Royal Navy: Type 31e Frigate

Lord Clark of Windermere Excerpts

Thursday 6th September 2018 Lords Chamber

[Earl Howe]

I hope to reassure the noble Lord on those points. The contracts that were being competed for, and which have now been recommenced, were to pay for a series of design deliverables to support the main procurement contract; they were not the main assessment of industry’s ability to deliver the manufacture programme. We still believe that industry will be able to meet that challenge, and the procurement process, despite having been recommenced, is now proceeding at pace.

[Lord Clark of Windermere (Lab)]

My Lords, is the Minister really confident that the 31e will be in service by 2023—in just over four years’ time? Can he give us any example of the Royal Navy ordering a ship that has not yet been designed and picking it up in four years?

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, this is the first warship design and build programme for which the UK has competed in a generation, but based on our understanding of the market, which has developed considerably since this time last year during all the engagement with industry that we have enjoyed, we believe that industry can rise to that challenge. We are committed to starting the new procurement, as I say, at pace.

NATO: Member State Spending

Lord Clark of Windermere Excerpts

Wednesday 1st February 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Clark of Windermere (Lab)]

My Lords, I am delighted to take part in this debate and I congratulate my noble friend Lord Touhig on calling it. I am also delighted to follow my old friend the noble Lord, Lord Jopling, and my noble friend Lord Murphy because they have shown their deep commitment to issues of defence over the years, as I hope I have as well. Looking back, I realise that it is now 37 years since I was on the Front Bench in the other place responsible for defence, and over that time I have seen many changes. I want to reflect on some of them this evening and perhaps give some indication of the dangers we might face in the immediate future. But I certainly agree with the basic point that since it was formed, NATO has been the cornerstone of our defence spending and activity. Indeed, without NATO it would have been very difficult for us to do many of our defence activities.

As I say, we have seen many changes over the years. The noble Lord, Lord Jopling, and I remember clearly the Cold War. Being on the NATO PA during those years, I well recall the horror and the difficulties of trying at least to engage with the Russians, although we as parliamentarians were able to achieve some success in ways that were not always easy for Governments. I thought that was very helpful.

The amazing thing is that the cornerstone of NATO is Article 5, which sets out the right of a nation to assistance if its sovereignty is under attack. It is worth reflecting for a moment on the fact that the first time Article 5 was used was in circumstances completely contrary to those for which it had been envisaged. It was used after 9/11. The most powerful country in the world was the recipient of that assurance from the rest of NATO. But the uncanny thing is that NATO was designed to counter enemy action by other states, but it was not a state that forced the invocation of Article 5, it was a terrorist attack. That change means we need another dimension to the way we look at our defence efforts.

I will reflect again on the work of the noble Lord, Lord Jopling, who did so much in NATO. With the collapse of communism, the emancipation of the countries of eastern Europe and the symbolic fall of the Berlin Wall, things changed and perhaps we relaxed a little too much. Perhaps we ought to have been examining the role and the nature of NATO because the demands being made of it had changed. It is interesting that when these nations gained their independence, the very first thing most of them did was to bear in mind the remit we often mention in this House, which is that the first duty of any state is to protect its citizens. So what did they do? They all ran to NATO. Indeed, before they got into NATO, most were accepted as members of the NATO Parliamentary Assembly. The noble Lord, Lord Jopling, and I had a bipartisan approach to that across both Governments and both sets of parliamentarians. We led the way and paved opinion in that respect. That was a very worthwhile job for parliamentarians to do. It is interesting that those nations applied to NATO; they did not initially apply to the European Union. I will come back to that a little later.

I am not going to debate whether the 2% is 2.1% or 2.08%, because that has been raised. I think it is above 2%. I accept that it is within the NATO rules, but the basic point my noble friend Lord Murphy made was that it is not as much as it had been previously. That is the key point to bear in mind.

Having made that point, I will develop one or two things. For five years I was the shadow Secretary of State for Defence. In that time I repositioned the Labour Party, with the help of colleagues. As my noble friends have said, Labour Governments have always been loyal to the defence of this country, because it is our country just as it is every other citizen’s country. Therefore, one of my basic desires was to develop as far as possible—it was not always possible—a bipartisan approach to defence. I do not see anything wrong with that. If we are talking about an issue as fundamental as defence, of course we have to criticise and hold whichever Government to account, but there is no reason why we should not be working together for the common good and safety of the British people.

It is a question not only of the money spent, but often of attitude. I believe that the British Armed Forces are second to none in the world. They are absolutely brilliant. I have seen them in action—I mean in action—all over the world. The one thing that taught me was that this was because of not only the training and skill of the Armed Forces, but the equipment. In some areas of action I felt that not many countries did not have the equipment we had to do the job. The Americans are excluded from that; we did not have the variety they had.

When one then looks at the figures, it is mind-boggling that after Brexit, at current spending, 80% of NATO’s budget will be provided by non-European Union members. Surely the Europeans cannot let that continue. Although we saw times 15 or 20 years ago when there were moves for Europe to develop its own defence, a number of us had to fight quite hard—Governments of both parties were on the same side on this—to argue that we could not forsake NATO. NATO was still the bedrock. The situation I just described reinforces the point made by everyone who has spoken in the debate so far: we must get the European Union countries to increase their contribution to at least 2%.

