LGBTI Citizens Worldwide

Lord Cashman Excerpts

Thursday 17th September 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Cashman (Lab)]

My Lords, it is a privilege for me to stand here for the very first time—I hope not the last—in this extremely important debate. I thank my noble friend Lord Scriven—if I may call him that—for securing this important debate and ensuring that the debate will go on. I am humbled and inspired by the debate this afternoon, but equally I am depressed that in 2015 we have to have such a debate about individual human rights across the world. That is the depressing element. I welcome all the powerful contributions. In particular, I associate myself with the eloquent, powerful and personal contribution of the noble Lord, Lord Paddick, for which I thank him deeply.

The evidence we have heard today should make us all feel not only uncomfortable but ashamed. The statistics on human rights abuses pile high. There are thousands of examples of disregard for someone’s humanity and of the denial of rights. Even the most fundamental basic right of the protection of the law is denied.

Behind all these examples and statistics are ordinary men and women, the sons and daughters of ordinary men and women, who are made extraordinary by society and religion’s obsession with their sexual orientation and gender identity. This persecution and victimisation blights us all. It is carried out in the names of those who look on, do nothing and say nothing. A man who did much and spoke out was the Ugandan activist David Kato, and he paid for that courage with his life. The noble Lord, Lord Fowler, and my noble friend Lord Collins paid tribute to the work done by activists in Uganda. Like them, this morning I was horrified to hear a religious man on the “Today” programme refusing to condemn the criminalisation of LGBTI people.

The discrimination that we see is often done with the excuse of religion, religious belief or culture—or, as the noble Lord, Lord Black, said, toxic culture—as if that is acceptable. As the noble and right reverend Lord, Lord Harries, eloquently pointed out, it is not. The protection and defence of religious belief is equally a fundamental human right, but not the right to impose that belief on another and, by so doing, diminish and remove another’s human rights.

The challenge of the worldwide Anglican communion has been referred to by the most reverend Primate the Archbishop of Canterbury as an impossible task but, if we are to progress the rights of individuals who often remain voiceless and invisible, impossible tasks must be undertaken and achieved. Have we learnt nothing from the cold, humiliating history of slavery and those who used culture, religion and market forces to defend it?

I believe that our ability to imagine separates us from other species. As a gay man, I must imagine, “What if that were me?”. What if I were born in one of those 78 countries that criminalise people because of who they choose to love consensually? What if I were born in any of the eight countries that have the death penalty for homosexuality or being transgender, or where I could simply be stoned to death or thrown from the roof of a building because of who I choose to love? What if that were me? What if it were any one of us? If it is not right for us, how dare we imagine that it should be right for another?

I believe that we are all connected by a sea of humanity, and we disregard that at our peril. The rights of one another are inextricably linked. We should remember that, too, when we look at men, women and children trudging across the world to achieve sanctuary, safety and human rights. Within those, I include LGBTI people. The treatment of LGBTI people at our borders must be humane, respectful and non-intrusive. I am deeply concerned, as has already been said in the debate, that the recommendations of the Vine report on this subject are yet to be in place. I share concerns, too, that there has been a perceived downgrading of the importance of human rights and LGBTI rights at the FCO. As the noble Lord, Lord Smith, said, these should be at the heart of the work of the Foreign and Commonwealth Office.

The decision taken by the Foreign Secretary that our embassies shall not fly the LGBT rainbow flag during Pride days or marches is wrong. That simple act of solidarity is of huge significance to LGBT people, local NGOs and activists. It is a reminder to them they are not alone, and a reminder to their Governments and politicians, who often follow public opinion rather than lead it, that we are watching and we are with them. I do not say that from an academic point of view. I have been on those marches in places such as Poland, Bulgaria, Romania and Lithuania, where there was violence and where there were more people protecting us than were on the march. In those places and elsewhere, the role of our embassies and their visible support were instrumental in the marches being allowed to go ahead and the progress that steadily followed.

