Gaza Protests: Anti-terrorism Legislation

Debate between Lord Clarke of Nottingham and Lord Hanson of Flint

Wednesday 10th September 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hanson of Flint (Lab)]

The noble Lord should know that 20,000 people marched in support of Palestine in a recent demonstration, with totally peaceful activity and no arrests. There was no support for and encouragement of the type of activity undertaken by Palestine Action. As Ministers, we received an assessment from the Joint Terrorism Analysis Centre which said that it meets the tests of the Terrorism Act 2000. Are we to ignore that?

The powers in this legislation mean that to support Palestine Action publicly is to commit an offence. If the police, as they did on 6 September, make judgments to make arrests, those arrests and potential charges will be put by the CPS before the court and an individual will be charged, convicted and sentenced accordingly. It does not matter whether they are elderly or otherwise; the offence is defined very clearly under the Terrorism Act and the threshold for that Act has been met. If I am predictable in saying so, it is because I am fulfilling a duty on behalf of the UK to keep businesses and people safe from violent terrorist activity.

[Lord Clarke of Nottingham (Con)]

My Lords, a perfectly good case can be made for proscribing Palestine Action, and I agree with that decision, but does the Minister know that in this country there has always been discretion not to prosecute in a case where there is no public interest in arresting and prosecuting? Does he not accept that what is happening with the arrest of hundreds of harmless old ladies simply for holding a placard is exactly what the demonstrators want the police to do? They see it as giving valuable positive publicity to their views on Gaza and the survival of the proscribed organisation. Could he at least discuss with the police authorities whether it is really in the public interest to carry on using these massive police resources for what is a counterproductive effect?

[Lord Hanson of Flint (Lab)]

The police do have discretion; it is not for Ministers to order arrests or bring forward charges. It is for the police at a local level to interpret the legislation that has been passed overwhelmingly by the House of Commons and this House to proscribe the organisation. I say “proscribe the organisation” because, on advice, the organisation has met those tests.

If people wish to protest in support of Palestine, they can do so. They can march, protest, criticise Israel and make their views known on Palestine, but Palestine Action has crossed that threshold. As the noble Lord is a former Home Secretary, he will know that it is now for the police to make their judgments on that, and for the CPS to decide whether charges should be brought forward and for individuals to be prosecuted accordingly. We have put in place legislation that draws a line in the sand on the actions of Palestine Action. I hope people will not mistakenly support those actions while still supporting the state of Palestine, if they wish to, and making any criticism they wish to of the State of Israel.

Illegal Migration: Pull Factors

Debate between Lord Clarke of Nottingham and Lord Hanson of Flint

Tuesday 22nd July 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hanson of Flint (Lab)]

The noble Lord is absolutely right that we need to reduce the anxiety and toxicity around this issue. I reassure him that, first and foremost, the Government are committed to meeting their international obligations, which include asylum claims legitimately put before the United Kingdom. He may have noticed that an immigration White Paper was produced recently by the Government, which raises a number of issues. We need to look at pull factors, certainly, but the Government are also taking very strong action on cross-border, cross-channel issues, including the removal of people who have failed their asylum claims, the removal of foreign national criminals and the removal of individuals who are illegally working in the United Kingdom, as well increasing prosecutions. There is a range of measures, and we discuss this internally in government every day of the week.

[Lord Clarke of Nottingham (Con)]

Immigration is a global crisis, with every wealthy country in the world suffering social and political pressures from unsustainable levels of immigration from poorer countries. Do the Government therefore agree that there needs to be international co-operation involving the British Government before this can ever be solved? Are the Government engaging with the 15 or so European countries and the European Commission in the discussions that they are having about trying to close the southern European border? A policy on that subject would greatly reduce the number of people reaching the camps in Calais. Are the Government involved in that?

[Lord Hanson of Flint (Lab)]

The noble Lord is absolutely right. In April and May this year, the Government were involved, along with 50 nations across the European Union and elsewhere, in examining the drive factors—rather than the pull factors that the noble Lord, Lord Empey, mentioned—that are pushing people away from areas of conflict, hunger or starvation into the Mediterranean and beyond, into Europe. The Government are looking very strongly, with European partners, at how we can work internationally in Europe and in the United Kingdom to ensure that we tackle those drive factors as well. That is why we have had the Calais Group of Belgium, Holland, France and the United Kingdom, and the recent discussions with the Germans last week and with the President of France only a couple of weeks ago. That international action is absolutely essential.

Migrants: Hotel Accommodation

Debate between Lord Clarke of Nottingham and Lord Hanson of Flint

Tuesday 1st July 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hanson of Flint (Lab)]

I am grateful to the noble Lord. We took an early decision, as he knows, to work with the local authority, Kent, to ensure that safeguarding was in place, and that is in place now. There are still a number of unaccounted migrant children, who precede this Government’s responsibilities, and we are making efforts to track them down as best we can. I assure him that we are taking every step we can to make sure that that situation does not occur again.

[Lord Clarke of Nottingham (Con)]

Are the Government making any progress in their search for safe third countries where applicants for asylum could have their case processed before being admitted to this country at all? That is the only policy they have that would avoid the need for hotel accommodation almost completely in future. Is this still the Government’s policy? Is there any prospect of progress being made in the near future?

[Lord Hanson of Flint (Lab)]

The Government, as the noble Lord knows, have been discussing a number of matters with a number of countries. I cannot bring him up to date today on the final details of those projects. We have scrapped the Rwanda scheme, which was costly, ineffective and did not remove people. We are continuing to work with our French, Dutch and Belgian colleagues to look at how we can stem the flow of people coming here through irregular migration, so that we can look at proper asylum assessments and proper removals, in conjunction with those European countries most impacted in the European community.