Northern Ireland (Executive Formation) Bill

Lord Campbell-Savours Excerpts

Committee: 1st sitting (Hansard): House of Lords
Monday 15th July 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Adonis]

That is a very silly debating point if I may say so. The key issue is that he said that he did not think Parliament meeting in September and October was a concern. In that case, what on earth are we arguing about anyway? The noble Lord, Lord Anderson, is seeking to establish in law that Parliament must meet in September and October. If the noble Lord agrees with that, why on earth are we having this argument in the first place?

The only other point that needs to be made—Boris Johnson is clearly considering this, otherwise these stories would not be running and we would not be in this situation—is that it would be a grave constitutional crisis if a Government were to ban Parliament from meeting for two months, for the whole of September and October. That is what would be involved. There is no modern precedent for that happening and no precedent in the past century for Parliament not meeting in October.

[Lord Campbell-Savours (Lab)]

Unless he calls a general election.

[Lord Adonis]

I think my noble friend is referring to 1974. I have looked that up. Parliament met at the end of October 1974, having had the election. There is no precedent for Parliament not meeting in October. There is no precedent in Britain for a controversial use—a use that would not be generally accepted by most parliamentarians—of the prerogative of Prorogation since 1831, when William IV prorogued Parliament at the request of Earl Grey to prevent the frustration of a Dissolution, which was so radically different a case from the one we have today that it is not comparable. The only case that I can see in any of the Dominions that corresponds to the situation we face now is from Canada in 2008. The then Canadian Prime Minister advised the Governor General to prorogue Parliament. All I can say, having looked at the circumstances of that case, is that it was bitterly controversial. The Governor General thought long and hard about whether to accede to the advice of the Prime Minister. It was immediately after a general election, when the circumstances were very different. If Boris Johnson is thinking of dragging Her Majesty into a controversy as deep as would be involved in banning Parliament from meeting in October, he will be doing a massive disservice not only to Parliament but to all our institutions of state. I hope he does not go there.

Northern Ireland Update

Lord Campbell-Savours Excerpts

Monday 29th April 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Duncan of Springbank]

My Lords, there is no question that the Belfast agreement remains the cornerstone of our approach. There is also no doubt that it has undergone evolution. In this process of talks, nothing can be taken off the table. All aspects must be available for consideration. Whether that ultimately results in a restoration of factory settings I suspect time will tell, but it will be important to ensure that we have the key aspect out of these talks: a sustainable Executive that can deliver and not be brought down by either noises off or any one political party.

I am also aware that the European elections, with which the noble Lord began his question and which we perhaps had not anticipated, are seemingly fast approaching. The landscape in Northern Ireland between now and the end of the year has a number of serious obstacles that we must navigate around. This is but one of them. I recognise that there will be challenges as the political parties seek to operate normal politics while involved in the extraordinary politics required to deliver an Executive.

[Lord Campbell-Savours (Lab)]

My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Cormack, made a specific recommendation with regard to the location of the talks and the conditions under which they would take place. Can the Minister take away his proposition and seriously consider it?

[Lord Duncan of Springbank]

Yes, I am very happy to do that.

Child Sexual Exploitation: Grooming Gangs

Lord Campbell-Savours Excerpts

Thursday 24th January 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Keen of Elie]

My Lords, I entirely accept the noble Lord’s observation. Clearly, there were failures in many areas that left those children exposed to these abhorrent crimes. That is one reason why Operation Stovewood, directed by the National Crime Agency, has taken over investigations in, for example, Rotherham, where it is looking at the exploitation of children for purposes of sexual abuse from 1997 to 2013. Other reports have been made but further work needs to be done.

[Lord Campbell-Savours (Lab)]

My Lords, in the case of claims arising from sexual offences, is it not worth transferring funds from the criminal injuries compensation scheme so that they can be spent on counselling victims? That happens in Germany, which has a far more substantial budget to spend in that regard.

