Finance (No. 3) Bill

Debate between Lord Coaker and Catherine West

3rd reading: House of Commons & Report stage: House of Commons
Tuesday 8th January 2019 Commons Chamber

[Vernon Coaker (Gedling) (Lab)]

I support the two new clauses. Unlike the hon. Member for Torbay (Kevin Foster), I think that they are very measured. They simply ask the Government to review the impact of the Bill on poverty and inequality.

I do not know what other Members think, but let me describe what I think the vast majority of people in all our constituencies believe, and what they believe this Parliament should be saying and doing. They believe that the current levels of inequality in our country are simply and utterly unacceptable. They believe that the levels of child poverty are simply and utterly unacceptable. They are not interested in someone being able to tell them that there are 2 million children living in terrible poverty, or 1,850,000 children living in absolute or, indeed, relative poverty. That is what those people are sick of, and what I am sick of, and what this Parliament should be reflecting.

Across the country, people are asking, “Can you not do any better? Can you not do something about the fact that there are still pensioners in one of the richest countries in the world who cannot heat themselves properly in cold weather, including at Christmas?” They are asking, “What is Parliament doing when we see children living in absolute poverty who cannot afford to go to school, with shoes and clothes and food being given to them as an act of charity by people in those schools?” They are not interested in whether the figures have gone up by 0.5% or down by 1%. They are interested in what this Parliament is doing about it, and what we are saying.

All these new clauses do is say to the Government, “If you believe, for example, that clause 5, through allowing people to keep more of their income when in work, addresses some of those issues, let’s have a review to see whether or not that is the case.” That is what people would expect.

I am sick of this myself. When I drive around, not just my constituency but the country, I see enormous wealth. I am not talking about people who have worked hard and done well, which we all want to see; I am talking about massive accumulated wealth—not just income—with people able to afford to pay astronomical sums on different ways of life, while half a mile down the street there is a kid in a household that cannot afford to put any proper food on the table.

[Catherine West (Hornsey and Wood Green) (Lab)]

Does my hon. Friend agree that it is terrible to think of all the many places in the country where there are so many more food banks, and that the year-on-year increase the Trussell Trust has told us about is deeply worrying?

[Vernon Coaker]

That is right. Every Member of this House would no doubt say, “Isn’t it great that there are food banks and so many volunteers at them?” I agree with that; I agree that it is good to see in communities across this country, in every part of the UK, so many people who volunteer their time with others donating to them. What I object to is that food banks, which are there as a charity, are used as an instrument of public policy—they are used as a way of tackling poverty. What on earth have things come to in 2018 and 2019 when food banks are a public policy mechanism for dealing with poverty? They are supposed to be charitable organisations for people who have somehow slipped through the net, not places where someone at the DWP sends people with tokens. That is an absolute outrage, and this Parliament should be seething about it. In saying that, I do not decry the volunteers; this brings the very best out of people, but—goodness me—is that public policy now?

That is what the Minister should be addressing. The challenge that I think every Member of this House would make to the Government would be to ask what is being done to address these issues. We do not want some academic debate about a bit of research here or there which means that the hon. Member for Torbay can say, “There’s 1,000 fewer here and 2% less there.” The levels of poverty and inequality in our country are a fundamental disgrace; why are the Government not raging about that and doing something about it through their Budget?

Draft Environmental Protection (Microbeads) (England) Regulations 2017

Debate between Lord Coaker and Catherine West

Monday 18th December 2017 General Committees

[Vernon Coaker]

The hon. Member for North East Hampshire is absolutely right to say that the Committee is unanimous in welcoming these regulations, but clearly we are all impatient. We all want more to be done yesterday. Nobody is being churlish about welcoming these regulations, but it is incumbent on the Committee to challenge the Government to do even more. With that in mind, I welcome the action the Government are taking and their attempts to make progress.

The various notes about the regulations mention protecting the environment, and people have talked about “Blue Planet II” and so on, but this is not about protecting the environment; it is about saving the environment. We are at a crossroads as a country and globally, and we have to make some clear decisions. Unlike the hon. Gentleman, I have not watched the last episode of “Blue Planet II”, which deals with some of the major environmental consequences. One can watch it and feel that the situation is absolutely terrible and unbelievable and that we have to do something about it, but that is not enough. We are all shocked and horrified, which is why it is good that the Government have introduced these regulations.

The Minister was right, as was my hon. Friend the Member for Halifax, about encouraging consumer confidence. Consumers can make a huge difference, but they need information, so labelling is important, as it is in many areas, in enabling people to make particular choices when they go into a shop.

