Love Matters (Archbishops’ Commission on Families and Households Report)

Lord Cormack Excerpts

Friday 8th December 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, it is a very great pleasure to follow the right reverend Prelate’s splendid speech. Housing is fundamental to decent family life and she is right to make those points. I add my congratulations to the most reverend Primate of all England on choosing this debate and the manner in which he introduced it.

It is entirely appropriate to have a Christmas debate focused on the family. Christmas is the season which above all is focused on the most famous family that ever lived. It is a privilege to take part in this debate. I want to choose my words with real care because I so agreed with my noble friend Lady Stowell when she focused on marriage. Like my friend, the noble Lord, Lord Griffiths of Burry Port, I have had a long marriage to a single wife—56 years in my case. What I am even more pleased about is that both of my sons have celebrated their silver wedding anniversaries and one is heading for his 30th next year, which is very good. The family is the fundamental building block of society. Strong marriages make for strong families.

My noble friend Lord Herbert made a powerful and moving speech. He indicated that he respected the views of those who take a different view. While I am proud to have many gay friends whom I like and admire enormously, I hold to the traditional Christian view that marriage is between a man and a woman. Many Christians do not agree with that, and I respect them. Perhaps I am wrong. However, I hold to that view. It is extremely important that we do all what we can within the Christian Church to encourage marriage, because there is a stability in that relationship which is not present in others.

I support what the General Synod decided a couple of weeks ago. I am sorry that the majority was such a narrow one, because I think that it is right that those of the same sex who wish to live together as a permanent couple should have an opportunity for a blessing in a church. I welcome that and support it, and will continue to do so. I have every sympathy with the most reverend Primate, who has, in seeking to lead the Anglican Communion, a very difficult task indeed. He deserves the support and the prayers of us all, because what my noble friend Lord Herbert said about Uganda is, frankly, toe-curling. I do not see how any Christian can give support to a regime that will punish with a death sentence people who follow particular inclinations in their lives. He has my complete support in the hard work that he seeks to do there.

It is appropriate to turn to the role of government. I agree with my noble friend Lord Robathan, who made the point that he was not a supporter of the nanny state—he did not put it in those words. Nor am I, but I think that the Government have a real task to encourage family life and to do all they can, to touch on the point made by the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Chelmsford, to ensure that there is proper housing available. It is difficult to hold a family together if it has to live in the sort of conditions that the noble Lord, Lord Griffiths of Burry Port, so movingly described in his speech.

There is another thing that I would like to see government do. I am one of those who believes there is a real virtue in a civil national service for young people who reach the age of 18. After all, if we do not treat our children properly, we are sabotaging our own future. I am not suggesting that it has to be full-time, and it can be in conjunction with university or other studies or occupations, but there is real value in giving, or encouraging in, young people a sense of civic and national pride and patriotism—I use that word deliberately—by obliging them to perform certain tasks of a civil nature. The National Trust encourages this, and it is very good that it should, but it really should be for every young person to have that opportunity, and it should be underwritten by government funding, whichever party is in power.

I am one of those who just escaped national service. I was old enough and had it deferred: in those days, if you went to university, it was virtually automatically deferred until you got your degree. By the time I had graduated in 1960 or 1961, it was all over. I rather regret that, but nevertheless, there we are. There is a great deal to be said for reform of civil national service for our young people. It would chime with many of the recommendations made in this hefty and lengthy report, on which I congratulate the two Archbishops and all those responsible for it. Again, I thank the most reverend Primate for giving us the opportunity to debate this in your Lordships’ House.

[Lord Hacking (Lab)]

My Lords, I hope the noble Lord will allow me to break in just before he sits down. I did not avoid national service: I did my two years and there is much that he said that is true about it. But, having listened to the whole of this debate, the emphasis surely should not be on marriage. We understand entirely why the noble Lord, Lord Herbert of South Downs, feels so strongly about marriage, but the centre point is the family and the household.

State Pensions: Canada Free Trade Agreement

Lord Cormack Excerpts

Wednesday 18th October 2023 Lords Chamber

[Viscount Younger of Leckie (Con)]

I cannot deny that the noble Baroness makes a very good point. I will certainly go back and look at the specific case she has raised. I think she is saying that it extends to others, and I will certainly look at that. As far as I am concerned, the Government should be—and I will check on this—making every communication available for individuals who are seeking to move abroad, particularly to Canada, to have as much of the correct information as possible that they need in order to make all the decisions to make that move.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, is my noble friend aware that a number of Members of your Lordships’ House have received letters signed by some 25 Canadian Senators? Did he receive such a letter? If he did, will he be kind enough to put a copy of his reply in the Library? If he did not, I will let him have my letter and perhaps he can do it with that.

