Policing and Crime Bill

Lord Clinton-Davis Excerpts

Report: 1st sitting: House of Lords
Wednesday 30th November 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Clinton-Davis (Lab)]

I speak following the very courageous and relevant speech that we have just heard. I do not think that there can be any possible objection to strengthening the law, which is what is proposed. There can be no dispute at all that corrupt relationships between the police and newspapers are highly damaging to both, and they are unacceptable to the public, who must be able to trust both. In a democratic society, which I hope we are, it is absolutely vital that there should be trust in both, and the amendment simply seeks to bolster that position. I can see no objection at all to the purpose of the amendment. I ask anybody here to say what damage it could do to the law. In fact, I think that strengthening the law in this way is absolutely vital, and there should be no question about that.

For many years I practised in the criminal courts. I came across decent police officers who did not bend the truth at all, but I also came across certain police officers who were quite prepared to do exactly that, and in our society that is absolutely unacceptable. I hope that the Minister will appreciate how strongly those of us who have experience in this field feel about this.

I am pretty old now but I still attend this House, although some, including my wife, have some reservations about that. But I was particularly concerned about this issue. Everything which concerns the police is relevant to a democratic society. In my view, it is an absolute necessity as far as this is concerned. There is a gap at the moment, or there may be, that ought to be cured. Many people who have experience in this area recognise that. There should be no question about it.

[Lord Rosser]

My Lords, I will not detain the House for too long. As has been said, the amendment would require the Prime Minister to commission an independent inquiry into the operation of the police complaints system in respect of allegations of corrupt relationships between the police and newspaper organisations. It also provides that the inquiry would proceed only once the Attorney-General has determined that the inquiry, if conducted effectively and fairly, would not be likely to prejudice any ongoing relevant criminal investigations or court proceedings cases.

As has already been pointed out, in November 2012 the then Prime Minister reminded the victims of press intrusion that when he set up the Leveson inquiry he had also said that there would be a second stage to investigate wrongdoing in the press and the police, and that the Government remained committed to the inquiry as it was first established. However, real doubts about the Government’s willingness to honour that promise have arisen—hence this amendment. Those doubts have been increased by the Government’s recent decision to consult, including on whether to stick by the promises previously given by the then Prime Minister that there would be a Leveson stage 2.

Police and press relations is a significant area still to be addressed. Briefings by the police in the immediate aftermath of the Hillsborough tragedy had a profound adverse impact on the families who had lost loved ones, and on the thousands who had been at the match and returned home in a state of some trauma, only to read a few days later that the police were blaming them for the deaths of their friends and family. The media were also manipulated in the case of the Shrewsbury 24, and part 1 of the Leveson inquiry found unhealthy links between senior Met police officers and newspaper executives—links which led to resignations. There is also, on occasion, an issue around the nature of relationships between the police and the press at a more local level, where sometimes prior information appears to have been provided about a particular person to be arrested or a particular search carried out.

Honouring a repeated undertaking given by a Government through a Prime Minister, to victims in particular, and with all-party support, is the issue that this amendment seeks to address. If, having heard the Government’s response, the noble Baroness, Lady O’Neill, decides to seek the opinion of the House, we shall be voting in favour of the amendment.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Clinton-Davis]

Will the Minister indicate how long she envisages the inquiry will take and how many witnesses will come forward?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

The consultation finishes on 10 January. In terms of anything going forward, we will of course be informed and guided by the consultation and I would not at this point wish to put a timescale on the inquiry.

Calais Camps: Unaccompanied Minors

Lord Clinton-Davis Excerpts

Wednesday 19th October 2016 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My Lords, I confess to being 49 years of age and still not having wisdom teeth, but that probably says something about me. We are working very closely with the French authorities and their partner agencies to ensure that all those who come to the UK from the camps are eligible under the Dublin regulations. All individuals referred to the UK authorities by the FTDA are interviewed by French and UK officials and, where credible and clear documentary evidence of age is not available, criteria including physical appearance and demeanour are used as part of the interview process to assess age. That is the process in France and I want noble Lords to be quite clear that we are bound by the French system of assessing age in France. When those children come to the UK, we do not use dental X-rays to confirm the ages of those seeking asylum. The British Dental Association is vigorously opposed to them and has described them as inaccurate, inappropriate and unethical.

[Lord Clinton-Davis (Lab)]

Will the Minister assure the House that no minors are being treated illiberally or will be in the future?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

The noble Lord is absolutely right to ask that. We are primarily seeking to ensure that no minor is made more vulnerable in France, and that when they come here they are properly looked after in accordance with the safeguarding laws in this country, which are very stringent. That is exactly what we seek to do.

Immigration Bill

Lord Clinton-Davis Excerpts

Wednesday 9th March 2016 Lords Chamber

[The Lord Bishop of Durham]

My Lords, I support the amendment and endorse everything that has been said already, and reinforce the point that the General Synod had a major debate on this and overwhelmingly supported such a move.