[Lord Keen of Elie]

As the noble Lord may be aware, changes to the criminal injuries compensation scheme have been considered and addressed in the context of victims of child sexual abuse. So some changes have been made, but I cannot indicate that further material changes will be made to the scheme at this time.

Brexit: Attorney-General’s Advice

Lord Campbell-Savours Excerpts

Thursday 29th November 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Keen of Elie]

My Lords, again, the observations of the noble Lord merely underline the prematurity of the Question that is being posed. I think that noble Lords have to be realistic about this. No, we do not intend to repeat the mistakes of past Governments, nor will we. With regard to the advice over the Iraq War, I will not go into detail on that; it is a matter of history. The issue that was raised was whether the Cabinet had been shown the full legal advice or merely a summary, which, in the latter event, would have been contrary to the then Ministerial Code which indicated that when advice from the Law Officers was included in ministerial papers or in papers for the Cabinet, the full advice should be annexed to any summary. But that issue does not arise here at this time. Again, the whole Question that has been raised is one of prematurity. I am not going to comment on the issue of legal advice in a way that would intrude upon the Law Officer privilege.

[Lord Campbell-Savours (Lab)]

My Lords, does the Minister believe that there are circumstances in which the will of Parliament in a resolution should be ignored?

[Lord Keen of Elie]

I am not suggesting for a moment that the will of Parliament is going to be ignored.

Rape Trials

Lord Campbell-Savours Excerpts

Wednesday 6th June 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Keen of Elie]

In circumstances where it has been possible to download material that involves communications either between a complainer and the accused or between the complainer and third parties, that material will be analysed and all relevant material will be taken and disclosed to the defence. Of course, it is not always possible to access this material. We now live in an environment of encryption and of WhatsApp and Instagram, where sometimes this material is simply not accessible.

[Lord Campbell-Savours (Lab)]

What about those cases where men have been found guilty and are in prison, and there was inadequate disclosure during the course of their trial, whereas if there had been full disclosure they would have been found innocent? Are they simply to be left in prison and not have their cases reviewed?

[Lord Keen of Elie]

My Lords, I am not aware of any such cases. However, clearly, we have a series of filter mechanisms in our criminal justice system that includes the criminal cases review operation where there has already been a conviction and material comes to light.

Sexual Offences Legislation

Lord Campbell-Savours Excerpts

Tuesday 22nd May 2018 Lords Chamber

Asked by

[Lord Campbell-Savours]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what plans they have, if any, to reform sexual offences legislation.

[The Advocate-General for Scotland (Lord Keen of Elie) (Con)]

My Lords, the Government recognise the importance of keeping sexual offences legislation under review. The Sexual Offences Act 2003 was amended in 2015 and again in 2017. We are currently reviewing the law around upskirting and considering the wider law on non-consensual photography.

[Lord Campbell-Savours (Lab)]

My Lords, given that Mr Harvey Proctor has launched a civil action in the High Court, revealing in his particulars of claim the full name and identity of the man “Nick” who trashed the international reputation of Sir Edward Heath and others, and in so far as the public interest provisions under court procedure rules, which deny anonymity in the Proctor action, are in conflict with anonymity provisions in sexual offences legislation, surely the cloak of lifetime anonymity should not be extended to false accusers such as “Nick”, whose full name is now plastered across the internet worldwide. This was never, never, never the intention of Parliament. Is it not about time that we reviewed the law on anonymity?

[Lord Keen of Elie]

My Lords, lifetime anonymity that is extended to complainants may be removed. Indeed, those complainants who are found to have made false and misleading claims regarding sexual conduct may be subject to prosecution.