At times like that when you are on a march, taking for granted every single right that you have in your own country, you realise that our rights are not universal and that, contrary to the UN declaration and the European civil and political conventions, our rights do not travel with us. Diminished human rights and criminalisation overseas directly affect British citizens too. As other noble Lords have said, it is not just happening in far-flung places such as Singapore, India and Pakistan; it is happening here, in the European Union and on the streets of London. To give a simple example, when a same-sex married couple and their children merely go on holiday—when they are not even working—to certain EU countries, such as Italy, Poland, Romania or Lithuania, their marital rights and their legal rights over their children disappear immediately, the moment they set foot on the territory. If an employer wants to transfer you to, say, Russia, where Section 28 was evilly replicated, or Saudi Arabia, China, Bangladesh, Uganda or many other countries, your rights disappear and you are instantly criminalised.

Here, too, in the United Kingdom, homophobia and transphobia still exist on our streets and in our schools, where children should be informed and, most of all, protected, not bullied and humiliated. That is why we need to do much more at home. On homelessness, the Albert Kennedy Trust revealed that 24% of homeless youth in the UK are LGBT. LGBT sex education is deeply lacking, as revealed in the NAT study. Homophobia is rife. Trans children are in our midst, and they are diminished by the attacks on their human rights. The noble Lord, Lord Black, referred to conversion therapies, which we must outlaw, and at the earliest opportunity. Northern Ireland is a blight in its attitude to deny the right of same-sex couples the right to marriage.

However, we need to go forward. How do we turn real and deep concern into action that produces tangible benefits? First, as has been said by other noble Lords, DfID must indicate which Minister is now responsible for this particular portfolio. It must restate, along with the Foreign and Commonwealth Office, its public commitment to continue to work on these issues and to raise concerns and take action at the highest level, and should do so in concert with other countries, particularly the USA, whose threatened travel ban was extremely useful in curtailing some heavy anti-LGBT political activity in sub-Saharan Africa. I urge the Government to reconsider appointing a global LGBTI envoy. I will explain why—and it is not because I want the job.

In the course of discussions with the USA’s State Department special envoy, Randy Berry, it became clear to me that there would be added value in having such an envoy, not only as the Government’s highest representative when travelling overseas, but also in the co-ordination of domestic policy and policy coherence when acting externally. A global envoy would send a powerful signal and publicly reconnect the United Kingdom Government to these issues we have discussed, working across government departments such as the Home Office, Communities and Local Government, the Department for Education and the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills, as well as raising the issue overseas. It would ensure that policy coherence and human rights were at the heart of everything we do.

Finally, we know that Governments cannot do it alone. We need to co-ordinate and work with progressives in religious organisations, local as well as international NGOs, and with a new dimension: global and multinational businesses. Businesses promoting their diversity principles in countries that are problematic for LGBTI people is extremely effective. In this respect, I urge the Government to work with Open for Business, a coalition of global companies—IBM, Google, American Express, MasterCard, Standard Chartered—which are making the case that inclusive, diverse societies are better for business and economic growth. Its excellent publication, The Economic and Business Case for Global LGBT Inclusion, is published today. These actions by business can be subtly placed diplomatically within the Treasury, and with Business Ministers in all their discussions.

We therefore have an opportunity to bring about a progressive global consensus that can harness the power of business to work with Governments, NGOs and other progressives to deliver real social progress and to help end the culture of persecution and discrimination faced by LGBTI people every single minute of every single day. I thank your Lordships.

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Anelay of St Johns) (Con)]

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Scriven, for tabling this important debate on upholding the rights of LGBTI people worldwide, and for the valuable and moving contributions, as the noble Baroness, Lady Northover, said, from around the House. I again welcome the noble Lord, Lord Cashman, to the Front Bench. He is used to the limelight—this is a little harsher sometimes, but he still glows in it. I also welcome the establishment of the All-Party Parliamentary Group on Global LGBT Rights. I am looking forward to working with it.

