The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Anelay of St Johns) (Con)
My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Scriven, for tabling this important debate on upholding the rights of LGBTI people worldwide, and for the valuable and moving contributions, as the noble Baroness, Lady Northover, said, from around the House. I again welcome the noble Lord, Lord Cashman, to the Front Bench. He is used to the limelight—this is a little harsher sometimes, but he still glows in it. I also welcome the establishment of the All-Party Parliamentary Group on Global LGBT Rights. I am looking forward to working with it.
A lot of questions asked: what is the role of the FCO, at home and overseas? I shall try to explain it. There was a feeling from the noble Lord, Lord Cashman, that somehow we have resiled on our commitment to supporting LGBTI rights. That is absolutely not the case; it is core to what we do.
When I looked again at our work after the general election, I started with our manifesto, which makes it clear that we have a commitment to uphold and develop the strength of international human rights. That is what I sought to do. I looked at the way in which we framed our words about human rights, and I was concerned that they provided what looked like a priority list—and when one has a priority list, one can leave people out and have an order that offends. We have done both, quite unintentionally. In having priorities, it was not intended to say that someone at the top was better than someone at the bottom. It was intended to show our focus and how we feel passionate. If I were someone from the LGBTI community and looked at that list of priorities, I would struggle to see my place. I therefore asked our officials if they would reframe the way in which we presented our passion about human rights in a way that ensured everyone was reflected within it. We made sure that we included three things—democratic values, a rules-based international system and human rights for a stable world—so that everyone has a place.
The United Kingdom has been a leader in the United Nations for saying loudly that no goal can be considered met unless and until it is met for all groups in society. That underpins everything that we do. The death penalty, which has been mentioned, is wrong anyway. It is certainly wrong to criminalise interpersonal relationships, but the death penalty is wrong in principle and practice and we campaign worldwide against it.
I was asked about business and human rights, and was very interested in what the noble Lord, Lord Cashman, has just said. My noble friend Lord Black of Brentwood also raised the issue, as did the noble Lord, Lord Scriven. Certainly, that remains core to what the FCO does. Of course, Francis Maude—the noble Lord, Lord Maude—is half a Foreign Office Minister and half a BIS Minister in carrying forward the practical work on that issue. However, I drive it forward at the level of ensuring that it is built into the way in which we approach our work overall. The Government Equalities Office naturally holds the overall lead in government, but all departments have a duty to ensure that all groups in society are part of the consideration of how we should be fair to all. Therefore, the Foreign Office, far from resiling on our support for promoting the fair treatment of all, is trying to press it even further.
We wholeheartedly agree that human rights are universal and have to apply to all people. The noble Baroness, Lady Barker, raised the issue of the Bill of Rights. She asked whether our policy was going to undermine it. The answer is no. I can say to her that my noble friend Lord Faulks is engaged with his other colleagues in preparing a paper, which will go out to the country for consultation at some time this autumn—I know that definitions of autumn can vary, but I think I know what it means. When I have gone to United Nations meetings, and others around the world, I have always given an undertaking that this country is a compassionate country that believes in human rights. A Bill of Rights will not undermine that. It should reinforce and strengthen, not weaken, human rights.
It is clearly unacceptable that, around the world, people continue to be discriminated against and face violence simply because of who they love. As we have heard today, this happens too often and in too many places. We know that at least 175 million LGBTI people live in countries where they are persecuted and, indeed, prosecuted. The real global scale of the problem is probably much higher than that.
In this regard, I remain deeply concerned that 41 of the 53 members of the Commonwealth still criminalise homosexuality, and I am glad that this matter was raised by so many noble Lords today. We should recall that the Commonwealth charter states:
“We are implacably opposed to all forms of discrimination, whether rooted in gender, race, colour, creed, political belief or other grounds”.
So there is no excuse for members of the Commonwealth to persecute or prosecute those who are LGBTI. The Prime Minister has spoken out on LGBTI rights in the Commonwealth, and I can update the House further on that. Earlier this year, the Foreign Secretary wrote to the Commonwealth Secretary-General and raised the importance of implementing the aims and aspirations of the charter. My noble friend Hugo Swire—I beg your pardon; my right honourable friend, as he is still in the other place—the Minister of State with responsibility for the Commonwealth, has resolutely raised the issue in the past. I suspect that he shall do so again. The UK thinks that the Commonwealth should do more to promote the rights of its lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender citizens, who deserve the same rights as all other citizens.
