 3rd April 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, to continue on the sustainable theme, I am inclined to say “shortly”, but I will not do so. As the noble Lord is aware—I have already alluded to it—the Secretary of State for the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, supported by the Secretary of State for Transport, will publish the new air quality plan later this month. That is to be a consultation and will provide the time and the opportunity to consider the issues. I encourage all noble Lords to contribute to the consultation to ensure that when the final plan is published in the summer, it reflects the concerns that have rightly been raised in your Lordships’ House.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

If my noble friend accepts, as he did earlier, that gridlock can lead to extra pollution, does he not accept that the proliferation of cycle lanes has made an enormous contribution to gridlock, stagnation and therefore pollution?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My noble friend again makes a forceful point and I am sure that the Mayor of London, among others, will take note of it.

Shipping: Safety

Debate between Lord Cormack and Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon

Monday 27th March 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

The noble Lord raises an important point. I partly addressed it in my previous answer, but he is of course right. When we look across modes of travel, we see that in aviation, for example, all evacuation and emergency procedures on a flight heading for a particular destination in a particular country are explained in a particular language. I suggest that there is a bigger challenge for cruise ships, which often stop at different destinations—but language and crew training related to it are nevertheless important.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

What is the attraction of taking a cruise with 4,999 of your closest friends?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

Unlike the noble Lord, I cannot claim to have 4,999 close friends. There are many noble friends in your Lordships’ House, but, even if we went on a cruise together, I am not sure that we would quite reach that standard.

Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988 (Penalty Points) (Amendment) Order 2016

Debate between Lord Cormack and Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon

Tuesday 20th December 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Cormack]

My Lords, a number of us advocated disqualification for a period, and he has not touched on that.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

There was a final point on disqualification. I believe I have already touched on it. When someone is caught using their mobile phone and is referred to a court, instead of getting a fixed penalty notice, not only would they get a fine of £1,000—an HGV driver would get a larger fine—but they would also face disqualification. That is in the hands of the justice system and the magistrates’ courts. I hope that that answers my noble friend’s question. The noble Lord, Lord Rosser, asked whether this applies to HGV drivers. Indeed it does. HGV drivers can be pursued through traffic commissioners who regulate HGV and PSV operators.

I thank all noble Lords who have taken part in this important debate. The noble Lord, Lord Robertson, talked about experience around the world. Perhaps we do not realise the dramatic nature of the impact until we reflect on the statistics and the information behind deaths on our roads. When that is presented to you, whatever measures we take—what we are doing today or other measures—to mitigate those deaths reflects poignantly on the work of those who ensured that seat belts were fitted into cars. We owe it to all those on our roads and to families who have been impacted by those killed on our roads due to accidents often caused by people who use a hand-held mobile phone, send that text or check that social media tweet or Facebook update on the basis that it is only a second’s distraction. Recent tragic events on our roads have reflected that that one second of distraction can lead to a lifetime of loss for a family. I hope that in answering most, if not all, of the questions on the statutory instrument we can move forward in a practical way.

Railways: East Coast Main Line

Debate between Lord Cormack and Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon

Thursday 8th December 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

As the noble Lord knows, this is a line that runs from London, through Leeds and York, all the way to Edinburgh. It is important that, irrespective of what political affiliation may be held by people along the line, we work in a collaborative way to ensure improved services. I can reassure him about the continued investment in this line. I shall run through some of the programmes: the Northallerton to Newcastle loops in 2019; the York north throat in 2020; and the Peterborough to Fletton Junction down slow extension in 2019. I also believe a new station is opening, or at least a new station platform, which will allow fast-running trains to run through more quickly on what is a heavily used line with many shared services.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, my noble friend’s recital of what is due is comforting to a degree, but can he assure me that there will be no back-tracking on the Lincoln improvements? We have only one direct train a day to London and only one back, so it is impossible for people in London to have a day in Lincoln, whereas in almost every one of the other great cities within reach of the capital they can do precisely that.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My noble friend is always a strong advocate for Lincoln, and I assure him that we will excuse him the unintended pun of “back-tracking”. Let me also assure him that services will continue to expand. Indeed, as he may be aware, VTEC—Virgin Trains—will also be running additional services from 2019 on the link to Lincoln.