A lot of questions asked: what is the role of the FCO, at home and overseas? I shall try to explain it. There was a feeling from the noble Lord, Lord Cashman, that somehow we have resiled on our commitment to supporting LGBTI rights. That is absolutely not the case; it is core to what we do.

When I looked again at our work after the general election, I started with our manifesto, which makes it clear that we have a commitment to uphold and develop the strength of international human rights. That is what I sought to do. I looked at the way in which we framed our words about human rights, and I was concerned that they provided what looked like a priority list—and when one has a priority list, one can leave people out and have an order that offends. We have done both, quite unintentionally. In having priorities, it was not intended to say that someone at the top was better than someone at the bottom. It was intended to show our focus and how we feel passionate. If I were someone from the LGBTI community and looked at that list of priorities, I would struggle to see my place. I therefore asked our officials if they would reframe the way in which we presented our passion about human rights in a way that ensured everyone was reflected within it. We made sure that we included three things—democratic values, a rules-based international system and human rights for a stable world—so that everyone has a place.

The United Kingdom has been a leader in the United Nations for saying loudly that no goal can be considered met unless and until it is met for all groups in society. That underpins everything that we do. The death penalty, which has been mentioned, is wrong anyway. It is certainly wrong to criminalise interpersonal relationships, but the death penalty is wrong in principle and practice and we campaign worldwide against it.

I was asked about business and human rights, and was very interested in what the noble Lord, Lord Cashman, has just said. My noble friend Lord Black of Brentwood also raised the issue, as did the noble Lord, Lord Scriven. Certainly, that remains core to what the FCO does. Of course, Francis Maude—the noble Lord, Lord Maude—is half a Foreign Office Minister and half a BIS Minister in carrying forward the practical work on that issue. However, I drive it forward at the level of ensuring that it is built into the way in which we approach our work overall. The Government Equalities Office naturally holds the overall lead in government, but all departments have a duty to ensure that all groups in society are part of the consideration of how we should be fair to all. Therefore, the Foreign Office, far from resiling on our support for promoting the fair treatment of all, is trying to press it even further.

We wholeheartedly agree that human rights are universal and have to apply to all people. The noble Baroness, Lady Barker, raised the issue of the Bill of Rights. She asked whether our policy was going to undermine it. The answer is no. I can say to her that my noble friend Lord Faulks is engaged with his other colleagues in preparing a paper, which will go out to the country for consultation at some time this autumn—I know that definitions of autumn can vary, but I think I know what it means. When I have gone to United Nations meetings, and others around the world, I have always given an undertaking that this country is a compassionate country that believes in human rights. A Bill of Rights will not undermine that. It should reinforce and strengthen, not weaken, human rights.

It is clearly unacceptable that, around the world, people continue to be discriminated against and face violence simply because of who they love. As we have heard today, this happens too often and in too many places. We know that at least 175 million LGBTI people live in countries where they are persecuted and, indeed, prosecuted. The real global scale of the problem is probably much higher than that.

In this regard, I remain deeply concerned that 41 of the 53 members of the Commonwealth still criminalise homosexuality, and I am glad that this matter was raised by so many noble Lords today. We should recall that the Commonwealth charter states:

“We are implacably opposed to all forms of discrimination, whether rooted in gender, race, colour, creed, political belief or other grounds”.

So there is no excuse for members of the Commonwealth to persecute or prosecute those who are LGBTI. The Prime Minister has spoken out on LGBTI rights in the Commonwealth, and I can update the House further on that. Earlier this year, the Foreign Secretary wrote to the Commonwealth Secretary-General and raised the importance of implementing the aims and aspirations of the charter. My noble friend Hugo Swire—I beg your pardon; my right honourable friend, as he is still in the other place—the Minister of State with responsibility for the Commonwealth, has resolutely raised the issue in the past. I suspect that he shall do so again. The UK thinks that the Commonwealth should do more to promote the rights of its lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender citizens, who deserve the same rights as all other citizens.

