Railways: Theft

Debate between Lord Chartres and Lord Henley

Monday 3rd October 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Henley]

My noble friend is quite right to draw attention to the problems, but it is not just the police who have a role in this; I am thinking of the previous department which I had the honour to serve in. The Environment Agency also has a role, although, admittedly, that role is reserved purely for environmental matters. There is no reason why that role should not be extended to deal with those who are trading in an irresponsible or criminal manner. Having said that, one should always be aware of the danger that one just shifts the problems on to illegal sites and it is therefore very important that we look very carefully at anything we do and what the consequences of any action are likely to be.

[The Lord Bishop of London]

My Lords, in comparison with the very large figure quoted, £26 million, which is the bill for the lead theft from church roofs, might strike noble Lords as rather small, but it is a very great pressure on local communities. Is the Minister aware that one step that we believe would have an impact on the problem and to which he has already referred—making cashless transactions the rule for scrap metal merchants—is, in fact, the rule in almost every other European country, including Bulgaria?

[Lord Henley]

My Lords, I am very grateful to the right reverend Prelate for drawing that to our attention and for emphasising the problems that we and the church are facing. I know that he has been in touch with the Home Office and that Ministers have responded to the church’s concerns about these matters. He is quite right to draw attention to the advantage of the cashless model, but there are other matters that we could look at, such as design, material and even, I understand, reviewing the properties of the copper and lead themselves to see whether they can be made more traceable in due course.