Airports: London

Debate between Lord Cormack and Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon

Tuesday 11th October 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I agree with the sentiments my noble friend expresses.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, last time I asked my noble friend this question he said that “shortly” would be “soon”. Is it any sooner?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I suspected this question might come up, so I have been thumbing through my thesaurus, which is quite well read. All I can say is that perhaps “shortly” will also mean “imminently”.

Airports: London

Debate between Lord Cormack and Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon

Monday 5th September 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I assure the noble Lord that no decision has yet been made.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, is “shortly” sooner or later?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

That is a very open-ended question but I would be very much inclined to say to my noble friend: sooner.

EU Nationals: Legal Status

Debate between Lord Cormack and Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon

Monday 4th July 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I share the sentiments expressed by the noble Baroness. Let me assure her that the Government are looking at this situation. It would not be appropriate to put down a particular marker as to which point, but there are legal considerations to take on board. Of course, the noble Baroness makes a very valid point. We will continue to put the concerns about the security of EU citizens here and UK citizens in the European Union at the centre of discussions as we move forward.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, for the second time in a week I say to my noble friend that while his credentials are beyond question, it is possible for us to come to some basic agreements before we invoke Article 50, and this should be one. I urge him to talk to the Home Secretary after this Statement and say, “Can we not agree a reciprocal arrangement with our European friends and neighbours that will not threaten the security of those who are living here and those of our citizens who are living there?”.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I will certainly take that back. My noble friend has spoken about this before. I assure him and indeed all noble Lords on this point, which has been raised before: before invoking that particular article, it is important that the terms of negotiation are determined and we know exactly what position we are negotiating from. One important thing to retain in all this is that it is clear that the citizens of the United Kingdom as one nation voted to leave the European Union. That is a fact. We need to ensure that we secure the best possible arrangements across the board. I am sure that the protection of the rights of those who live in the UK as EU nationals and those British nationals who live in the EU will be at the heart of those discussions, both from our perspective and from those of our European partners.

Hate Crime

Debate between Lord Cormack and Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon

Wednesday 29th June 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, I am sure everybody in your Lordships’ House is reassured by the fact that my noble friend is dealing with this subject. He brings great sensitivity to it, as well as great experience. Perhaps I may return to a matter that was raised several times during both the previous Statement and this one. I am sure that the remarks made by our noble and learned friend Lord Keen of Elie were not ill intentioned but they were extremely clumsily phrased, and they have sent out a message which must cause great anxiety among the EU citizens resident in this country. They are not, and must never be, a bargaining counter in any negotiations. Will my noble friend undertake at the very least to have an early conversation with my noble and learned friend Lord Keen and with the Leader of the House so that we can have clarification of those unfortunate statements before the House rises at the end of this week?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I thank my noble friend for his remarks. I see it as a huge privilege and an honour to serve your Lordships’ House. When it comes to issues such as tackling hate crime—in particular, we have seen a rise in the levels of anti-Semitism and Islamophobia—we have the strength and experience in this House to face the challenges from all types of extremists who seek to disrupt what we have. Those challenges require a unified response, and I shall remain open in the discussions as we tackle some of the more serious issues.

On the specific points that he raised, I am the first to admit that we are going through unprecedented times in terms of how we go forward as a country. However, I am an eternal optimist. I believe in the positive nature of our country and in our resilience. It is important to reassure every citizen who chooses to make the UK their home, including those from the European Union, that their rights, safety and security will be safeguarded, and this is perhaps the most appropriate time to re-emphasise that. Unfortunately, I was not in the House when my noble and learned friend spoke but I will certainly reflect on his comments. However, I was here when my noble friend the Leader of the House spoke, and I think she provided clarity on some of the comments and questions that were raised.

Railways: Open Access Applications

Debate between Lord Cormack and Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon

Wednesday 4th May 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

The noble Baroness is quite right to raise open access. That is why my right honourable friend the Secretary of State has written to the ORR to say that we wish to see the recommended changes to the current open access charging structure before the granting of any new open access agreements.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

Further to that point, will my noble friend assure us that these much-needed extra services to Lincoln are not going to be cancelled or withdrawn?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

When I saw “Lincoln” in my briefing, I assumed that my noble friend would raise this issue. I assure him that under current plans for Lincoln there will be an additional six trains from and five trains to London from May 2019, and upgraded train interiors are being introduced between 2015 and 2017. I reiterate that any open access agreements will be reflective of the changes that my right honourable friend the Secretary of State deems necessary in the charging arrangements.