I end with a point on change. We are talking about not only hardware or armed forces when we talk about security. The lesson of Article 5 and 9/11 is that we have to fight Daesh and terrorist groups wherever they are. That means there is also a challenge for things such as cyberwarfare and intelligence. I approve of the Government’s £1.6 billion joint security fund. That is the right way to do it. It probably has to be integrated more into the defence budget as time goes on, but that might happen. My key point is we need to work together. We have to be prepared for changes, especially after Brexit.

Afghanistan: Interpreters

Lord Clark of Windermere Excerpts

Tuesday 10th December 2013 Lords Chamber

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, I have seen the article in the Times today. As I said to the noble Lord earlier, we go about this in a very similar way to other countries. So far only a very small number have been offered relocation in Germany.

[Lord Clark of Windermere (Lab)]

My Lords, many fair-minded people in this House and outside are completely perplexed by the Government’s response in this respect. We do not seem to be treating our interpreters fairly, and many of us feel that the Government have taken a strange decision. Can the Minister explain in words of one syllable why we are not treating our interpreters in Afghanistan in the way that our colleague countries are doing, and as we did in Iraq?

Afghanistan

Lord Clark of Windermere Excerpts

Wednesday 17th July 2013 Lords Chamber

Asked by

[Lord Clark of Windermere]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what plans they have for British troops in Afghanistan after 2014.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Ministry of Defence (Lord Astor of Hever)]

My Lords, as part of the United Kingdom’s commitment to the Afghan National Army Officer Academy, the UK will initially contribute around 90 of the 120 mentors. This will diminish over time as the Afghans increasingly work independently. In addition, we will retain sufficient force numbers to ensure that we properly protect our adviser footprint after 2014. Until NATO planning has matured, it is premature to speculate what other residual military presence the UK will have after 2014.

[Lord Clark of Windermere]

I thank the Minister for that Answer. Although I fully support the withdrawal of combat troops after 2014, I can understand the Government’s reluctance to be absolutely precise about the numbers remaining thereafter. However, does he accept that the new, large Afghan army will still be short of a number of military facilities, such as close air support, fuel and food delivery, and medevac? If we are to ensure that the sacrifices of our soldiers are not in vain, will the Government ensure that we help the new Afghan army in those areas in which it is short?

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, I am very grateful to the noble Lord for his support for our moves post-2014. We are fully aware of the issue of enabling support to the ANSF. Last year, this priority switched from growing the forces to professionalising and developing their ability to support themselves post-2014 as ISAF draws down. In addition to taking the coalition lead in supporting the officer academy, the UK will maintain its current development assistance of £178 million a year until 2017, and we will also contribute £70 million a year until at least 2017 towards sustaining the ANSF.

Territorial Army

Lord Clark of Windermere Excerpts

Wednesday 17th July 2013 Lords Chamber

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, there are seven sites in Scotland where there is no longer a requirement for Army Reserve basing as a result of structural change. These are Wick, Bothwell House in Dunfermline, Sandbank, Keith, Kirkcaldy, Carmunnock Road in Glasgow and McDonald Road in Edinburgh. One site, Redford cavalry barracks in Edinburgh, will be reopened.

[Lord Clark of Windermere]

My Lords, how are the Government to expand the provision of officer training courses in groups of universities?

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, I am not briefed on officers at universities but I think that the answer is yes; we want to continue that and grow it because it is an important source of officers for the reserves.

Reserve Forces

Lord Clark of Windermere Excerpts

Wednesday 3rd July 2013 Lords Chamber

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, I can confirm that to the noble Lord. That point came up in the Statement in the other place and it is absolutely true.

[Lord Clark of Windermere]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for his Statement and wish him and his colleagues every success in achieving this plan for the Reserve Forces. As the Minister knows, in the past I have asked him a number of questions about the Defence Medical Services and I see from the White Paper that 38% of the DMS is currently reservists. What percentage of the DMS does he envisage will be reservists in the future and will there be some medical competences within the DMS which will be entirely dependent on reservists?

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for his support. He is absolutely right that the figure is 38%. I have seen the hugely valuable work that they do in Camp Bastion. Both the Armed Forces and the National Health Service benefit from the work that is going on and we will need these medical people in the future. I cannot give a specific percentage figure but I can assure the noble Lord how vital these people will be to us.

Armed Forces: Reserve Forces

Lord Clark of Windermere Excerpts

Wednesday 19th June 2013 Lords Chamber

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, yes, I can. This is central to achieving a fully integrated force. Reserves will train and develop a competence on the weapon and vehicle platforms common to their roles. Some of the most modern equipment currently in use—for example, the amphibious bridging—will only be used by the reserves.

[Lord Clark of Windermere]

My Lords, can the Minister advise the House what percentage of our doctors serving with our forces in Afghanistan are reservists? Is it envisaged that certain specific roles within the medical services will be designated entirely for reservists?

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, this is one of the areas that we are looking at very carefully at the moment. Meetings take place frequently in the Ministry of Defence and I hope to come back with an announcement on this important issue before the Summer Recess.