Ukraine Conflict

Debate between Lord Campbell-Savours and Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon

Wednesday 7th February 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Campbell-Savours]

To ask His Majesty’s Government what steps they are taking to resolve the conflict in Ukraine.

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, we support a just and sustainable peace that restores Ukraine’s sovereignty and territorial integrity, underpinned by the UN charter. However, Russia’s actions on the battlefield demonstrate that President Putin has no interest in such an outcome. President Zelensky has clearly demonstrated Ukraine’s commitment to peace in his 10-point peace formula, and together with our partners the United Kingdom is providing Ukraine with the support it needs to both protect and defend its sovereignty.

[Lord Campbell-Savours (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, with some defence chiefs calling for national mobilisation, more equipment and intervention in Ukraine, and the Defence Committee arguing that we do not have the resources, despite the highest tax rates in recent history, and having in mind the sensitive national debate now under way in both Washington and Ukraine, where is the voice of reason that believes it is better for all to sit down and talk through resolution of this conflict? I profoundly disagree with those who say that it is not possible and the Russians will never talk. Is it not cheaper for all? It would save lives—300,000 have been lost to date—protect the international economy and preserve the peace that is now threatened worldwide.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, no one wants peace more than the Ukrainians. Anyone who has visited Ukraine can see that. President Zelensky wants peace; that is why he has put forward a 10-point programme. The noble Lord shakes his head, but perhaps at some point I will be able to convince him. As we mark this anniversary yet again, let us go back two years. Who invaded whom? Who is the aggressor and the responsible actor that created this war? Russia created the war; Mr Putin can stop it and he should do so now.

Ukraine: Reconstruction

Debate between Lord Campbell-Savours and Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon

Thursday 25th January 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Campbell-Savours (Lab) [V]]

Before we become overzealous over the seizure of assets, have we considered the prospect of reciprocal action by Russia against UK assets in Russia? How can we on the one hand confiscate assets held by Russia, which is a power normally exercised in wartime, while on the other hand insist that we are not at war with Russia? Is it not more realistic to claim on income streams from frozen assets, as has already been suggested, rather than on the principal capital involved?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I disagree on several points here. What is very clear, and I think the majority of your Lordships will agree with me, is that Russia is accountable. The freezing of these assets has had a net benefit. The majority of your Lordships and those in the other place fully support the Government in their position, which is to ensure that we immobilise Russia’s ability to finance its war effort. We have taken action to ensure that assets worth more than $400 billion cannot be mobilised. Not taking the steps we have taken would have allowed that $400 billion to be used differently. We need to ensure that we focus our actions. As I said before, everything we are doing, which is why we are being very careful in this, is in association with our G7 partners. We are working with other countries on the circumvention of the sanctions we have imposed and are ensuring that the actions we take are legally underpinned.

Ukraine

Debate between Lord Campbell-Savours and Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon

Thursday 20th July 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Campbell-Savours [V]]

To ask His Majesty’s Government what consideration they have given to a multilateral approach involving a coalition of both Eastern and Western powers in resolving the crisis in the Ukraine.

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, in February, at the UN General Assembly, 141 countries called on President Putin to withdraw Russian troops from Ukraine. This is the quickest way to end the war and deliver a just and lasting peace. The United Kingdom welcomes President Zelensky’s peace formula, which reflects principles of the UN charter. On Monday, my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary chaired a UN Security Council briefing on Ukraine, and we will work with the Ukrainian Government to follow up on June’s discussions in Copenhagen between the G7 and several G20 countries on the principles for sustainable peace in Ukraine.

[Lord Campbell-Savours (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, notwithstanding any difficulties we have with China, but recognising that China, like us, needs a peace process that stabilises its world markets while safeguarding as much as possible the sovereignty of Ukraine, could we not initiate a dialogue with China, drawing on its special relationship with Russia, that seeks an end to the conflict—a dialogue that promotes international protectorate status for Donetsk and Luhansk, and limited restoration of Russian oil supplies, substantially top-sliced to fund the cost of Ukraine’s reconstruction? Someone, somewhere, from a position of strength, must make the first move, as a policy of “last man standing” suits nobody. Can China open that door?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, the first thing I would say is that there is someone who can stop this war. That is Mr Putin, and he can stop it right now. We welcome the role China has played in engagement with President Zelensky, but these discussions about Ukraine must be led by Ukraine. As I said in my original Answer, we are working with key partners, including an extended engagement with the G20, including the likes of Turkey, Saudi Arabia and India. This war can stop today: if President Putin withdraws from the occupied territories then peace can prevail. Let us not forget what he did yesterday: he bombed the very grain depots where he stopped that grain from leaving Ukraine. This is not a sign of peace; it is a sign of furthering war.

