Magna Carta

Lord Cormack Excerpts

Tuesday 7th February 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord McNally]

What excellent ideas. It is strange how the same thoughts go through our minds. Just as the noble Lord was speaking, I was looking at the noble Lord, Lord Foulkes, and thinking what a perfect hostage he would make in the circumstances. Not long ago, I went to a ceremony at Runnymede and pointed out something that may surprise some Members of this House in view of my views about reform—that at Runnymede, the Barons did very well.

[Lord Cormack]

My Lords, does my noble friend think that the Barons who look down upon us daily from their plinths above this Chamber would be best pleased if, a month after the next general election, they looked down upon a hybrid Assembly with a group of senators in it?

[Lord Strathclyde]

Progress.

Domestic Violence, Crime and Victims (Amendment) Bill

Lord Cormack Excerpts

Friday 27th January 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Cormack]

My Lords, no one is better qualified to give the Bill a testimonial than the noble and learned Baroness, Lady Butler-Sloss. I am sure that we are all delighted that she has done so. I add my congratulations to those of others to the noble Lord, Lord Laming, not only on introducing the Bill but on the manner in which he did so: with calm precision, unflamboyant language but clear dedication. No one in this country is better qualified to introduce such a measure than him.

It comes from another place, and that gives us all comfort, because we know that a Private Member’s Bill that has a fair wind from the Government and the Official Opposition has a really good chance of getting on the statute book. I am sure that, when he responds to the debate, my noble friend will be able to indicate that this will soon become law. It is a small but far reaching measure. We are talking about cruelty. Sometimes we use the word “abuse” too loosely. We are talking about cruelty to children and vulnerable adults. There should be no hiding place for those who are complicit in or guilty of acts of cruelty. To my mind, to be present is to be complicit; the noble and learned Baroness, Lady Butler-Sloss, almost said as much. If a woman is being intimidated by a man, nevertheless she knows that if cruelty is being inflicted on a child that is wrong. She should become a domestic whistleblower or suffer the consequences by being regarded as being complicit in an act of cruelty.

I very much hope that the Bill will quickly become law and will lead to some people who have hitherto escaped justice being brought to justice. Winston Churchill once said that one judges a society by the way in which it treats those who are imprisoned. I have always subscribed to that, because sending to prison is the punishment and the purpose of prison is rehabilitation; but one also judges a society on how it protects its most vulnerable members. Whether it be an incapacitated adult, for physical or mental reasons, or a child, it is the duty incumbent on all of us to ensure that—as far as it lies within us—there is absolute protection given. If people transgress and inflict cruelty, they must be brought to justice, adequately punished and, one hopes, properly rehabilitated. I am delighted to be able to support this Bill. I wish it a speedy passage and warmly congratulate the noble Lord, Lord Laming, on his initiative.

Freedom of Information Act 2000

Lord Cormack Excerpts

Tuesday 17th January 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Cormack]

My Lords, I can think of nowhere else where such a brief debate could contain so much. We are all enormously grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Hennessy, for the manner in which he introduced the debate, just as many of us are grateful to him for all that he has done for contemporary history.

I speak as one who for some 24 years was on the Royal Commission on Historical Manuscripts and sat on the council of archives, and who occasionally had to chair a panel to adjudicate on whether a certain document should indeed be released. I therefore have a great deal of sympathy with the general case that the noble Lord so brilliantly and wittily made when he opened the debate.

There are other things that we have to consider, though, and some of them have been touched upon in this debate. The importance of archives is such that we must not endanger them or their preservation. My noble friend Lord Black talked about the digital and electronic archive, which is something to which we have not yet devoted sufficient attention.

My noble friend Lady Shephard of Northwold talked very eloquently about the need for conventions. It is truly important that we have those. What we do not want is an incentive to destroy or an incentive for people to go into the back garden of an embassy, which I was once told about when I visited an iron curtain country. That was the only place where people dared talk. We need to have the conversations between Ministers and civil servants recorded and released at the appropriate time.

However, the appropriate time is not always necessarily after 15 or 20 years. Sometimes it has to be longer. Although the noble Lord, Lord Bew, said that we no longer live in the age of Gladstone, in which a statesman could be active for 50 years, maybe he is being a bit premature. We live in an age of longevity. At the moment we have three party leaders who could well still be active in politics in 20 years’ time. I should not like to think that they were being driven to make difficult decisions on the sofa or somewhere that are not adequately recorded so that the Hennessys of the future and those who look back, not as contemporary historians but as historians viewing a whole sweep of history, are deprived of essential evidence.