European Union (Withdrawal) Bill

Lord Campbell-Savours Excerpts

Committee: 8th sitting (Hansard - continued): House of Lords
Monday 19th March 2018 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Lord Campbell-Savours]

227BA: After Clause 9, insert the following new Clause—
“Failure to negotiate a withdrawal agreement by 29 January 2019
(1) In the event that no withdrawal agreement under Article 50(2) of the Treaty on the European Union acceptable to both Houses of Parliament has been reached between the United Kingdom and the EU by 29 January 2019, a Minister of the Crown may move a motion in each House of Parliament to provide for a referendum on whether the United Kingdom should seek to revoke notification of withdrawal under Article 50 and re-negotiate membership of the EU with—(a) restrictions on the arrangements for the free movement of persons between the United Kingdom and the EU;(b) a renegotiation of the Own Resources Decision to provide a new mechanism for calculating the United Kingdom’s reduced contribution, replacing the rebate; and(c) amendments to other regulatory arrangements as they affect the United Kingdom as proposed by both Houses of Parliament.(2) If such a motion is agreed to in the House of Commons, the Minister of the Crown may not make regulations under section 9(1) but must bring forward proposals to hold such a referendum, and the Government must seek such an extension of the Article 50 period as may be necessary for this purpose.”

[Lord Campbell-Savours (Lab)]

My Lords, under this amendment, if by the end of January 2019 negotiations have not concluded in an agreement endorsed by Parliament, then a Motion would be put to revoke Article 50 and authorise a second referendum with the Government having already opened talks and informally secured an agreement on three issues. These are: a non-rebated own-resources contribution maintaining our existing contribution under subsection (1)(b); amendments to regulatory arrangements of most concern to Parliament—and I suggest animal welfare as one—under subsection (1)(c), and stronger border controls under subsection (1)(a), on which I intend to concentrate my remarks.

My amendment, which is not Labour policy, would signal to our European partners an alternative to Brexit and end the delay which is on course to undermine our economy and, in my view, our industrial base. Negotiators would need to negotiate on the core issues that concern the British people and influenced the referendum. I am arguing today a direct linkage between loose border controls, insensitivity to public concerns over immigration and developing political extremism in both the United Kingdom and Europe.

My amendment finds its origins in February 2016, after David Cameron’s return from Brussels, having failed to secure a meaningful deal. I am not blaming Cameron: I blame inflexibility in Europe. As I set out in the February 2017 debate, I have always been a supporter of European union, having canvassed in its favour in 1975 and loyally supported union throughout the period of Labour difficulties on Europe in the 1980s. I have never wavered until the Cameron failure in 2016.

For me, the Commission is the problem: its insensitivity to public opinion, its almost breathtaking administrative arrogance and its inability to address the problem of developing political extremism in the European Union. The result of that was that the people gave the system a good kicking—as indeed I did. I voted leave, along with another 17.5 million people. Neither I nor they voted to leave the customs union. People in the industrial heartlands of south Wales, the Midlands and the north—the core leave vote—are not stupid; they were alert to the risks of economic and industrial upheaval, and they were not rejecting the whole single market. For most, these were obscure terms. Millions travel abroad every year; they like what they see and recognise the benefits. They are not bought off with billion-pound promises on healthcare—they know instinctively when politicians are telling porkies.

Those issues were not at the heart of the leave vote. Millions voted leave due to a feeling of national insecurity, stemming from what they believe to be permeable borders throughout Europe. They believe that we have lost control over immigration and fear migratory flows across Europe from other continents that will destabilise populations. Be all that a true or false, valid or invalid reason, all was not helped by inadequate official statistics hiding inertia in government. They believe that inertia threatens their jobs, their personal security, the national well-being, and, for some, their cultural heritage. That is at the heart of the leave vote, not antipathy towards Europe.

The Merkel initiative, Sangatte, the crisis in the Mediterranean, imported criminal activity and the bombings in Europe have all served to aggravate the condition. Our leadership in this country is in denial, and most frightening of all is that the pursuit of integration in areas such as education and the tearing down of indefensible cultural boundaries, which are desperately needed, have fallen victim to political correctness. The public know it, and all over Europe the public are kicking the system and challenging permeable borders. Even those of us who argue for managed migration and its benefits are deemed out of touch. Even we are told that we are in denial, that we do not understand, and that we live in silos of privilege—which, to some extent, is probably true. When we argue that migration is not the cause of all the insecurity they point to threats to their jobs and unscrupulous employers who insist on passive cheap migrant labour sheltering behind government indifference.