The Minister talked about our setting an example to other countries, which is absolutely right. Will she say a little more about how we intend to do that? We can do it through the various international bodies we belong to, notwithstanding Brexit. We can do it through the United Nations. However, the Government need a plan for how they intend to set the example. The regulations apply to England. I understand the devolved nature of these matters but if we are talking about a UK-wide approach, will the Minister explain how our actions relate to those being taken by Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland?

I want to say something to the hon. Member for North East Hampshire: is it not disappointing that, given the outrage in this country and the way in which everybody speaks about the need to protect the environment, not every single major cosmetic company has already taken voluntary action? That is not only disappointing; it is absolutely incredible. There are major cosmetic companies on the list. There is no secret about which have signed and which have not, because the information is on the impact assessment. It is brilliant that 70% have done so, but why not the other 28% or 30%? It is astonishing. The managing directors and shareholders will have stood up at their board meetings and talked about their social conscience and the need for companies to reflect on their social responsibilities. I bet many of them have watched “Blue Planet”, but that is not enough. That is why I welcome the regulations: they say to the small number of companies—just over a quarter of them—that have not voluntarily moved that we are going to legislate.

I hope this resonates loud and clear: it is not good enough in 2017—nearly 2018—for major companies that make large sums of money to ignore their social responsibilities when it comes to something that every single person in this country demands that we do more about. The Minister should name those companies—I will not do it, unless she wants me to do so—that are listed in the public information available to the Committee in the impact assessment. Big companies have not acted and they should be held to account.

[Catherine West (Hornsey and Wood Green) (Lab)]

Does my hon. Friend agree that ordinary citizens feel a real sense of urgency when they watch those programmes and become educated about the environment? However, there is a real lack of ambition in the extent of this proposal and in the industry’s willingness to match how passionately people feel about this.

[Vernon Coaker]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right, and that was the major contribution I wanted to make. We can talk about that passion for reform and say that it is a good thing. The 70% of the major cosmetics companies that have already taken action should be complimented and held up as examples of what can be done. They obviously have to make a profit and do all the things we expect in the market economy we live in. However, as I say—I cannot labour this point enough—big companies have a social responsibility. It is good that the Government are bringing the regulations forward, but in a sense it is not only disappointing but makes one deeply ashamed of some of the ways in which people operate. They watch these environmental programmes, see animals tangled up or being poisoned and feel as affected by it as we all are, yet they take decisions in those companies that fail to recognise those consequences.

I will make a couple of other points, which were also raised by my hon. Friend the Member for Halifax. Will the Minister say a little more about the plastic microbeads not included in the scope of the regulations? Will she also say a little more about the further work that will be done by the Hazardous Substances Advisory Committee to see what action can be taken on other categories of products that might contain microbeads? I think all of us want to see that done as quickly as possible.

As the Minister will know, the impact assessment talks of 680 tonnes of microbeads used each year in the UK. If each microbead is less than 0.5 mm in size, goodness only knows how many microbeads must be needed to make 680 tonnes; I do not even know how they would measure that. Anyway, it must be an incomprehensible number, and that is just for usage in the UK each year. Has the Minister made any assessment of how much the regulations before the Committee will reduce that 680 tonnes? I am one for concrete examples, and it would be interesting, if that amount has somehow been measured as 680 tonnes, to know whether there is a scientific estimate of what the reduction in that amount will be.

As I understand it, some major retailers have said that they will not sell their own brands from now on. In the time between now and when the regulations come into effect, will they still be able to sell brands other than those they have manufactured? In other words, can they stop selling their own brands but sell products made by somebody else?

I see it will be 21 days from when the regulations are made before many of them come into effect, and 60 days for the other bits. Will the Minister say a little more about how quickly, after the regulations come into force, we can expect trading standards to actually use the powers and take action against people who might not be adhering to the legislation? In other words, it is clearly 21 days—or 60 days for some—until the regulations come into force. How long does the Minister think the transition phase will be, between day one when the regulations come into force and every single one of those other 28% of companies complying with the legislation and not selling products containing microbeads?

The regulations make one think about the consequences for human health if sea creatures are eating these things. That point is beyond the scope of the regulations, but it is worth making. I will finish where I started. I hope that my remarks are in no way seen as my saying that the regulations are not important, because they really are. As my hon. Friend the Member for Halifax said, the Opposition support the regulations; I and other Committee members clearly support what the Government are doing on this, and there is clearly more work to be done on what is not included in the regulations.

The Government and Parliament need to use the regulations as an example of the sort of legislation that Parliament will pass if industry and others fail to put their own house in order. It should act as a wake-up call. It is not good enough to be horrified; people need to act. They need to act now.