In this, as in all things, we have to get the balance right. If we take the judicious approach of the noble Lord, Lord Hennessy, tempered by the cautious words of the noble Lords, Lord Wilson and Lord Armstrong, we will have the ideal solution. I know that my noble friend Lord McNally has a reputation for being something of a Solomon. We will have to hear what he says to us tonight. However, I hope he will be able to assure us that he has a passionate care for archives, but complete archives, and that he will do nothing to damage in any way the material that future historians will need.

Justice: Pre-trial Publicity

Lord Cormack Excerpts

Wednesday 14th December 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord McNally]

My Lords, I agree with the noble and learned former Attorney-General. At the City University lecture to which I referred, the Attorney-General said that it appeared to him that,

“the press had lost any sense of internal constraint and felt able, indeed entitled, to print what they wished, shielded by the right of ‘freedom of expression’ without any of the concomitant responsibilities”.

We are indeed making it clear to newspapers that the law exists in this area. As he has already demonstrated, the Attorney-General is willing to follow the example of his predecessor and take action under that law.

[Lord Cormack]

My Lords, it is not only the press which is to blame here; the police made no secret of the fact that they had arrested Mr Jefferies on suspicion of murder. Should there not be a prohibition on the police announcing that sort of arrest until someone is actually charged with an offence?

[Lord McNally]

Again, that is very sensible. One of the things that has come out of recent revelations is a perhaps unhealthy linkage between the press and the police in high-profile cases. The police themselves should be very concerned to observe all proprieties when dealing with such serious matters.

Business of the House

Lord Cormack Excerpts

Thursday 24th November 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord McNally]

I am reliably advised that the debate is included in the forthcoming business and will be held on 1 December.

[Lord Cormack]

My Lords, will the debate be held on the Floor of the House or in the Moses Room? Most of us feel that it should be on the former.

[Lord McNally]

By agreement with the usual channels, it will be held in the Moses Room.

Supreme Court: President

Lord Cormack Excerpts

Wednesday 16th November 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord McNally]

I think that is what I indicated in my earlier reply.

[Lord Cormack]

My Lords, is it not comforting that one of the latest appointments to the Supreme Court has written a definitive history of the Hundred Years’ War?

[Lord McNally]

Indeed. I always go along with the dictum of Denis Healey—the noble Lord, Lord Healey—that you should look for people with hinterland.

House of Lords: Reform

Lord Cormack Excerpts

Wednesday 22nd June 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord McNally]

You have to be patient. You are behaving as you used to do in the House of Commons. That is why wind-up speeches in the House of Commons take so long. This has been a long debate. I am not going to answer every question in 100 speeches, partly because, as I have already pointed out, this is the start of a process of consideration. I think many of the questions that were raised quite rightly should be addressed by the committee to be chaired by the noble Lord, Lord Richard, and I will make further points on that. However, I must remind this House—this unelected House—that all three parties fought the last election advocating direct elections as part of their plan for reform of the House of Lords. Those policies presumably went through a decision-making process in all three parties. I wonder how many of the speeches made from the Labour Benches would go down at a Labour Party conference, or how some of the speeches made from my own Benches would go down at a Liberal Democrat conference.

My party leader and my party took a great deal of criticism when they appeared to go back on a manifesto commitment concerning tuition fees. The noble Lord, Lord Forsyth, made great hay of that during his contribution. However, this is a threefold commitment that the government proposals reflect. As far as I am aware, no one has put proposals to continue with an unelected House before a party conference or put them into an election manifesto. As the noble Lord, Lord True, suggested—

[Lord Cormack]

I am most grateful to my noble friend, but what does he say to the statement made earlier today that no party won the general election and that the one that came closest to doing so—the Conservatives—had the most lukewarm sentence in its manifesto?

[Lord McNally]

All three parties had it in. I have to say that that is a kind of car salesman’s excuse. Let me make it clear that I am not anticipating changing many minds during this speech. However, I am also very well aware—more than this House seems to be aware—that this is not a perfect reflection of opinion in the country. That should be the warning to this House.

Elections: Alternative Vote System

Lord Cormack Excerpts

Tuesday 3rd May 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord McNally]

My Lords, whether it is inevitable in the end I simply do not know. As to the other information that the noble Lord imparted to the House, I am sure that it will, as ever, be accurate.

[Lord Cormack]

My Lords, is not the Minister correct and the noble Lord opposite also correct? There are no current plans but it is inevitable.

[Lord McNally]

Nothing is inevitable, including the outcome of the AV referendum.