[Viscount Younger of Leckie (Con)]

I can reassure my noble friend that I have received my own letter: actually, it happened to be today, because we have been away. I am already on it and I will certainly be replying to it. I shall be passing it to my officials and making sure that there is a response, and I will certainly make sure that my noble friend is copied in.

Universal Credit

Lord Cormack Excerpts

Thursday 5th July 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Buscombe]

My Lords, it is important for me to make clear that my right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions has already apologised, and that apology has been accepted by the House of Commons and the Speaker of the House of Commons. Following Oral Questions on Monday, my right honourable friend was afraid that she had mistakenly used a term that was not an accurate term reflected in the report. My right honourable friend therefore went to see the Speaker. This was entirely independent of the letter produced on Wednesday, so there is no question that my right honourable friend has tried to avoid, evade or do anything untoward. My right honourable friend was very clear that she was mistaken, she was wrong and she was very keen to put that right at the earliest opportunity. Hence, the Speaker accepted that apology yesterday.

The meeting on Monday will of course be extremely important. We accept the facts in the report. We do not deny the facts; we support the facts. In a sense, we are saying, “Please, please, National Audit Office, we want to demonstrate that the impact of the changes undertaken, particularly those made last autumn, is yet to be proven”. She will want to make that absolutely clear.

There is no question but that we will look with care at what has been said in the report. I am sure that we will implement those recommendations that we feel able to from the report.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, I do not think the House can ever have heard a less clear Statement than the one repeated today. I appeal to my noble friend to ask the Secretary of State—although I am not impugning her good faith in any way—to realise that it is important that when she communicates with either House of Parliament, directly or through another Minister, she does so with clarity and in plain English. Perhaps it would be a good idea if Sir Ernest Gowers’s book on plain English was circulated to all Ministers and civil servants before we have that gobbledegook reported from the Dispatch Box ever again.

[Baroness Buscombe]

I say to my noble friend that, given his extensive years in another place, he will appreciate that the job my right honourable friend is doing is very tough. She is involved with the most important, fundamental and huge piece of welfare reform that has taken place for many years. It is close to her heart, as it is to all of us in the department. We absolutely accept that it is important that we reflect the need to be agile. Indeed, one of the incredibly positive aspects of the NAO’s report is on page 15, which is all about the development of the full-service system. It talks about the department using an agile approach for the full service and the need to constantly test and learn, test and learn. We are doing this continuously.

I am sorry if my noble friend feels that my right honourable friend has been less than clear, but the reality is that we are very keen to explain to all noble Lords and Members of another place that what we are doing is the right thing. We just want to stress that it is important to reflect the impact of changes that are still coming through the system.

Universal Credit

Lord Cormack Excerpts

Thursday 23rd November 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Buscombe]

My Lords, I want to make sure that I say the right thing. All I can say is that we are spending over £50 billion on disability, which is a record, and expenditure is going up. We spend over £50 billion a year on benefits to support disabled people and we are proud of that. Spending on people with health conditions is up by more than £7 billion since 2010. As a share of GDP, this is the second highest in the G7.

Almost 3.5 million disabled people are now in employment, which is really fantastic. We want to help as many disabled people as possible into work. They want to work and to be part of the world that they inhabit—that has to be our ultimate goal. But the noble Lord is right: we closed our debate last week with the noble Baroness, Lady Sherlock, saying that this is a work in progress. I entirely agree with her. It is a work in progress and it will continue to be until rollout in 2022.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, I am sure that we are grateful to my noble friend and also glad that she is feeling rather better than she was last week as, clearly, she was labouring under difficulties. We are grateful, too, to the Chancellor for responding, but can my noble friend consider very carefully some of the points that came up last week? I quoted a parish priest, who happens to be a godson of mine, who had written about sanctions and the way they were being administered, to his certain knowledge, in a very deprived urban area of Lancashire. Can we please take very careful note of what people like that say as they have no personal axe to grind but are merely concerned about some of the most deprived people in our communities? Can we listen and try to be continually responsive? This is a good beginning but we still have far to go.

[Baroness Buscombe]

My Lords, I thank my noble friend. In our debate last week, I remember that he referenced another contact, who said that our work coaches had targets. That is entirely wrong. Let me be clear: we have sanctions. A Work and Pensions Select Committee report in 2015 stated that sanctions are,

“a key element of the mutual obligation that underpins the effectiveness and fairness of the social security system”.

Evidence shows that sanctions have a positive impact on behaviour. This has to be seen in the context of people whose families have for generations not had work in their lives. The Select Committee is right about this issue as over 70% of JSA claimants and over 60% of ESA recipients say that sanctions make it more likely that they will comply with reasonable and agreed requirements.