It is all an invitation to political extremism and anti-migrant prejudice. That is what happens when states do not listen. For those of us who believe in the vision of a new Europe, our dream is being shattered by the politics of that institutional indifference. Denial at home is only surpassed by denial overseas. France is divided and the Visegrad states are riddled with division; there was Italy last week, and the AFD in Germany. All over Europe people are in revolt; in some EU states, even freedom of movement is being questioned.

I spent Christmas researching anti-immigration and wider extremist movements generally in 32 inner and outer European states. The findings were breathtaking. The migration crisis has given not only birth but real lift to reactionary movements throughout the continent of Europe. One is reminded of the 1930s. It is about time the powers that be consider whether their failure to act collectively on migration and its resultant insecurity is undermining their historic role in the development of Europe. They should be talking about aiding development, increasing resources on aid and creating safe areas in parts of the world where people live in fear, at the same time as acting to hold back the forces of political extremism. I used my leave vote to promote that debate, on Schengen and wider European border control issues. Without a leave vote in the United Kingdom there would be no debate in Europe on these matters, just drift. This amendment is a modest attempt to forward that debate.

I recognise that tougher border controls may be limited in effect, but that would depend on border management policies, whether we introduce work permits, ID requirements and the profile of social support. The Government’s Brexit-inspired immigration advisory committee recommendations due later this year might point to a way forward. At least we can be sure that taking back control of borders would help in planning our public services. That is what the public expect of their Parliament.

For me personally this has always been a high-wire, high-risk strategy. I saw my own credibility slip away among colleagues in both Houses as I set out in 2016, two years ago, why I, as a remainer, was voting leave. Those of us who wanted a real debate on those issues which are of most concern to the public had to stand up and be counted. I repeat: without a leave vote there would be no debate. We cannot rely on the Commission, as it is smothering any debate that questions its direction of travel. It says that the pillars are immutable, all while some nation states are chomping at the bit for reform. We need tough negotiations and brinkmanship with a clear message. Commission inflexibility should be met by preparedness to go direct to nation states. If we leave the Commission to run amok and run rings round nation states, there will be no single market left in the end to defend. We should be leading the charge, not only for ourselves but for Europe as a whole.

For those in the Chamber who say that challenging a single market core principle is a pipe dream, I say that they underestimate attitudes in Europe towards Britain, our Parliament, our institutions, our history, our stability, our commitment to democracy, our response in history when they were all in trouble, and our financial contribution to Europe. They have an eye on our money and, in particular, the topslicing of budgets post Brexit, which worries many of them.

I believe that one day we will have real freedom of movement throughout Europe. There will be no borders, just regional differences and cultural traditions, but not now. At this time in our history, the developing crisis demands a rethink. Too much is at stake and the threat of extremism has to be tackled head on now. If we win a new deal on the basis of the agenda in this amendment, we could win a second referendum with a resounding vote and our nightmare would be over.

This has not been an easy contribution for me to make, particularly as I personally embrace immigration in its most positive form and in warmth. My great, great, great grandmother on my mother’s side was born in slavery in the colonies in the early 1800s. Even now, after 200 years, one is conscious of that legacy and the agony of those before me who suffered racism through extremism—political extremism—in those times. We want to love our fellow man, but sometimes love has to be tough to survive. My amendment is about being tough and stamping out the evil of intolerance before it is too late and sweeps across Europe. I beg to move.