Crime: Religiously Motivated Crime

Debate between Lord Cormack and Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon

Thursday 21st April 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

Let me put on record and make absolutely clear that at no time did the Prime Minister or any other member of the Conservative Party allege that the right honourable Member for Tooting is an extremist. We need to ensure in the current climate that we take a very responsible view on all the circumstances and the environment in which we find ourselves—and, more importantly, build and strengthen the partnerships that we are investing in. I pay tribute to all across the House who are doing just that, to ensure that wherever we find bigotry and hatred, be it based on race, religion or any other cause, we unify against it and build and strengthen our partnerships across the UK to face up to it.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, while echoing everything that my noble friend has just said, may I ask him to make it abundantly plain, in the wake of the question of the noble and learned Lord, Lord Woolf, that there is an enormous difference between race hatred and hate crime and freedom of speech? Many of us are extremely concerned by the erosion of freedom of speech, particularly in our universities.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

One of the things that I would say to my noble friend is that the Government’s view, particularly in my Home Office brief of countering extremism, is that we must ensure that we face up to hate and bigotry but, at the same time, protect the very freedoms that we battle so hard to achieve, which include the freedom of expression and belief.

Railways: Suicides

Debate between Lord Cormack and Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon

Monday 21st December 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

The noble Lord is right to point out that those have proven to be successful prevention barriers. The prevention barriers that I was referring to, those within Network Rail stations, physically divide the platforms and manage commuter traffic. We are looking at ensuring that prevention measures can be accommodated where possible in existing stations to prevent suicides. As I said, one suicide is one too many.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, how many mainline stations have a chaplaincy service where priests and leaders of other faiths are available to talk to people who may be in such distress that they contemplate this awful final act?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

In response to my noble friend, we are already working closely with the Samaritans, which I have already alluded to and who are the key providers of this support both to staff and to the travelling public. A poster campaign underlining that has also been launched.

Northern Powerhouse: Airports

Debate between Lord Cormack and Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon

Monday 23rd November 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I think the noble Lord is clutching at straws. I have made clear the Government’s position. A decision will be made on the Airports Commission’s findings, and I ask him to wait until that is made.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, I take it we are talking about this Christmas. Could we have an assurance from my noble friend that the announcement will be made to Parliament and not when Parliament has risen?

Airports: London

Debate between Lord Cormack and Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon

Tuesday 13th October 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I assure the noble Baroness that the Government are fully aware of that. Indeed, the Davies commission’s report highlighted the importance of establishing a community engagement forum, and that will form part and parcel of the Government’s reporting on the report.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

Will my noble friend assure the House that this decision will be made while both Houses are in session, and that it will be followed by full debate in each House of Parliament?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I look toward my noble friend the Chief Whip. I am sure that with his professionalism in these matters he will table debates accordingly.

Local Government (Religious etc. Observances) Bill

Debate between Lord Cormack and Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon

Friday 13th March 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, nothing in the Bill would prevent that. This is about choice at a local level. As we have already heard, there are provisions for local authorities to have prayers or not have them. We have heard from two Members on both sides of the House who are, today, members of local authorities, neither of which has prayers. If a coercive practice were already in place, surely those two Members who have spoken—the noble Lord, Lord Kennedy, and my noble friend Lady Eaton—would have said that their local authority needed to have prayers. Neither has prayers, which again shows the openness of what is being suggested. Indeed, all we are asking for here—and the Government support the Bill—is the opportunity for people to be given a choice. I know that that is not something that my noble friend objects to.

Perhaps I may turn to the amendments. One of the key objectives of the Bill is to give authorities, including, crucially, those authorities that cannot exercise the general power of competence, the freedom to include in their formal business prayers or other religious observance or observance connected with a religious or philosophical belief. I reassure the noble Baroness, Lady Flather, and other noble Lords that, for the purposes of the Bill, religion is not defined; rather, the Bill refers to,

“observance connected with a religious or philosophical belief”,

as other noble Lords have pointed out, and to “religious observance” as well. The definition is wide enough to embrace what might be described as mainstream religions but it also includes those with a sincerely held belief that is not conventional. Therefore, we consider that the Bill is inclusive. We have no desire—nor is it the intention of the Bill—to produce an exhaustive list of what is and is not to be considered a religion or, in this case, prayers.