That is not to say that we ignore those desperately in need. We have a well-established system of hardship payments available as a safeguard if a claimant demonstrates they cannot meet their immediate and most essential needs, including accommodation, heating, food and hygiene, as a result of their sanction. A legislative change came into force on 23 October 2017 to extend the list of JSA vulnerable groups to include homeless people and those with mental health conditions so that they can, if they qualify, receive hardship payments from the first day a sanction is imposed.

Pension Protection Fund and Pensions Regulator

Lord Cormack Excerpts

Thursday 13th July 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Buscombe]

My Lords, as the noble Lord will know, the Green Paper covered four key areas: funding and investment, employer contributions and affordability, member protection, and consolidation of schemes. It looked to examine and build on the discussion already taking place on what, if anything, should be done to ensure that the system remains sustainable while ensuring that members’ benefits are protected. It is really important to say that issues such as powers to block certain mergers and acquisitions should be thought through extremely carefully, not least because we want to ensure that any changes to the powers of the regulator do not trigger unintended consequences and act as an impediment to business and growth.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, my noble friend talked of the “near future”—is that soon, or shortly?

[Baroness Buscombe]

That will be shortly.

State Pension

Lord Cormack Excerpts

Thursday 28th April 2016 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Altmann]

The noble Lord has asked about five questions. However, I can certainly reassure the House that there is an absolute commitment to protect pensioner benefits up to 2020, and the basic state pension and the full new state pension, through the triple lock. As regards the expenditure on state pension, the reason that there are losers, if you like, in the long run—although I would not call them losers—is that we need to make the state pension system sustainable. That is exactly what the new state pension system will do. Indeed, with the introduction of the state pension, 75% of women and 70% of men will get more state pension. In the long term, the aim is for the auto-enrolment private pension to make up for the loss of earnings-linked state pensions.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, I am sure that is very welcome news, but reverting to the question asked by my noble friend Lord Lawson, will my noble friend remind the House of the total cost of the winter fuel payment?

Welfare Reform and Work Bill

Lord Cormack Excerpts

Monday 21st December 2015 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Hayman (CB)]

My Lords, on a business point, perhaps I can help the noble Baroness, Lady Anelay, as I noticed that other Members of the House wished to come in on the Question, but we had only 10 minutes in which to do so rather than the 20 minutes that we would have had on a Statement.

It was not a prime ministerial Statement, but I well remember making a proper ministerial Statement to this House when the other place was not sitting when the first case of foot and mouth disease was discovered in February 2001. As I say, the House of Commons was not sitting. Although the noble Baroness is not the Prime Minister, she has the respect of this House and I simply recommend to the Government Front Bench that it would be possible to have a ministerial Statement in those circumstances; there is precedent for that.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, in considering that, I urge my noble friend to consider also how inconvenient it is when the two Houses sit at different times. It would have been so much more sensible if both Houses had risen on the same day and were to come back on the same day.

Motion agreed.

Health and Safety at Work etc. Act 1974 (General Duties of Self-Employed Persons) (Prescribed Undertakings) Regulations 2015

Lord Cormack Excerpts

Wednesday 22nd July 2015 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Donaghy (Lab)]

My Lords, I regret that these regulations are before the House. As they are here, I think they are the least worst option. I see from the impact assessment that a “probabilistic” approach was taken to these regulations. It is not a word I have ever heard of. I hope they veer towards the probable rather than towards the ballistic in their outcome.

As the Minister has said, the catch-all provision to ensure that those self-employed persons who may pose a risk to others are not exempt from Health and Safety law is at least an improvement on the original intention. The word “may”, however, leaves an awful lot to be desired. This all arose, of course, from an explicit assurance by the noble Lord, Lord Wallace of Saltaire, to my noble friend Lord McKenzie of Luton, who was seeking inclusion of this provision in the Bill.

I still believe that the phrase,

“may pose a risk to others”,

will cause confusion. Professor Löfstedt actually recommended exemption from Health and Safety law for,

“those self-employed people whose work activities pose no potential risk of harm to others”,

which is what the noble Baroness herself just quoted. There was no “may” about it.

It may be that the impact will be minimal because, even under current legislation, there is evidence that a significant number of self-employed people do not think the Health and Safety at Work etc. Act applies to them. In one piece of qualitative research, only five out of 60 people interviewed thought that they had any health and safety obligations. Not a single one of them responded to say that this change would make a difference to their working practices.

The regulations may be more about perception than a real change, as stated by Professor Löfstedt. In one sense, I hope that is correct, and that health and safety at work will not diminish. However, perceptions are extremely important, and these regulations may encourage the perception that not only is health and safety a burden but that it is respectable to avoid obligation. There is still potential for self-employed people to assess incorrectly whether the exemption applies to them. The Health and Safety Executive guidelines—to which, again, the Minister referred—are still in preparation, so we do not know what impact or coverage they will have.

