Operation Midland

Lord Campbell-Savours Excerpts

Monday 3rd February 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My Lords, Operation Conifer has been scrutinised and it followed absolutely the procedures it would have been required to undertake. Its outcome, while not satisfactory at all to some of Sir Edward Heath’s friends and family, has certainly been fully and rigorously tested.

[Lord Campbell-Savours (Lab)]

My Lords, in addition to Carl Beech, two other people who have not been named publicly lied to the Midland inquiry. Why were those two people not named and did either of them make accusations against Lord Janner that were unjustified allegations?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My Lords, those who have not been charged are rightly anonymous; your Lordships’ House is very clear that we should not name people before charge. Whether people are named after they have been through a court process would be a matter for the courts.

Facial Recognition Surveillance

Lord Campbell-Savours Excerpts

Monday 27th January 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

The noble Baroness will understand if I do not discuss her ongoing JR against the Home Office. I do not know where the noble Baroness got her accuracy figures from. On the point about bias, the Met’s original trials found no statistically significant differences in identifying different demo- graphics, and Cardiff University’s independent review of South Wales Police’s trials found no overt discrimination effects. I repeat the figures I gave earlier: there is a one in 4,500 chance of triggering a false alert and over an 80% chance of a correct one, but I would be interested to see where the noble Baroness got her figures.

[Lord Campbell-Savours (Lab)]

My Lords, I strongly welcome the Government’s approach to this matter, but why is facial recognition an acceptable form of identity in the case of surveillance in combating crime yet it, and other personal identifiers, are unacceptable in the case of a national identity card, which could be equally important in combating crime?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I like the way the noble Lord got the identity card in; I was wondering when he was going to deploy it. The Question is on AFR, which we can use to identify criminals because it is a unique biometric, which an identity card may not necessarily be. I am not going to get drawn on identity cards today, but I congratulate the noble Lord on managing to get them in.

Road Closures in Central London

Lord Campbell-Savours Excerpts

Tuesday 8th October 2019 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

Or a carriage. We can be sure that she will get here by a very green method indeed. The noble Baroness might say that it is peaceful; it feels peaceful but with sinister undertones.

[Lord Campbell-Savours (Lab)]

My Lords, how do Ministers respond to the legitimate argument made by many of the demonstrators, that only demonstrations that irritate or annoy the establishment ever have any effect?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I do not think that is true. We talked about balance earlier; we are a country that absolutely allows for peaceful protest. We are talking about people not being able to get into work, businesses being disrupted and the disabled of your Lordships’ House and the other place not being able to get to their place of work. That is slightly different. It is absolutely vital that the people of this country are able to protest peacefully, but not to disrupt the entire infrastructure of the city of London.

Sir Richard Henriques Report

Lord Campbell-Savours Excerpts

Tuesday 8th October 2019 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I do not disagree with my noble friend calling it a miserable and disastrous affair. I know that the Home Secretary has been in communication with HMICFRS, not to try and direct the role of the inspection but to discuss with it what might be within the scope of the inquiry.

[Lord Campbell-Savours (Lab)]

My Lords, returning to the issue of anonymity, the law does not work, and the Minister knows it. Many reputations have been destroyed. Can I raise the question that I raised the other day about Mr Steve Rodhouse, director-general of operations at the National Crime Agency, who is principally responsible for this disaster? Why is he not going to be sacked?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I am afraid that the matter concerning the individual whom the noble Lord mentioned is a matter between him and the NCA.

Independent Inquiry into Child Sexual Abuse

Lord Campbell-Savours Excerpts

Thursday 4th July 2019 Lords Chamber

Asked by

[Lord Campbell-Savours]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what discussions officials from the Home Office have had with the Independent Inquiry into Child Sexual Abuse in the last month.

[The Minister of State, Home Office (Baroness Williams of Trafford) (Con)]

My Lords, as sponsors to the inquiry, Home Office officials have a responsibility to protect the inquiry’s independence and ensure that it has the resources it needs to deliver its terms of reference, as set out in the IICSA management statement. Regular discussions have taken place in the last month regarding such sponsorship.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Campbell-Savours (Lab)]

My Lords, is it not ironic that, while so-called complainants with substantial criminal records are accorded anonymity as witnesses before IICSA, those who stand accused, such as Harvey Proctor and Lord Janner, still have no anonymity, no right to cross-examine witnesses and no right of defence, and can still be freely attacked, even when they are dead? IICSA is not listening to Parliament. Is this not precisely what Sir Cliff Richard was referring to yesterday when launching the FAIR campaign, a petition for pre-charge anonymity now being supported by thousands every day? The law is an ass and should be reformed. I ask noble Lords to listen to the excellent episode of “The Moral Maze” broadcast last night on BBC Radio 4, in which these matters were dealt with beautifully.