[The Minister of State, Department for Exiting the European Union (Lord Callanan) (Con)]

My Lords, I thought that we would have a longer debate on this matter. I understand the intentions of the noble Lord, Lord Campbell-Savours, with this amendment. He is concerned, as are many other noble Lords, with the timeframe in which a deal with the EU is reached, and the consequences should Parliament choose to reject it. I also understand that the Government’s position on future referenda on extending the Article 50 period and what will occur if Parliament does not support our negotiated agreement is, to be fair, not one which satisfies the whole House. Therefore, I reassure the House once again that we are confident that we will reach a positive deal with the EU, as that is indisputably in the mutual interests of both the UK and the EU. Parliament will be given the opportunity of a vote on the final terms of the agreement, alongside the terms of our future partnership. There will be a clear choice—whether to accept the deal we have negotiated or move forward without a deal. Ultimately, if Parliament chooses to reject the deal, we will leave the EU with no deal once the Article 50 window closes.

The noble Lord proposes that, in the event of Parliament rejecting the deal, there should be another referendum on whether the UK should revoke its notification under Article 50 and renegotiate its membership of the EU. We had a very long and strong debate about a second referendum earlier this evening. As has been said, rather than second-guess the British people’s decision to leave the EU with a second referendum, the challenge as the Government see it is to make a success of it. That is how we are approaching the negotiations—anticipating success, not failure. It is vital that we try to reach an agreement that builds a deep and special partnership between the UK and the EU, not just for those who voted to leave but for every citizen of our country.

--- Later in debate ---

Finally, on timing, we have made it clear that it is our objective to reach an agreement with the EU by October 2018, as my noble friend Lord Duncan confirmed in the previous debate. It is an objective that is shared by the EU and it is one that we consider we are on course to deliver. As I have said in previous debates, we therefore expect that the vote will take place well before exit day. However, inserting statutory deadlines into this process would serve no purpose other than to weaken our negotiating position. Although an early deal is of course highly desirable, we must balance that with a recognition of the need also to achieve the best possible deal. I am afraid therefore that the Government cannot support this amendment and I hope that the noble Lord will feel able to withdraw it.

[Lord Campbell-Savours]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for his response. I am sure he will understand, as indeed will most Members of the House, that immigration is a very difficult subject to talk about and to seem fair in doing so. Tonight, I have tried to set out what I believe should be the thrust of our negotiations. If we settle that issue to the satisfaction of the British people, we will not be leaving Europe.

The Minister referred to the Cameron negotiations. The problem is that they took place in a climate within Europe in which these issues had not really been debated at great length. What has happened over the last two years? There has been a lot of water under the bridge and the nature of the debate is changing, because we have driven our European partners into a position where increasingly they are having to address these issues. I am arguing that there is now a very different market in Europe and that we should raise these matters again in exactly the same way as Cameron did then.

If Cameron had come back with a deal, I would have voted to remain. It was that single failure on his behalf that drove me into the leave camp and I hope that it can be righted. With that, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

Amendment 227BA withdrawn.

CPS: Disclosure of Evidence

Lord Campbell-Savours Excerpts

Monday 18th December 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Keen of Elie]

My Lords, the terms of any review are yet to be determined, but it will be an internal review into the particulars of this case.

[Lord Campbell-Savours (Lab)]

But that is where the problem lies. The noble Lord’s question is relevant: what about all the other cases? I have handled a lot of cases over the years in which people have been accused of rape. What about those cases in which a mistake or error of judgment was made?

[Lord Keen of Elie]

My Lords, here is a criminal cases review board, which was set up to address the sorts of issue to which the noble Lord refers.

Personal Injury Claims: Motor Vehicle Incidents

Lord Campbell-Savours Excerpts

Wednesday 1st March 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Keen of Elie]

My Lords, the way in which the discount rate is calculated will be examined with some degree of urgency. However, I do not accept that the discount rate will result in the inflation of the value of damages claims. It was designed originally to ensure that those claims would be properly calculated so that those who suffer life-changing injuries are properly compensated for the future.

[Lord Campbell-Savours (Lab)]

Does that mean that if the interest rate goes up, the discount rate goes up? I am only following the noble and learned Lord’s logic.

[Lord Keen of Elie]

The discount rate is related to the rate of return on government bonds, because there is an underlying assumption that those who receive large damages awards for future care will invest them in a very conservative manner, in bonds. Therefore, as the interest rate drops, so the discount rate will also drop.