On a lighter note, when I first joined your Lordships’ House, I came from the private sector. My right honourable friend Eric Pickles has been referred to. When I became a Government Whip, I was told that every Wednesday morning Eric held prayers. I thought, “This is novel. We’re going to turn up and have prayers with Eric”. However, it was a reflection of what we term “certain meetings”, and I think that those are reflections of our traditions. Perhaps the definition of prayer—which is very wide—is, as the noble Baroness suggested, one that allows local authorities to decide, if they so choose, to have a moment of reflection rather than a formal prayer service according to one religion or another.

We consider it right that authorities should have this freedom and right that they should be able to decide for themselves whether to include town hall prayers as part of official business. It is right because, as I have said, we live in a multifaith nation that respects all faiths and those who have none, and it is right because we should provide a local choice and, where a council wishes to hold town hall prayers as part of its official business, it should not be denied that freedom. I reassure noble Lords that the Bill does not compel town halls to adopt prayers. Nobody who does not wish to attend prayers as part of official business will be required to do so. Town halls may decide to have no prayers or to have a moment of reflection. That is part of the Bill, and the amendment seeks to remove that granting of freedom.

Amendment 2, coupled with Amendment 5, would introduce two new and, we believe, unnecessary restrictions, as the noble Lord, Lord Kennedy, pointed out, on the decision-making process in town halls. It is unnecessary because there is no need to require a two-thirds majority to enable a local authority to hold town hall prayers. As my noble and learned friend Lord Mackay ably described, this would mean that a minority might vote against prayers but still stop the council holding them as part of its official business. Do we want a minority stopping a majority from taking part in an item of business that nobody is compelled to take part in? That is exactly what the Bill is intended to put a stop to.

Nor is it necessary for a decision to include town hall prayers as part of official business to remain valid for only 12 months. The Government have worked hard to reduce red tape in councils, to remove burdens and to make town hall decision-making more transparent and accountable. This amendment would introduce, into a Bill that is about freedom to choose, a compulsion to revisit, year after year, a decision that has been taken and agreed. Councils are, of course, free to decide one way or the other on whether to include town hall prayers as part of its official business, and they are also free to reconsider their decision, but they should not be compelled to do so every 12 months.

I was interested to see the amendment that seeks to replace the Bill’s—if I may describe it as such—non-definition of town hall prayers with a definition of an act of worship. As I have already said, the Bill is carefully drafted to avoid the definition of prayer, religion or belief. The provision as drafted ensures that town halls are not limited to any particular act of worship or observance. This amendment may be intended to ensure that, through silence, no offence is caused. However, that would go against the Bill’s intent to recognise all faiths, and respect those with none, by compelling those who would otherwise vocalise their observance to remain silent. I worry that the amendment also goes against the transparency and accountability that we have worked so hard to ensure become part of town hall culture. I am also concerned that it seeks to silence those who would wish to make clear their belief.

Another amendment seeks to limit the time that the council may spend on an item of business—in this case, town hall payers or an observance connected with a religious or philosophical belief—to five minutes. I find that somewhat peculiar. I presume it is to ensure that town hall prayers do not take up too much valuable time. I have already mentioned transparency and accountability. We have ensured that the public can report on the proceedings of town hall meetings and I would imagine that the only measure of time deemed to be unreasonable for any item of council business is the length of time that the electorate consider unreasonable, no matter what the business. As it is, local councils determine themselves, generally in guidance, how long should be spent on different agenda items.

In conclusion, we should trust local authorities and councillors to serve the interests of the public to whom they are accountable, without the need for any steer about how long they should take over this or that item of business. We should trust councils and the electorate. This Bill is all about choice—the choice of whether to allow or not to allow—and that choice is best made by those who are elected at a local level to serve their local electorate. With these assurances, I again reiterate the Government’s support of this Bill. After we have heard from my noble friend, I hope that the noble Earl will withdraw his amendment.