The noble Baroness, Lady Northover, raised the interesting question about whether things will change and perhaps improve with the election of a new Secretary-General. I hope so. We argue that that process should be more transparent and should bring forward, shall we say, more openness than it has in the past. We will look to see how candidates emerge. It has to be the best person for the job, and I think the best person is somebody who will take forward a commitment to human rights in the Commonwealth and not let it stay stagnant, as it appears to be in some countries at the moment.
Our high commissions around the world continue to lobby at the highest level on LGBTI rights where same-sex relations are criminalised. They also fund projects and support local LGBTI civil society groups. The work and the commitment are there.
Furthermore, the abuses of human rights of those in other areas should be recorded. Some have referred to the horrors committed in ISIL-controlled territory, and the UK plays a leading role in a global coalition dedicated to dealing with that. That is why protecting the human rights of LGBTI people is a vital part of the British Government’s work at home and overseas.
Government co-ordination was called into question by the noble Lord, Lord Scriven, and one or two other noble Lords. I fully agree that co-ordination across FCO, DfID, the Home Office and, as others have rightly mentioned, DCLG is important, and the Government Equalities Office takes the lead on so many matters. We do work in co-ordination. That is why officials are in regular discussion, most recently on how the whole of Government could follow up on the recent visit of the United States LGBT special envoy. I shall refer to that in a moment, because I had the honour of meeting him. I also assure noble Lords that FCO officials are discussing with DfID officials how we can best support DfID’s refreshed approach to LGBTI matters and development overall.
This applies to LGB as well as T. I know that there are differences in the way that some Governments overseas refer to different groups. The noble Lord, Lord Scriven, was absolutely right to refer to LGBTI, and I intend to continue to refer to that overall. I know that it offends some members of the LGB community and some transgender, but I think that he is right in his terminology for this debate today—it helps us.
I was asked also by the noble Lord, Lord Scriven, and there were comments elsewhere, about asylum. It is important to recognise that our policy on asylum is to look at the individual, not at a category. Our policy and guidance are very clear: we do not remove from this country individuals who have demonstrated a real risk of persecution on grounds of sexual orientation. It is clear that, in so many countries now, the activity of their Governments has made it even more obvious that somebody is at real risk of persecution. Other countries should bear in mind when they are passing legislation or encouraging anti-LGBTI activity that that is taken as prima facie evidence by us as to what a person would face if they were removed.
I was also asked more generally what we are doing around the world. Our embassies and high commissions work hard to tackle prejudice against LGBTI people. I can say to the noble Lord, Lord Scriven, that they do so by challenging discriminatory laws through direct lobbying of Governments and by supporting civil society organisations on the ground. For example, we regularly raise our concerns about any legislation which would lead to persecution of, and discrimination against, LGBTI people. Belize was mentioned, but that has certainly happened not only in Belize but in Belarus, Kazakhstan, Nigeria and Uganda—to name just five instances where we press home our argument against such persecution. With regard to Uganda, we are supporting the police and Uganda Human Rights Commission to improve their response to cases involving vulnerable and marginalised persons, including members of the LGBTI community.
We believe that supporting local actors is the best way for us to achieve a sustained improvement overall. We support, therefore, Ugandan civil society in its work to protect the human rights of LGBTI persons. We continue to support in practical terms training, advocacy and legal cases related to the protection of LGBTI rights, and will continue to raise our concerns about any legislation which could lead to further persecution of, and discrimination against, LGBTI people. In Montenegro, the UK supported a project to improve prosecution of homophobic hate crimes—it is important, on the other side of the coin, not just to prevent persecution but to make sure that measures are in place to tackle those who carry out activities which are homophobic. In Russia, we are supporting LGBTI campaigners, and in the Caribbean we are funding a number of projects, including one that focuses on developing a digital database and online platform where members of the community can then get access to various services throughout the region. We have also funded a human rights workshop for the St Lucia police force.
