NHS Winter Crisis

Debate between Lord Campbell-Savours and Lord O'Shaughnessy

Monday 5th February 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord O’Shaughnessy]

This is a really important point about nursing numbers. I think the particular accusation was about the Francis report and the follow-up to it. Of course, a lot of that was about nurses in NHS hospitals and indeed on wards. The latest figures from October 2017 show that, when compared to May 2010, there has been an increase of more than 14,000 in acute, general and elderly. At the same time, that has meant that some other areas of nursing have been impacted; we have talked about mental health before as well as district nursing. I say to the noble Baroness that the big increases in nurse training places ought to mean that there are more nurses going through not just into acute, general and elderly but into mental health and community nursing as well.

[Lord Campbell-Savours (Lab)]

My Lords, despite the increase in population over the last 30 years, the number of beds in the National Health Service is half what it was 30 years ago. Germany has eight health service beds per 1,000 and in France the figure is six, but in the UK it is two and a half. Is it not about time that we revisited the whole question of the number of beds available in our National Health Service?

[Lord O’Shaughnessy]

The noble Lord raises a very interesting issue. As he rightly points out, that number has been dropping over a long time. It has plateaued in recent years, but it has been falling. This is a difficult situation. We all agree that more care should be delivered in the community, but we also understand that at certain times of year you do need beds in hospitals. I will point to two things: first, making sure that bed capacity is more efficient so that people can stay safely for less time and can spend more time being treated in their homes—which often is where they want to be, and that is why the extra funding for social care is important; and, secondly, the reconfiguration test that has been introduced by NHS England, which is about stopping reductions in bed numbers—which, as the noble Lord said, has happened under successive Governments—where it cannot be proven that any reduction is for the benefit of patients in terms of their overall care.

NHS Winter Crisis

Debate between Lord Campbell-Savours and Lord O'Shaughnessy

Monday 8th January 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Campbell-Savours (Lab)]

My Lords, I understand there is a new strain of flu in circulation this year, for which the flu jab was not designed. Does that mean that elderly people, who are particularly vulnerable to this new strain of flu, should have a second inoculation?

[Lord O’Shaughnessy]

There are of course at any one time a number of flu strains going around. There is particular concern about one of those strains affecting elderly people. Its circulation has come about quite late, as it were, and I would absolutely point out that the best way for elderly people and all at-risk groups to protect themselves is still to get that inoculation. For those who have not—

[Lord Campbell-Savours]

A second one?

[Lord O’Shaughnessy]

I am not in a position to say whether they should have a second inoculation, but there are still a number of people who have not had that inoculation. Those vaccines are available in GPs, surgeries, and we absolutely encourage all groups to have at least a first one.

Nursing and Midwifery: Student Applications

Debate between Lord Campbell-Savours and Lord O'Shaughnessy

Tuesday 7th February 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord O'Shaughnessy]

I thank my noble friend for that question. There are a couple of new opportunities: one is nursing associates and the other, in common with changes across the public sector, is that there are up to 1,000 new nursing degree apprenticeships providing alternative routes into nursing for those who do not want to go down the university route.

[Lord Campbell-Savours (Lab)]

My Lords, the Minister referred to clearing in his original reply. If, after clearing, there is still a substantial reduction in applications, will the Government then review the position?

[Lord O'Shaughnessy]

That is a hypothetical situation. Health Education England remains confident that we will fill the places. Critically, the universities—I mentioned the Council of Deans of Health—also think that we will still fill them.