The noble Baroness, Lady Northover, raised the interesting question about whether things will change and perhaps improve with the election of a new Secretary-General. I hope so. We argue that that process should be more transparent and should bring forward, shall we say, more openness than it has in the past. We will look to see how candidates emerge. It has to be the best person for the job, and I think the best person is somebody who will take forward a commitment to human rights in the Commonwealth and not let it stay stagnant, as it appears to be in some countries at the moment.

Our high commissions around the world continue to lobby at the highest level on LGBTI rights where same-sex relations are criminalised. They also fund projects and support local LGBTI civil society groups. The work and the commitment are there.

Furthermore, the abuses of human rights of those in other areas should be recorded. Some have referred to the horrors committed in ISIL-controlled territory, and the UK plays a leading role in a global coalition dedicated to dealing with that. That is why protecting the human rights of LGBTI people is a vital part of the British Government’s work at home and overseas.

Government co-ordination was called into question by the noble Lord, Lord Scriven, and one or two other noble Lords. I fully agree that co-ordination across FCO, DfID, the Home Office and, as others have rightly mentioned, DCLG is important, and the Government Equalities Office takes the lead on so many matters. We do work in co-ordination. That is why officials are in regular discussion, most recently on how the whole of Government could follow up on the recent visit of the United States LGBT special envoy. I shall refer to that in a moment, because I had the honour of meeting him. I also assure noble Lords that FCO officials are discussing with DfID officials how we can best support DfID’s refreshed approach to LGBTI matters and development overall.

This applies to LGB as well as T. I know that there are differences in the way that some Governments overseas refer to different groups. The noble Lord, Lord Scriven, was absolutely right to refer to LGBTI, and I intend to continue to refer to that overall. I know that it offends some members of the LGB community and some transgender, but I think that he is right in his terminology for this debate today—it helps us.

I was asked also by the noble Lord, Lord Scriven, and there were comments elsewhere, about asylum. It is important to recognise that our policy on asylum is to look at the individual, not at a category. Our policy and guidance are very clear: we do not remove from this country individuals who have demonstrated a real risk of persecution on grounds of sexual orientation. It is clear that, in so many countries now, the activity of their Governments has made it even more obvious that somebody is at real risk of persecution. Other countries should bear in mind when they are passing legislation or encouraging anti-LGBTI activity that that is taken as prima facie evidence by us as to what a person would face if they were removed.

I was also asked more generally what we are doing around the world. Our embassies and high commissions work hard to tackle prejudice against LGBTI people. I can say to the noble Lord, Lord Scriven, that they do so by challenging discriminatory laws through direct lobbying of Governments and by supporting civil society organisations on the ground. For example, we regularly raise our concerns about any legislation which would lead to persecution of, and discrimination against, LGBTI people. Belize was mentioned, but that has certainly happened not only in Belize but in Belarus, Kazakhstan, Nigeria and Uganda—to name just five instances where we press home our argument against such persecution. With regard to Uganda, we are supporting the police and Uganda Human Rights Commission to improve their response to cases involving vulnerable and marginalised persons, including members of the LGBTI community.

We believe that supporting local actors is the best way for us to achieve a sustained improvement overall. We support, therefore, Ugandan civil society in its work to protect the human rights of LGBTI persons. We continue to support in practical terms training, advocacy and legal cases related to the protection of LGBTI rights, and will continue to raise our concerns about any legislation which could lead to further persecution of, and discrimination against, LGBTI people. In Montenegro, the UK supported a project to improve prosecution of homophobic hate crimes—it is important, on the other side of the coin, not just to prevent persecution but to make sure that measures are in place to tackle those who carry out activities which are homophobic. In Russia, we are supporting LGBTI campaigners, and in the Caribbean we are funding a number of projects, including one that focuses on developing a digital database and online platform where members of the community can then get access to various services throughout the region. We have also funded a human rights workshop for the St Lucia police force.