Some of the saddest conversations I have ever had have been with asylum seekers who came to this country and thought they would be welcomed, but have felt unwelcome; who want to be able to uphold their human dignity and feel that the best way of doing that is to become contributors to this society. I would like to draw attention to proposed new subsection (2) and the phrase “voluntary work”. There should be paid work, absolutely, but I have talked to many asylum seekers who say, “I’m not even allowed to go and voluntarily help somebody else”. This is appalling. This amendment needs to be accepted.

[Lord Clinton-Davis (Lab)]

To deny those who came here at the turn of the century was abhorrent. Later on, before the Second World War, people came here as refugees and they were accepted. Of course, there was a minority of people who denied their status but they were not heard. The compelling voice of the majority prevailed and they were accepted. More than that, most of them have provided a huge benefit to this country and I hope the Government will recognise that.

What the Government are proposing is wrong-headed. The noble Lord, Lord Bates, is a decent man and I hope he will realise that there is a need here for second thoughts. As has been said already, the denial of hope, which this amounts to, is wrong. Hope must be compelling, and authoritative. We must permit some hope, as has already been said, to certain asylum seekers within the provisions of the amendment. The onus of disputing this must fall heavily upon the Government. I hope that ultimately, they will see sense because that is exactly what the majority of this House recognises—hope.

Airport Capacity in London

Lord Clinton-Davis Excerpts

Wednesday 16th December 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I would say first to my noble friend that 50 years ago, I certainly was not under the flight path, but I am one of those who, through issues of birth, are under the flight path now. Nevertheless, my noble friend raises the important issue of the UK economy. Let me assure him that the Government are committed to ensuring that the right decision is taken on south-east airport expansion and that a major determinant of that is to ensure the continued competitiveness of the UK.

[Lord Clinton-Davis (Lab)]

The Minister is fast earning a reputation for escaping entirely from responsibility. Purely for political purposes, the Government have dithered and dithered. Other airports in Europe, as has already been said, thrive while British aviation disappears. Is it not more important than anything that while the Government adopt their present stance, the country suffers?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

It is for others to judge the noble Lord’s first comment, but the Government take their responsibility very seriously, and that is why they are taking their time to ensure that the right decision, a considered decision, is taken on which of the three viable options should be moved forward. The Davies commission reported that new expansion needs to happen by 2030 and I assure the noble Lord and all other noble Lords that whatever decision is taken will ensure that that timetable will be met.

Airport Capacity

Lord Clinton-Davis Excerpts

Monday 14th December 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I thank my noble friend for his questions. He has been a consistent and vociferous questioner on this issue; indeed, he has another Question on the subject on Wednesday. He mentioned a particular scoreline. To get political for a moment, I certainly hope that there is a 1-0 scoreline when it comes to the May election in favour of my honourable friend in the other place.

My noble friend talked about the impact on the economy. I agree with him, and the Government feel very strongly that there is a need to make a decision that is based on the right decisions for the economy, the country and, as I have said specifically in my Statement, the environment.

We are now well connected. As my noble friend points out, there are constraints and they are beginning to bite. By 2040, all major south-eastern airports will be full. Failing to address this would cost passengers between £21 billion and £23 billion, and of course there would be wider indications for the economy, estimated to be in the region of £30 billion to £45 billion. However, with regard to the timetable of summer 2016 that I have talked about, the Davies commission reported that, whatever decision or option was chosen, we would need to complete by 2030. I assure the noble Lord that this would still allow for that decision to be taken and the appropriate expansion to take place in good time to meet the 2030 deadline.

[Lord Clinton-Davis (Lab)]

My Lords, this is an absolute abdication of responsibility. British aviation has been put in a secondary position compared with other vital industries. What has been advanced is the interests of the Conservative Party, and as a result our competitors are going to be richly rewarded. Putting aside the Minister’s discomfort, should we not consider how best British aviation can recover from this grievous blow? Meanwhile, words hurriedly uttered by the Minister are no alternative to government policy.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I assure the noble Lord that we are moving forward. I have talked of the timetable that we are moving to. As I said earlier, it will ensure that we meet the required deadline. Whatever decision is taken, the Government have accepted in principle the findings of the Davies commission. Three options were put forward and none was discarded by the commission. We are ensuring that all three stay on the table, and we are firmly committed to south-eastern airport expansion. The important thing is to ensure that all considerations are taken into account. With the timetable that we have outlined, we will be able to proceed forward. It will be a great asset for UK plc to ensure that we reach a decision quickly on south-eastern airport expansion capacity in summer next year.

Emergency Services: Central London

Lord Clinton-Davis Excerpts

Wednesday 18th November 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bates]

The noble Lord makes a good point about the relationship between the fire service and the police. At the present time we have out to consultation a proposal for greater collaboration between all the emergency services, but particularly between fire and police. That consultation is being undertaken by the Department for Communities and Local Government and will report shortly. That will have a bearing on our future ability to respond to emergencies in a more connected way.

[Lord Clinton-Davis (Lab)]

Is it not right that our own defences in this country need to be strengthened as a result of the tragic events in Paris? Is it not right that those appalling scenes vividly depict the need for community action? What are we doing in that respect?