[Lord Cormack]

My Lords, I am extremely grateful to my noble friend for his robust and totally convincing defence of a Bill that I had the honour to present to your Lordships’ House a couple of weeks ago. I am very grateful to all those who have taken part in this interesting and stimulating debate over the past hour. Second Reading came at a rather awkward time on a Friday two weeks ago. Most of your Lordships had been exhausted by the overseas aid Bill and, other than myself, there was only one Back-Bench speaker, namely the noble Earl, Lord Clancarty. I thanked him then and I thank him again now.

In effect, we have had a Second Reading debate over the last hour and I make no complaint about that. Amendment 1, moved by the noble Earl, Lord Clancarty, would remove the first part of the Bill and its whole underlying purpose. The noble Earl is rather fortunate that he is in your Lordships’ House and not in another place. I speak as one who, in another place, was a chairman of committees for 15 years and had to decide on amendments with the advice of clerks. In another place, Amendment 1 would have been considered a wrecking amendment and would not have been allowed. But I am glad that it has been allowed and that noble Lords in all parts of the House have had the opportunity to put their points of view.

I do not want to repeat what has been said either by the noble Lord, Lord Kennedy, to whom I am very grateful, or my noble friend the Minister, Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon. I just want to underline the essential purpose of this Bill. It is a wholly permissive Bill. No one is obliged to do anything. If a group of councillors or members of a local authority wish to begin their proceedings with prayers—be they Christian or of any other faith—a moment of reflection, or a thought for the day as happens in the Scottish Parliament, and a majority shares that point of view, that is how the said meeting can begin. If a different point of view is taken, it does not happen. We have heard from the noble Lord, Lord Kennedy, and my noble friend Lady Eaton, that in the authorities on which they serve, prayers or a moment of silent reflection do not begin the day. However, heaving heard what my noble friend Lady Eaton said, clearly it would be a good thing if they did have a moment of silent reflection on her council. This is wholly permissive. It does not dictate anything to anyone.

I say to my noble friend Lord Avebury, for whom we all have great respect, that this is a gentle measure. It really is. He quoted at some length the aggrieved Muslim councillor on a Tory authority, although he named neither the councillor nor the authority. I do not criticise him for that and I do not doubt for a minute that every word of what he said was entirely true, but it certainly was not typical, as my noble friend Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon made plain in his speech.

Housing: Brownfield Land

Debate between Lord Cormack and Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon

Thursday 5th February 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

The noble Lord makes a valid point. The Government are undertaking to ensure that all surplus land that they own and falls under that designation is sold. Such initiatives are being taken to support housebuilding across the country.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, land is very finite in this country. Will my noble friend reinforce the comments that he made about the importance of the green belt and maintaining it? Daily, we read about threats to Constable country and other glorious parts of the United Kingdom. It is crucial that this Government do not go down in history as one who allowed the despoiling of some of the most beautiful parts of this country.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My noble friend again raises the issue of the green belt, which has remained a constant at 13% of land across England. I assure him that the Government are greatly committed to protecting our green and pleasant land.

Troubled Families Programme

Debate between Lord Cormack and Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon

Monday 27th October 2014 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

The noble Baroness raises a very important point. Indeed, in raising that issue she has both great experience and has done an incredible amount of work in the area of women’s rehabilitation, particularly women offenders, and I pay tribute to that. She has raised an important point about the need to work together and to ensure that the women’s groups work at a local level. On a slightly different matter, before coming to the House, I met a women’s group dealing with domestic violence and identifying those issues. I talked about extending the programme to 400,000. One of the defining criteria now will be looking at domestic violence to ensure that those who are impacted are assessed and, most importantly, helped and brought back so they can be proud of their own contribution and the contributions of their families to society as a whole.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

Is there not a chance that we would have fewer troubled families if there was a greater emphasis on citizenship education in our schools?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

As ever, my noble friend raises an important and pertinent point. Of course, I agree totally, but citizenship alone cannot turn everything around. Unfortunately, we have identified families up and down the country who need such intervention in education, employment, health. Together with that, they will want to serve as proud citizens, and citizenship classes are important in that.

