Northern Ireland (Ministerial Appointment Functions) Regulations 2023

Lord Collins of Highbury Excerpts

Thursday 7th September 2023 Grand Committee

[Lord Bruce of Bennachie (LD)]

I thank the Minister for his introduction and obviously wholly support him in what he is required to do. I have just a couple of issues to raise. We were having an informal discussion about one of them, but it would be useful if the Minister could put on the record just what the process is for the confirmation.

Secondly, there is rather a paucity of people present for this debate, including representatives from Northern Ireland, and that is the nub of our problem. The reality is that Ministers, including the noble Lord, should not have to be doing this. It is a total betrayal of the proper interests of the people of Northern Ireland that this is not being decided by their democratically elected politicians. The Minister even hinted at the fact that it is creating problems. There are vacancies which have not easily been filled and that is affecting the functions.

I wonder how many more times we can go through this process before this Government, or another Government, will have to initiate a change. To my mind—I will say this explicitly—the Democratic Unionist Party may be unionist but it is certainly not democratic, because the reality is that it is not representing the people of Northern Ireland and not even representing the people who voted for it. But it is denying the majority of the people of Northern Ireland effective governance and that is causing real hardship, real difficulty and real suffering.

Finally, the argument put forward is that they are not going to go back until their seven tests are met, yet those tests are entirely irreconcilable. They are not achievable. They are not actually possible. On that basis, we are left asking, “Is there any intention of them returning or any circumstances under which they will?” I know that the Minister has many conversations and dialogues, but I do not know whether he feels that we have any chance of getting the Executive and the Assembly back. We cannot go on doing this year in, year out, without addressing the problem and doing something about it. I know that that is not the subject of this debate—I absolutely support what the Minister is trying to do—but I would be grateful if he could briefly tell us about the process for appointments.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, I, too, start by echoing those sentiments. Obviously, the solution is to get the Stormont Government and the Assembly up and running. In yesterday’s Oral Questions in the other place, this issue was specifically addressed. The Minister there responded to my right honourable friend Hilary Benn, who asked what plans there are and what conversations are being had, by saying that conversations with the DUP are constantly ongoing and that some progress is apparently being made. I hope that the Minister here can echo that positive side of things because the solution rests with getting the democratic institutions back up and running.

I turn to the specifics of the SI. I am sure that it is good practice and an ongoing practice for all relevant departments to do this but, certainly when we see that the specific urgent appointments include the Agricultural Wages Board and the Labour Relations Agency, I just want to be reassured that the practice of consulting properly with stakeholders, in particular with the trade unions concerned in Northern Ireland, is taking place.

With those few comments, I will leave it to the Minister to respond.

[Lord Caine (Con)]

I am grateful to the noble Lords, Lord Bruce of Bennachie and Lord Collins of Highbury, for their contributions to this SI debate, which is definitely a record, it being the shortest I have had to deal with since becoming a Northern Ireland Office Minister. I am sorry that some colleagues from Northern Ireland could not be present today.

On the couple of points that were made, I echo entirely both noble Lords’ comments in respect of getting Stormont back up and running at the earliest opportunity. The noble Lord, Lord Bruce, is right that the current situation is not sustainable and that the arrangements for governing Northern Ireland are not right for the long term. We need to return to a proper, stable, functioning devolved Government, as set out in the 1998 agreement.

As far as progress is concerned, I can say that, yes, progress is being made. We all know the reasons why the Democratic Unionist Party withdrew its Ministers last year. We are working hard. Obviously, we achieved the Windsor Framework in February this year; we are now working hard to clarify and address any outstanding concerns. As my right honourable friend made clear in the other place yesterday, conversations are taking place constantly and are ongoing. I myself held a round of discussions with each of the Northern Ireland political parties shortly before the Summer Recess. The Secretary of State is continuing with that. Obviously, conversations with the Irish Government took place last week at the British-Irish Association conference. We are continuing the dialogue. Naturally, I cannot put a timetable on this, but it is pressing and we need a return as quickly as possible; we are working flat out towards that end.