Afghanistan: Women

Debate between Lord Campbell-Savours and Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon

Thursday 26th January 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Campbell-Savours (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, is not the lesson we learned from both America’s humiliating withdrawal from Vietnam and, more recently, ours from Afghanistan that foreign interventions which seek to impose our will on others of a different cultural heritage rarely work, and that the wise man seeks a more subtle approach to intervention? In the case of Afghanistan, subtlety demands the use of interlocutors who seek to help, advise, understand, engage and influence but not chastise. Those are very Christian principles. Condemnation and isolation simply will not work.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, first and foremost, I do not think the Taliban will understand the language of gentle persuasion. They are an abhorrent stain on the Islamic world; that is not my assessment but the assessment of many countries across that part of the world. Where I agree with the noble Lord is that we should explore all avenues to ensure that, whatever levers are at our disposal, and working with key partners who have the necessary influence, we change the trajectory that is currently faced across Afghanistan, particularly given the plight of women and girls.

Ukraine

Debate between Lord Campbell-Savours and Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon

Tuesday 1st November 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

I agree with the noble Lord’s points. I assure him that we are using all our engagements, both bilaterally and through multilateral fora. As I mentioned earlier, my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary will meet our G7 partners. Indeed, on a more medium to long-term basis, we will once again host the Ukrainian reconstruction conference here in London next year; again, that will be an opportunity to bring a lot of partners together to look at what economic support Ukraine needs. However, the noble Lord is right: we must stand in unity—and there is some unity. I remember that, when we achieved 140 and 141 votes at the UN, we were told that we had reached the pinnacle of international collaboration. Many thought that it could not be reached again, but we did; we reached 143. That shows the absolute abhorrence towards Russia’s action against Ukraine across the world.

[Lord Campbell-Savours (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, do Ministers—indeed, colleagues—genuinely believe that, with 200,000 troops in training and large swathes of Ukrainian territory under tyrannical occupation, the Russian leadership of a brutal Putin, who is systematically destroying infrastructure and murdering the innocent, is going to back off and withdraw? If, behind closed doors, they do not believe it, why do they not at least try to discreetly initiate talks to end the conflict? We need urgently to restore stability to the international economy and end the worldwide suffering in a war that seeks no end and could further escalate.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, Russia is not winning. The noble Lord talked about training conscripts. We have seen images: when Russia imposed this conscription on its citizens, they fled to the borders. We have seen reports in the media today of so-called trained people having been sent to the front line with equipment that is not just dated but pretty redundant in terms of its use. That is a sign of real desperation. Of course, Ukraine, with the unity of support, including military support, that we have seen from across the world, is making gains and getting back its territory. I put it to the noble Lord—we have had these exchanges before—that if someone occupies your back garden, then your conservatory and then your back room, are you going to say, “It’s okay, let’s negotiate”? I do not think so.

Ukraine

Debate between Lord Campbell-Savours and Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon

Wednesday 13th July 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Campbell-Savours]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what discussions they are having with NATO member states on developments in the conflict in Ukraine.

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, the United Kingdom continues to engage closely and regularly with our NATO allies as a key part of our response to Russia’s invasion of Ukraine. The Prime Minister and Foreign Secretary represented the UK at the recent NATO summit in Madrid at which NATO stated its unequivocal support for Ukraine’s sovereignty and territorial integrity. At the summit, the Prime Minister also encouraged fellow leaders to increase their economic, military and political support to Ukraine and announced a further £1 billion of UK military aid to Ukraine. We will continue to act alongside our NATO allies to counter Russian aggression.