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My Lords, on the first point, the hearings are inquisitorial and enable the inquiry to test witnesses and their evidence. All core participants are provided with the evidence; their legal teams are permitted to propose questions for the witnesses and apply to the chair for permission to put them. Regarding the point that the noble Lord made yesterday, I cannot comment on the handling of specific investigations but, as I said then, current police guidance is very clear and adopts a similar approach to that advanced by the petition to which the noble Lord refers. Suspects’ identities should not be released before charge, save in exceptional circumstances and with proper oversight. I am not aware of evidence to suggest that the police are not following that guidance.

Sexual Offences: Anonymity

Lord Campbell-Savours Excerpts

Wednesday 3rd July 2019 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

It might assist my noble friend if I say that the College of Policing’s authorised professional practice guidance on relationships with the media highlights the importance of respecting a suspect’s right to privacy. It states:

“Police will not name those arrested, or suspected of a crime, save in exceptional circumstances where there is a legitimate policing purpose to do so”.


The naming of an arrested person before they are charged must be,

“authorised by a chief officer”,

who must ensure that the Crown Prosecution Service is consulted.

[Lord Campbell-Savours (Lab)]

My Lords, how can the Government ignore this petition, which has been signed not by 10,000 people in the last 24 hours, as the Minister said, but by nearly 20,000 people? In the Janner case the police, before charge, placed an advert in the local media, with a phone number, calling on so-called Janner accusers to come forward. They did, with the result that there was a flood of compensation claims under the Criminal Injuries Compensation Scheme from people, most of whom had criminal records, all of which have now been withdrawn. There is something wrong with the arrangements as they currently exist and this petition, signed by all these people, is very important. It should be taken seriously by the Government.

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My Lords, I am not suggesting at all that the petition is not being taken seriously. The independent inquiry into historical child sexual abuse is taking a very robust approach to the institutional responses to those historical allegations of child sexual abuse.

Grooming Gangs

Lord Campbell-Savours Excerpts

Tuesday 14th May 2019 Grand Committee

[Lord Campbell-Savours (Lab)]

My Lords, in a three-minute, much-truncated contribution, I want to deal with the money issue. I understand that Rotherham’s expenditure on child social care increased by 90% between 2010 and 2016, and that, in the current year, it is having to spend a further £27 million over and above its 2015-16 budget. Where will the money come from?

In a Commons debate on 5 February, Nadhim Zahawi was forced to admit that the council would have to pay the lion’s share, at a cost to other services. In 2015-16, the Government paid £750,000 to deal with local pressures. They are setting up two national reviews into funding long-term children’s services and into needs and resources—what I call manaña money. They are establishing an assessment on demand arising out of Operation Stovewood, an NCA inquiry into exploitation by criminal gangs. Some £4 million is being allocated nationally for innovation and child exploitation services. This is simply not enough. The crisis is national, not only in Rotherham. The Government should be spending substantially more money in this area.

Sarah Champion has championed the position of people in Rotherham on this matter. In the debate on 5 February, she said:

“If MPs query what the extra money I am requesting is actually needed for, then I beg them to visit their local children’s social care teams and listen to what social workers say”.


In a very moving contribution on behalf of her constituents, she also said:

“I therefore beseech the Minister to recognise the value in children’s care services and recognise that every child in this country deserves an opportunity to thrive, and that that takes persistent sustained and ambitious intervention from Government to achieve”.


She asked:

“Will the Minister agree today to ask the Chancellor to meet this shortfall in the spending review?”.—[Official Report, Commons, 5/2/19; cols. 306-07.]


Finally, on the question of the review, I want to refer to some council taxes which the Minister might have in mind. In Rotherham a former council house in Band C, valued at £53,000, pays £1,528 per annum in council tax. In Westminster a Band H flat in Knightsbridge, worth £120 million, pays £1,507 a year. It is a disgrace. The money is there; the money is in London and it should be transferred out to the provinces to help in the areas where there are major difficulties.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

No, the noble Lord, Lord Blunkett, has raised a valid point. Taxi drivers can not only operate in another local authority but cross local authority boundaries into the one where they originally perpetrated the abuse. I will take that back because I do not know what the up-to-date position is on taxi licensing. I take it as a valid point but perhaps I can go on to talk further about funding, because a number of noble Lords have raised that.

In the last three years, the Government have provided over £7.2 million in funding for rape support services, which I think were mentioned by the noble Lord, Lord Pearson of Rannoch. This supports victims and survivors of rape and sexual abuse across England and Wales. These services provide independent, specialist support to female and male victims of sexual violence, including victims of child sexual abuse. Our ambition is to support victims and survivors wherever and whoever they are. That is why, from April this year, government funding for these support services has increased by 10% to a total of £24 million over the next three years. This will ensure, for the first time, that there are government-funded rape and sexual abuse support services in all 42 of the country’s police and crime commissioner areas.