[Lord Bates]

This is very important. If we are going to tackle these people who would threaten our liberties, we need to work with the communities. That is why we have put forward our counterterrorism strategy, which my noble friend Lord Ahmad is leading, and we will bring forward legislation on that. Louise Casey has been asked to look particularly at what can be done to improve community cohesion. I totally agree with the noble Lord that the police and everyone in these communities should be working together to tackle this scourge.

Syrian Refugees

Lord Clinton-Davis Excerpts

Tuesday 27th October 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bates]

On the first point, about what we are doing to help in the country, of course, that is absolutely right. That is the position which the British Government have taken. We are saying that we do not want people to make this perilous journey across sea and land. We want people to stay in safe places within those countries. That is the reason why we are giving £1.1 billion—more than any other country in cash terms apart from the United States—and why we are urging our European partners to give another €10 billion to help in that area. We want to stop people feeling the need to make that journey and put themselves and their families at risk.

[Lord Clinton-Davis (Lab)]

What I cannot quite understand is what the Government are doing to raise this issue specifically in Europe. It is absolutely essential that people who have suffered dire treatment should be treated with more humanity than is the case at present.

[Lord Bates]

I assure the noble Lord that that is exactly what the Government are doing. We are urging our European partners to do more at source in this area. We are working with international partners, for instance in the UN Security Council, to pass the resolution which enabled our HMS “Richmond” to go into Libyan waters to start tackling the people smugglers at source before people make that dangerous crossing, so we are absolutely committed to working with European and international partners to try to find a solution to this awful, heart-wrenching situation.

Immigration

Lord Clinton-Davis Excerpts

Thursday 15th October 2015 Lords Chamber

Asked by

[Lord Clinton-Davis]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether that part of the Home Secretary’s speech at the recent Conservative Party Conference dealing with immigration represents their policy on that issue.

[The Minister of State, Home Office (Lord Bates) (Con)]

My Lords, the Home Secretary’s speech on 6 October set out the Government’s immigration policy. Britain does not need net migration in hundreds of thousands every year. We will introduce a new approach to asylum with strict new rules for people who abuse the system in Britain and greater generosity for people in parts of the world where we know they need our help.

[Lord Clinton-Davis (Lab)]

Does the Minister consider that the use of inflammatory language about refugees by both the Home Secretary—and the Prime Minister, referring as he did to a “swarm of people”—has contributed in any way to a resolution of that issue? Why cannot the Government be more welcoming to genuine refugees, enabling them to play a truly meaningful role in the society in which they live, here and in Europe?

[Lord Bates]

The noble Lord is right about language. Of course, his Question was specifically about that speech. It is important to remember that that speech was preceded, at the Home Secretary’s invitation, by a very moving account from my noble friend Lady Helic about her journey from war-torn Bosnia to this country. The Home Secretary concluded her speech by paying tribute to the people who moved here down the years and generations and,

“played a massive part in making this country what it is ... We have a proud history of relieving the distressed and helping the vulnerable—whether … through our military, our diplomacy, our humanitarian work … Let Britain stand up for the displaced, the persecuted and the oppressed. For the people who need our help and protection the most”.

I think that the Home Secretary was absolutely right.

Airports: London

Lord Clinton-Davis Excerpts

Tuesday 13th October 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

It is for the very reason that my noble friend has articulated—the importance of making a considered decision which is not subject to judicial review—that the Government are fully considering all the evidence in the commission’s report and will report on their final decision in due course.

[Lord Clinton-Davis (Lab)]

Does the Minister appreciate that while we prevaricate over the choice of the extra runways, Paris, Schiphol and Frankfurt are going ahead inevitably and inexorably? Are we not paying a very heavy price for the delay that is happening at the moment? I am delighted that, as former Ministers with responsibility for aviation, the noble Lord, Lord Spicer, and I both have no doubt about what should happen.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

The noble Lord raises an important point about retaining the competitiveness of London alongside those who are competing for business across Europe. He referred to his experience and that of my noble friend. It is for that very reason that I am sure he would agree that the Government need to ensure that they make a considered response that is not open to judicial review.

Syria: Christian Refugees

Lord Clinton-Davis Excerpts

Wednesday 9th September 2015 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Berridge]

My Lords—

[Lord Clinton-Davis (Lab)]

My Lords—

[Lord Wright of Richmond (CB)]

My Lords—

[The Lord Privy Seal (Baroness Stowell of Beeston) (Con)]

My Lords, it is not necessary for the noble Lord, Lord Clinton-Davis, to sit down because it is the turn of the Labour Benches.

[Lord Clinton-Davis]

My Lords, people of many faiths and none have sought refuge from oppression not only in Syria but elsewhere. Accordingly, are they not entitled to expect to be regarded in a much more benign and civilised way than this Government have exhibited so far?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

As I said yesterday from this Dispatch Box, and as my noble friend the Leader of the House said, this country has a history of showing mercy and tolerance. Also underlying our policy is showing humanity towards any persecuted minority or people across the world. We continue to do so, and that applies no differently when dealing with the Syrian refugee crisis.