[Lord Campbell-Savours (Lab) [V]]

We have on the one hand the brutal and unrelenting savagery of Putin’s army and, on the other, the inflexible commitment of Ukraine to a conflict which is already seven years old, where the only war aim is the total withdrawal of Russian forces. On what basis can the European powers justify indefinite spending on a war which is causing global inflation, insecurity across Europe and poverty at home, and which now threatens a winter with many people dying of the cold? When will wisdom and the need to negotiate trump wishful thinking?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, it is wisdom which ensures that we stand up united against anyone who aggresses in the way that Russia has. We are doing so with our European allies, the US and others. The noble Lord describes the conflict as one that is seven years old, but what is very true is that Crimea was annexed illegally; it is occupied illegally. We need to ensure that Russia stops this and the very issues the noble Lord alluded to, and it can do it now. Pull back and stop the war.

Russia and Ukraine: Settlement

Debate between Lord Campbell-Savours and Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon

Thursday 26th May 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Campbell-Savours]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the circumstances in which they would endorse the terms of a settlement between the government of Russia and the government of Ukraine regarding the current conflict.

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, we applaud Ukraine’s efforts to engage in dialogue in the face of continued Russian aggression. The United Kingdom and our allies support Ukraine’s efforts to secure a settlement that delivers a sustainable peace in line with established principles of European security. Any outcome needs to ensure Russian withdrawal and a ceasefire, and to strengthen Ukraine so it is able to deter future Russian aggression and, if necessary, defend itself.

[Lord Campbell-Savours (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, why, prior to a war now riddled with Russian atrocities, did we reject the December 2021 Russian-proposed talks on a draft treaty covering security guarantees, arms control, self-government within Ukraine for Donetsk and the maintenance of the existing corridor of non-nuclear barrier states from Finland to the Black Sea? Jens Stoltenberg agreed to the talks; why did we not? Russia’s proposed treaty was only in draft. Why did we not use it—indeed, why do we not use it—and build on it as the basis for negotiation and at least try to end this proxy war? There is a copy of the draft treaty in our Library.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, there is a simple answer to that. Any partner to a negotiation needs to uphold the rule of law. Russia has repeatedly failed, including in 2008 through its aggression in Georgia and in 2014 through its annexation of Crimea. Those were illegal acts of aggression, as is the current war in Ukraine.

Russia: Sanctions

Debate between Lord Campbell-Savours and Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon

Tuesday 1st February 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Campbell-Savours (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, during last Wednesday’s Statement to the House, I suggested that, prior to supporting a proxy war military intervention, and now sanctions, all concerned should read material from the National Security Archive at George Washington University, which reveals assurances given to the Soviets on NATO expansion—an issue at the heart of the Russian case. Was my suggestion followed up or ignored? Will not those undertakings given to the Russians not go away and, in the end, become central to this whole debate on both sanctions and the potential for conflict?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

The noble Lord is right on his specific suggestion but, on his broader point about the importance of diplomacy, that is exactly what Her Majesty’s Government are doing, along with our key partners. It is important, though, that Russia also recognises that it is about its actions. Let us not forget that Crimea was annexed—what, eight years ago?—and it has subsequently continued to take aggressive stances on the borders of Ukraine. I said earlier that we have now seen over 100,000 Russian troops amassing across three different fronts. These are not mere exercises; they are attempts to intimidate Ukraine. It is important that we stand with Ukraine and underline the support that we give to it, including what the sanction would be if there was a Russian incursion or invasion into any parts of Ukrainian territory. It is important that Russia understands that message, which is articulated not just by the United Kingdom but by us and our allies. I assure the noble Lord that the door of diplomacy, as I said in my previous answer, is very much open and the UK is at the forefront of that.

Kazakhstan

Debate between Lord Campbell-Savours and Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon

Tuesday 11th January 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Campbell-Savours (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, is not one of the drivers behind Kazakhstan’s unacceptable aggression America’s unrelenting desire to foment trouble in former Soviet satellite states? If our policy is to promote democratic values in Kazakhstan, would it not be more effective to foster a very different policy approach from that adopted by the Americans and challenge many of the decisions they are now taking in eastern Europe?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, my job is to speak not for the American Government but for Her Majesty’s Government. We are engaging constructively on the principles of democracy, and thriving democracy means that all human rights are respected—the rights to media freedom, to freedom of religion and to protest. We make those points consistently in international alliances and directly with countries, as we are doing today with Kazakhstan.