Localism Act 2011

Debate between Lord Cormack and Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon

Tuesday 29th July 2014 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

The noble Lord is correct—the community right to build was part of the Act and there has been a lot of community interest in it. Over the last two years, there have been more than 14,000 inquiries relating to the right to build. Eight applications for funding for community right to build orders have been made to the Homes and Communities Agency and the GLA. So far, two community groups have also submitted a total of four orders to their local planning authority for independent examination.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, if localism does mean empowerment of local people, what can be done to help the villages in the area around Nocton Fen in Lincoln, where there is a proposal to build 24 149.5-metre wind turbines, which would be twice as high as Lincoln Cathedral and would absolutely destroy one of the finest views in the county? Will the local people be assisted through the provisions of the Localism Act?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My noble friend has great knowledge of that area and brought this matter to our attention during our debate on the role of English parish councils. The Government are totally committed to ensuring that parish councils and our great cathedrals around the country are protected and the local environment is part of that. It is appropriate that local people are able to protect local heritage sites through local planning laws and the activism and power that we provided in the Localism Act. I hope that, as planning permission is granted or reviewed at a local level, local authorities will keep local heritage sites in mind.

Vocational Qualifications Reform Plan

Debate between Lord Cormack and Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon

Wednesday 5th March 2014 Lords Chamber

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, there is a national shortage of engineers. What are we doing to encourage young people to take up engineering apprenticeships? There is not a national shortage of hairdressers, yet there are far more training opportunities than there are jobs available. In the field about which I know a little, the crafts, we are not doing enough to encourage crafts men and women to take on apprenticeships. We are not doing enough to show that there are richly fulfilling careers in the crafts. I hope that my noble friend will be able to flesh out the Statement a bit so that we can derive some more encouragement from it than I have been able to derive this afternoon.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My noble friend always speaks with great expertise on several areas. He has done so again in drawing attention to this issue. As he asked, I will pan out on this and reassure him. On the issue of engineering, he will recall that I mentioned Trailblazers in response to the question of the noble Lord, Lord Young. The 29 additional industries and sectors we will look at include various elements of engineering, including civil engineering and rail. That will be led by organisations that include Jacobs Engineering, Atkins, CH2M Hill and Hyder Consulting. My noble friend also talked about crafts. That is another sector that will be covered by the second phase of the Trailblazer scheme. It will be led by organisations including the Victoria and Albert Museum, Cockpit Arts and the Mulberry Tree Woodturnery. I hope my noble friend is assured that, as I said earlier, across these 29 sectors 345 employers have now demonstrated their willingness to be part and parcel of this scheme.

Community Life

Debate between Lord Cormack and Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon

Thursday 27th February 2014 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

The big society—and society as a whole—is alive, well and kicking. We need only look around the country to see 5,000 community organisers trained in 2015; Community First; the Centre for Social Action; the Dementia Friends campaign; the Innovation in Giving Fund; the Citizen Service; and indeed the Big Society Awards, with more than 100 winners already announced. The big society is very much alive. Look around your local community and you will see it.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, much as I appreciate and applaud the national citizenship scheme, is it not time for the Government to encourage all young people to undergo community service and to qualify for a citizenship ceremony before they enter the adult world?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My noble friend raises an interesting point. It is important to ensure that the opportunities that are available to young people are shown to them. If we look at the take-up of the National Citizen Service, when it was launched in 2011, there were 8,500 young people involved. In the current year, there are 90,000. Next year, it will go up to 120,000. The estimates are that by 2016, 150,000 young people will be part of the National Citizen Service. It shows that when a scheme works for the country and it works for young people, there is a take-up. This scheme reflects that.

Park Homes: County Court Judgments

Debate between Lord Cormack and Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon

Monday 18th March 2013 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I have already observed that we have to strike a balance. The other side of the coin is that various options are open to people in pursuing county court judgments, which are decisions of civil courts. It remains primarily the responsibility of creditors to achieve a resolution. A range of measures is available, including warrants of execution, attachments of earnings, third-party debt owners and orders for sale, all of which can help in getting a resolution on outstanding issues relating to the obtainment of payment.

[Lord Cormack]

My Lords, will my noble friend try and ensure that all owners of park homes are given clear guidance on the extra protection that they will have when the Bill that is completing its stages through Parliament becomes an Act? Will he do his very best to ensure that these vulnerable people are aware of their new rights?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My noble friend is correct. The Bill to which I alluded, and with which the noble Lord, Lord Graham, was greatly involved, seeks to ensure that those with mobile park homes are made aware of their rights and that the obligations of site owners are made clear. My noble friend makes a valid point that I shall take back to the department about the effectiveness of communication across the board in ensuring that the tenants in these properties are made fully aware of their rights.