I can assure the noble Lord, Lord Collins of Highbury, that our public diplomacy forms an integral part of our approach to changing perceptions, securing equal rights for LGBTI persons and demonstrating solidarity with civil society activists. That includes Stonewall, the Kaleidoscope Trust and the Human Dignity Trust.
Staff from our embassies and high commissions regularly attend pride marches. My disappointment when I went to New York for the United Nations back in June was that, when I arrived, I was just too late to join our British ambassador to the UN on his march. I insisted that he then tweeted the photograph of him in a really good, strong T-shirt. It certainly played havoc with the road systems, too, but we got there in the end. We also stage events during Pride Week as well as on the International Day Against Homophobia and Transphobia. This year alone, our diplomats have hosted events in Skopje, Riga, Budapest, Zagreb, Kingston, Minsk, Singapore and Brasilia, to name but a few. This week, the British embassy in Belgrade is again supporting the pride parade on 20 September, in which FCO officials will take part. Many of our posts have conducted social media campaigns in a host of other countries, including Turkey, China and Vietnam.
I note what was said about Turkey. That was particularly used to draw attention to the issue of flying the rainbow flag. Perhaps it is appropriate at this moment if I interrupt that narrative to explain that the issue is not that we have anything against the rainbow flag; it is simply a matter that UK diplomatic missions around the world fly the union flag, national flag and the flags of the British Overseas Territories. We do not fly the Commonwealth flag either. We are a member of many organisations and associations such as NATO and we do not fly their flags. We do not fly other organisations’ flags. What we do is to reflect the whole nation.
Having reflected on the way that we represent human rights, let me say that the union flag represents the human rights of all. I recognise that when our ambassadors and high commissioners join in the pride marches, what they do—and I have seen what they do—is to drape the rainbow flag over the floats, including over the UK float. But flying the flag is a national matter for a state, and I am afraid that that is where we are. I do not want to dilute our commitment. That is the fact: quite a simple fact.
Lord Cashman
If that is the fact and the reason why the flag is no longer flown, why has it been flown for the past 12 years?
Baroness Anelay of St Johns
My Lords, it is one of those things where someone thought it was an excellent idea at the time without thinking through the consequences of what it does to the other flag being flown. When we fly the flag we look at the country and think, “What is that country doing?”. I am proud of what we are doing. If I want to wear a rainbow outfit on the right day, nothing will stop me doing that either, I can assure the noble Lord.
I shall return to the narrative. Our embassy in Hanoi in 2013 was the first local mission to use its website as a platform for an LGB&T—as it was then—activist blogger. I would also like to draw attention to our consular work, highlighting that some of our posts now offer same-sex marriages, with one such union prompting the Seychelles to reassert its commitment to decriminalise sex between same-sex couples, so things can change. Our embassy in Santo Domingo hosted the first same-sex marriage in the Caribbean on 30 December 2014.
I was asked about the special envoy and I was delighted to meet with Mr Berry last week. We agreed that there is already excellent co-ordination between the UK and the US and discussed what more we could do together. That will be a continuing discussion. I will be listening and learning. He has only just been appointed and we need to see how that develops. We agreed on the need to empower ambassadors to show leadership on LGBTI issues where and when they believe it to be most appropriate.
In the light of this, I have every confidence that we will continue our work overseas and show our strong commitment and vigour in protecting LGBTI rights around the world. That includes the United Nations in New York and the Human Rights Council, where in September last year we saw the passing of a second resolution on sexual orientation, supported this time by more states than ever before. This resolution, tabled by Brazil, Chile, Colombia and Uruguay provides the international legal framework needed by LGBT activists to help challenge the views of states that undermine their legitimacy.
I assure noble Lords that we will continue to prevent silence on sexual orientation at the UN and elsewhere, not least because silence is an affront to those people who suffer discrimination and violence. It would weaken the UN’s credibility and ability to address a range of other contentious issues. As such I was delighted to see that, for the first time, the UN Security Council last month held an informal meeting on LGBTI rights in the context of ISIL. Again, this shows the UK at the forefront in strongly condemning the atrocities committed by ISIL.
Baroness Anelay of St Johns
My Lords, we have both been Whips. I have exceeded my time in a time-limited debate—
Baroness Anelay of St Johns
My Lords, I am not required to take any interventions when I have exceeded my time.