On the process for making these appointments, the devolved Northern Ireland government departments will continue to run the recruitment processes in accordance with the Commissioner for Public Appointments for Northern Ireland code of practice. In direct response to the noble Lord, Lord Collins, that enables consultation with a wide range of partners, but ultimately it is for the department to run the process. We are not interfering in or taking over in that sense. The role of the Secretary of State is simply to substitute for what would normally be done by a Minister in charge of the relevant Northern Ireland department. The process will run in exactly the same way it would if devolution were up and running. The only difference is that the sign-off will not be a Northern Ireland Minister but—unfortunately, in the circumstances in which we find ourselves—the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland.

It is interesting that a number of the appointments identified in this SI were dealt with by the UK Government four years ago when Sinn Féin was keeping the institutions of the Assembly down between 2017 and 2020. A number of those appointments were made at the time, and they have run their four-year course. We unfortunately find ourselves having to repeat the same exercise. Like the noble Lords, Lord Bruce and Lord Collins, I sincerely hope that we do not have to do this again and that we can achieve a situation in which the institutions are fully functioning and up and running, and the Belfast agreement, which we all strongly support, is implemented in full for the good of all the people of Northern Ireland.

Northern Ireland

Lord Collins of Highbury Excerpts

Monday 7th February 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Caine (Con)]

My Lords, I am very grateful to my noble friend. Unfortunately, I do not share his characterisation of the Northern Ireland (Ministers, Elections and Petitions of Concern) Bill, which I believe will lead to greater resilience and stability for decision-making within Northern Ireland. Over the last few days, my right honourable friend the Secretary of State has been engaging intensively and has had a number of discussions with party leaders, Members of Parliament, Members of the Assembly and the Irish Government in order to seek a resolution of the issues that have led to the collapse of the Assembly. In particular, the Government are deeply committed to resolving the issues around the implementation of the protocol, which have caused so much damage across Northern Ireland. The legislation to which my noble friend referred should, I hope, complete its passage in the other place this evening, and we are working very hard to bring Royal Assent forward for that legislation as quickly as possible. My noble friend will be aware that the election is due to be on 5 May.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the Lord Speaker for granting this PNQ; given how important this issue is, we might have expected the Government to make a Statement. I share the view that the First Minister’s resignation is disheartening. We continue to urge the DUP to take up its place in the Executive for the remainder of this mandate. There are immediate challenges to be faced. An official public apology to the victims of historical institutional abuse was due to be delivered by the First Minister and Deputy First Minister on 11 March. What urgent conversations has the Secretary of State had with the victims, the Northern Ireland parties and the Executive Office to ensure that these victims are not let down yet again? Will the Government now take responsibility for their protocol, which the Prime Minister negotiated and put in place? What practical, long-term solutions are the Government looking at? Ministers must now ensure that Northern Irish communities and businesses have a voice in any future negotiations. I hope the Minister will tell us how this will be done.

[Lord Caine (Con)]

I assure the noble Lord that discussions about the protocol have been taking place with the Northern Ireland Executive. I chaired a meeting of the Northern Ireland protocol contact group with the First and Deputy First Ministers only last week, which I think was the seventh such meeting that has taken place. There has been engagement between the Foreign Secretary and the leaders of the Northern Ireland Executive, as well as with the Secretary of State. There has been a lot of discussion around these issues. Regarding long-term solutions, the noble Lord will be aware that the Government produced their Command Paper last July. This set out some practical solutions to the issues of the protocol. The Foreign Secretary has had a number of meetings with Maroš Šefčovič. They had two telephone calls recently—one was supposed to be a meeting but, because of Covid isolation, it had to be done on the telephone. They are due to meet again this week, so the Government are taking these matters very seriously. When I was a special adviser in Northern Ireland, I did quite a lot of work on the issue of victims of historical institutional abuse. I am aware of its importance, but it is primarily a matter for the Northern Ireland Executive to take forward.