Vaccine Distribution

Debate between Lord Campbell-Savours and Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon

Thursday 6th January 2022 Lords Chamber

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, the Vaccine Taskforce is in constant communication with vaccine manufacturers to carefully manage UK vaccine supply. Due to commercial sensitivities, we are unable to comment on the details of these discussions. The UK manages our vaccine supply so that all procured doses are either used in the domestic programme or shared internationally. We continue to ensure that any vaccine that the UK does not need is, wherever possible, reallocated to other countries that require it.

[Lord Campbell-Savours (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, how do we justify a vaccination programme that leaves the third world innocently unable to stop disease spread to the unvaccinated in the developed world? If the answer is vaccine supply shortage on the one hand and refusenik human rights on the other, then why not respond by challenging patents, increasing vaccine manufacture and now, while resisting mandatory vaccination, selectively isolating refuseniks where they risk spreading the disease? Or is it that refusenik rights outweigh those of the vulnerable millions who are now forced to work from home, as I am having to do, as the disease spreads?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, it is important to recognise that, as has been said repeatedly, there is a global response to this; that is why the UK led on supporting the COVAX Facility. The noble Lord refers to the developing part of the world, and he will be aware, for example, of the additional donations promised by the Prime Minister. Some 20% are going bilaterally, and this includes countries such as Angola, Antigua and Barbuda, Jamaica and Mozambique. We are also working on technical support, which has ensured the manufacture of vaccines within, for example, South Africa.

Nepal: Covid-19 Vaccine Request

Debate between Lord Campbell-Savours and Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon

Thursday 20th May 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I return the compliment by paying tribute to my noble friend for his work and his advocacy for Nepal. I can also further assure him that this morning I met with the Minister for the Armed Forces, and the MoD is standing up a military, medical and advisory team on the ground to assess. They will be leaving early next week to assess the requirements on the ground. I am directly engaging with the Government of Nepal. Indeed, I had a very constructive meeting with the Foreign Minister yesterday, establishing exactly what the key requirements are, and later this afternoon I will be meeting the Nepalese ambassador to the Court of St James to further discuss issues of logistics. We have already extended support, including funding an oxygen generation plant at the Nepal Police Hospital, and we are working on the ground through our embassy, and with officials within the FCDO and the MoD, to see what further support can be extended at the earliest opportunity.

[Lord Campbell-Savours (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, despite the work of COVAX, is not the absence of an effective international vaccine manufacturing and distribution system that meets world demand perfectly illustrated by Nepal’s reported difficulties, particularly when the Serum Institute of India, the world’s largest manufacturer, is situated in Pune, in the state of Maharashtra in India, next door to Nepal? With an 8 billion world population at risk and potentially only a 4 billion worldwide double -dosage manufacturing capacity, as yet unrealised, how can world demand be met?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

The challenges—the noble Lord mentioned the Serum Institute of India, which I know well as the Minister for India, and the challenges in India in terms of the current wave sweeping across the country—are well known. We have seen a stepping up in terms of manufacturing and collaboration, and the United Kingdom’s structured approach to the COVAX facility demonstrates the importance, as the noble Lord himself acknowledges, of a global supply chain which guarantees the distribution of Covid-19 vaccines across the world.

China

Debate between Lord Campbell-Savours and Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon

Wednesday 22nd July 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, I would be pleased if my noble friend could write specifically on the concerns he has raised. Of course it is concerning that some do not recognise the situation that has prevailed in Hong Kong or the suffering of the Uighurs, as well as that of other minorities in Xinjiang. It is important that we continue to focus on those. Those who defend or deny those actions need to take a long, hard look at themselves.

[Lord Campbell-Savours (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, Dr Sarah Gilbert from the Oxford group dealing with coronavirus talks of collaboration worldwide on virus research, which we all welcome. To what extent are we collaborating with the Chinese, who are devoting huge resources to finding a vaccine? Can we be assured that if they or we get a breakthrough, we will not allow an hysterical Trump to issue trade threats to prevent us sharing in the benefits? A lot of lives are at stake.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

The noble Lord raises an important point about collaboration and working with China on the issues that matter. Clearly, China has a role to play on the pandemic, as it does on climate change. As my right honourable friend the Prime Minister has said, this is a global pandemic that needs us all to work together for the common good.