I can assure the noble Lord, Lord Collins of Highbury, that our public diplomacy forms an integral part of our approach to changing perceptions, securing equal rights for LGBTI persons and demonstrating solidarity with civil society activists. That includes Stonewall, the Kaleidoscope Trust and the Human Dignity Trust.

Staff from our embassies and high commissions regularly attend pride marches. My disappointment when I went to New York for the United Nations back in June was that, when I arrived, I was just too late to join our British ambassador to the UN on his march. I insisted that he then tweeted the photograph of him in a really good, strong T-shirt. It certainly played havoc with the road systems, too, but we got there in the end. We also stage events during Pride Week as well as on the International Day Against Homophobia and Transphobia. This year alone, our diplomats have hosted events in Skopje, Riga, Budapest, Zagreb, Kingston, Minsk, Singapore and Brasilia, to name but a few. This week, the British embassy in Belgrade is again supporting the pride parade on 20 September, in which FCO officials will take part. Many of our posts have conducted social media campaigns in a host of other countries, including Turkey, China and Vietnam.

I note what was said about Turkey. That was particularly used to draw attention to the issue of flying the rainbow flag. Perhaps it is appropriate at this moment if I interrupt that narrative to explain that the issue is not that we have anything against the rainbow flag; it is simply a matter that UK diplomatic missions around the world fly the union flag, national flag and the flags of the British Overseas Territories. We do not fly the Commonwealth flag either. We are a member of many organisations and associations such as NATO and we do not fly their flags. We do not fly other organisations’ flags. What we do is to reflect the whole nation.

Having reflected on the way that we represent human rights, let me say that the union flag represents the human rights of all. I recognise that when our ambassadors and high commissioners join in the pride marches, what they do—and I have seen what they do—is to drape the rainbow flag over the floats, including over the UK float. But flying the flag is a national matter for a state, and I am afraid that that is where we are. I do not want to dilute our commitment. That is the fact: quite a simple fact.

[Lord Cashman]

If that is the fact and the reason why the flag is no longer flown, why has it been flown for the past 12 years?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, it is one of those things where someone thought it was an excellent idea at the time without thinking through the consequences of what it does to the other flag being flown. When we fly the flag we look at the country and think, “What is that country doing?”. I am proud of what we are doing. If I want to wear a rainbow outfit on the right day, nothing will stop me doing that either, I can assure the noble Lord.

I shall return to the narrative. Our embassy in Hanoi in 2013 was the first local mission to use its website as a platform for an LGB&T—as it was then—activist blogger. I would also like to draw attention to our consular work, highlighting that some of our posts now offer same-sex marriages, with one such union prompting the Seychelles to reassert its commitment to decriminalise sex between same-sex couples, so things can change. Our embassy in Santo Domingo hosted the first same-sex marriage in the Caribbean on 30 December 2014.

I was asked about the special envoy and I was delighted to meet with Mr Berry last week. We agreed that there is already excellent co-ordination between the UK and the US and discussed what more we could do together. That will be a continuing discussion. I will be listening and learning. He has only just been appointed and we need to see how that develops. We agreed on the need to empower ambassadors to show leadership on LGBTI issues where and when they believe it to be most appropriate.

In the light of this, I have every confidence that we will continue our work overseas and show our strong commitment and vigour in protecting LGBTI rights around the world. That includes the United Nations in New York and the Human Rights Council, where in September last year we saw the passing of a second resolution on sexual orientation, supported this time by more states than ever before. This resolution, tabled by Brazil, Chile, Colombia and Uruguay provides the international legal framework needed by LGBT activists to help challenge the views of states that undermine their legitimacy.

I assure noble Lords that we will continue to prevent silence on sexual orientation at the UN and elsewhere, not least because silence is an affront to those people who suffer discrimination and violence. It would weaken the UN’s credibility and ability to address a range of other contentious issues. As such I was delighted to see that, for the first time, the UN Security Council last month held an informal meeting on LGBTI rights in the context of ISIL. Again, this shows the UK at the forefront in strongly condemning the atrocities committed by ISIL.