With approximately 266,000 new businesses being established each year, we do not know what impact these regulations will have on them. As the impact assessment points out:

“The newly self-employed will still need to spend some time determining whether they are exempt under the proposals”.

I hope it will be made clear, in communicating information about these regulations, that there are still more than 40 sets of regulations that apply to the self-employed, either explicitly or in more general regulations. For example, the Reporting of Injuries, Diseases and Dangerous Occurrences Regulations, known as RIDDOR, will still apply. When I was preparing my report on fatalities in the construction industry, I was concerned about the low level of reporting of accidents and injuries under RIDDOR. It was quite clear that hospitals were more likely to know the extent of occurrences under RIDDOR than the reporting mechanism itself. It was also clear that there was a pattern that low levels of reporting on minor injuries also saw a higher proportion of serious injuries and fatalities. I realise that these comments apply to construction, which is not an exempt industry under these proposals, but I am making the point that, if anything, there is a problem of underreporting, which can lead to more accidents. It is in the interests of government and the taxpayer, as well as the self-employed person, to be conscious of the costs to the health service and the DWP of any increase in accidents at work. This is why I remain concerned about the policy of exempting people from an Act that has served and is serving this nation well.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, it is very clear from what the noble Baroness has said that the health and safety of the English language are at risk. I should like an assurance from my noble friend that the word “probabilistic” will never appear again in any document or on the Floor of this House. I should like an assurance that she will take some time during the Recess to distribute to everyone within her department a copy of Sir Ernest Gowers’ Plain Words. May we also have a resolution that, when we come back in the autumn, acronyms will be banned?

[Lord Kennedy of Southwark (Lab)]

My Lords, I agree entirely with the comments of my noble friend Baroness Donaghy. She is absolutely right to raise her concerns. I also want to raise the question of the agriculture industry. I know that this industry is prescribed; it is the most dangerous industry working today. There is a shocking level of drownings, electrocutions and other fatalities in this industry. It has a really appalling record. I hope the noble Baroness can comment on that today because it really is an industry in which a lot of individuals work and in which some very serious injuries take place. Frankly, the regulations at present are not good enough or strong enough, and need strengthening in that industry.

Underoccupancy Charge: Carers

Lord Cormack Excerpts

Monday 10th November 2014 Lords Chamber

[Lord Freud]

The courts have gone through this in some detail now and found that it is reasonable for the Secretary of State to take the view that it is not practicable to provide a further exemption for an imprecise class of persons, and that the flexibility of the DHP scheme can be relied upon to provide the additional help.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

Does my noble friend not accept that this policy, which appears to be insensitively applied, does not sit happily with Conservative philosophy?

[Lord Freud]

We have aimed to get rid of some of the areas where people are just not taking part in the economic life of the country. One of the things that has been happening is that the proportion of people who have been outside the labour market and in social housing has dropped dramatically from a peak of 49% at the beginning of this Parliament to 41% now—the lowest-ever level. We need to look to help all people that we possibly can to take a full part in the economic life of this country.

Architecture and the Built Environment

Lord Cormack Excerpts

Monday 28th July 2014 Lords Chamber

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, we are all very much in debt to Sir Terry, but we are also in debt to the noble Baroness, Lady Whitaker, for drawing this important report to our attention and securing this all too brief debate.

When I wake up in the morning at home in Lincoln, I look to the front, to one of the most glorious buildings in Europe. But if I go to the top bedroom and look down the hill, I see some of the worst excrescences of the 1960s and 1970s. Round the Brayford Pool, where the university has developed wonderfully, some of the buildings are, frankly, deeply disappointing. They are on the site of wonderful Victorian warehouses that would have made the most marvellous student accommodation.

I will talk very briefly about the heritage aspect of this important report. I remember over 40 years ago when I first became involved in the heritage movement those marvellous words of Sir John Betjeman, who galvanised people:

“Goodbye to old Bath! We who loved you are sorry.

They’re carting you off by developer’s lorry”.

Of course, it was his stinging verse that helped to reverse that trend. We need to be conscious of the enormous value of our historic built environment. We do not want a repetition of the tearing down of the terraces of Liverpool, the rape of Worcester and Gloucester and the despoliation of the lower town in Lincoln 40 or 50 years ago.

What I hope we can take from this report, among other things, is the message that it is often still better to adopt and adapt than to tear down. There is a great deal to be said for trying to get life back into our cities. Where there is life, there is less crime. So much could be done to adapt and build over the shop, as it were. So much could be done to bring well designed new buildings side by side with adapted older buildings to give pulsating life to our towns and cities.

It is to this that Sir Terry’s report points us. He has sections on the economic benefit of heritage. He has sections on the importance of our historic built environment. If in the few minutes that each of us has at our disposal tonight we could help to underline some of the messages of this seminal report, the noble Baroness will indeed have performed a signal service.