Arms Exports to Saudi Arabia

Lord Collins of Highbury Excerpts

Tuesday 25th June 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords—

[Lord Deben (Con)]

My Lords, could we not turn things round the other way and say that we are not going to grant licences unless there is a very clear argument that a particular licence is acceptable, rather than what we are doing at the moment, which seems to be that, unless you can find a very good example or reason not to, you grant the licence? Saudi Arabia is not a country we should be granting licences to, and it is time we said that.

[The Earl of Courtown]

My Lords, my noble friend makes a point regarding the granting of licences and how we should go about doing so in the future. As I have already said, we are considering the judgment that was laid down. We are not granting any new licences to Saudi Arabia or its coalition partners for items that could be used in the conflict in Yemen. We will be considering all these matters over the next few weeks.

[Lord Collins of Highbury]

My Lords—

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

My Lords, is the suspension of any new licences for equipment not rendered a nonsense if existing integrated training and engagements are carried out by the British and Saudi air forces? These have included Operation Green Flag, which concluded in December last year and of which Major General Haidar bin Rafie Al-Omari, the commander, said:

“The Green Flag exercise involves all our air force combat systems supporting Operation Decisive Storm and Operation Restoring Hope (in Yemen)”.


He added:

“The British Royal Air Force aims to integrate all combat systems, including air combat, air support and electronic warfare”.


Will the review ensure that not only equipment licences but current training are suspended?

[The Earl of Courtown]

My Lords, the noble Lord has made a number of points. The fact is that, as far as existing UK military personnel are concerned, we are providing information, advice and training to help Saudi Arabia minimise threats as well as sharing techniques for minimising civilian casualties. All UK personnel remain under UK command and control. I am not aware of the exercise mentioned by the noble Lord, but I will of course ask my officials about it.

[Lord Collins of Highbury]

My Lords, the Minister talked about informed decisions. Noble Lords have alluded to the fact that many in this House have raised concerns about arms exports because of evidence—presented by the UN and others—of clear breaches of humanitarian law. The judgment by the Court of Appeal should not be considered only in terms of future arms sales; we should be looking at the process that led to this Government disregarding evidence of breaches of humanitarian law.

[The Earl of Courtown]

My Lords, we did not disregard evidence of breaches of humanitarian law. We took note of what was said by NGOs and the UN panel of experts as well as what JIAT has reported following its investigations. The Ministry of Defence also monitors all alleged IHL violations using all available information from a great variety of sources.