[Lord Campbell-Savours]

Why should Rotherham have to pick up the lion’s share of this bill when this is a national problem and it already has high council tax arrangements, while other parts of the country with very low council tax, such as here in Westminster, do not have to pay or make any contribution at all? Surely the balance is completely wrong.

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I remind the noble Lord and others that we are now seven minutes into my 10-minute response, so there will be a number of questions that I will not get to. Of course, the amount of council tax set is entirely a matter for local authorities. I was always proud that Trafford had the lowest council tax in the north-west. It is a matter of individual decision-making. We could have a whole discussion on council tax, but I will not go there. I will say that it is an individual matter for local areas, and that the Government will increase spending from £31 million in 2018 to £39 million in 2021 to improve services and pathways for survivors and victims of sexual violence and abuse who seek support from sexual assault referral centres, regardless of age or gender.

Recognising the devastating impact of sexual exploitation by organised groups, the Government have also awarded £1 million through the tampon tax fund to the organisation Changing Lives to provide trauma-informed support to vulnerable women who have been groomed by groups of men for sexual exploitation in locations across the north-east and Yorkshire, including Rotherham. The project will result in the production of a toolkit to enable the approach to be replicated nationally.

We also remain committed to providing specialist services to support victims of child sexual abuse. In each of the last four years we have provided £7 million of funding for non-statutory organisations that support victims, and we have invested £7 million in the pilot of a “child house” model in London, which provides a victim-centred multiagency approach to supporting child victims of sexual abuse under one roof, based on international best practice.

However, ensuring offenders do not get the opportunity to exploit our children is key. Prevention and disruption are crucial parts of our response to tackling child sexual exploitation. That is why we launched our trusted relationships fund, which supports local authority-led projects working with children and young people to build resilience to harm through fostering healthy, trusting relationships with adults, protecting them from sexual exploitation, gang exploitation and peer abuse. As part of this, over £1 million has been awarded to Rotherham for the four-year programme.

The Government have also launched the new tackling child exploitation support programme to help safeguarding partners in local areas to tackle a range of threats to children from gangs, sexual and criminal exploitation, online grooming, trafficking and modern slavery. As part of our £40 million package in the child sexual exploitation progress report, we have recently published a child exploitation disruption toolkit, which brings together existing legislative powers to help local agencies to disrupt, deter and tackle sexual and criminal exploitation of children. Since 2016-17, we have provided £23 million of special grant funding to South Yorkshire Police towards the cost of Operation Stovewood, referred to by the noble Lord, Lord Campbell-Savours.

In September 2018 my right honourable friend the Home Secretary committed to providing an extra £21 million over the next 18 months to improve how law enforcement agencies pursue the most dangerous and prolific offenders. This includes further funding of regional organised crime units to tackle online grooming of children. The 2019-20 police funding settlement provides the biggest increase in police funding since 2010, including more money for local police forces.

The noble Viscount, Lord Falkland, asked why the police delayed pressing charges in the Rotherham cases. The key principle underpinning our policing model is the operational independence of the police and the CPS from government, and that they carry out their duties free from political interference, but it is a matter for the police to review what went wrong and, where appropriate, make a referral to the Independent Office for Police Conduct to investigate misconduct.

My noble friend Lady Newlove asked about the link between modern slavery legislation and this issue. We published a child exploitation disruption toolkit that brings together legislation, including the NRM and the modern slavery legislation, that safeguarding agencies can use and explains how they can use it to protect children from sexual and criminal exploitation. The noble Lord, Lord Paddick, made a very good point about RSE: if children do not know what a healthy relationship looks like, they will not know when they are being exploited.

The final point was made by the noble Lord, Lord Rosser. He asked what the Government are doing to improve the understanding of the true scale of child sexual abuse. We recognise that there is a need to better understand the scale and nature of it. Looking at some of the mistakes of the past, scoping reports published by the centre of expertise in 2017-18 found that, due to inconsistent definitions and research methods of previous surveys, it is currently very difficult to make comparisons and track trends over time. Better data is most definitely needed. The centre of expertise is working with partners to develop a detailed proposal for a national prevalence survey on child sexual abuse.

I realise that I have gone a minute over time. I will provide the noble Lord with the answer on the group that was set up, and share it with the Committee. I once again thank the noble Baroness, Lady Cox.

Identity Cards

Lord Campbell-Savours Excerpts

Tuesday 30th April 2019 Lords Chamber

Asked by

[Lord Campbell-Savours]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what further discussions they have had, and with whom, about the benefits of the introduction of identity cards.

[The Minister of State, Home Office (Baroness Williams of Trafford) (Con)]

My Lords, the Government have previously stated that the introduction of identity cards would be prohibitively expensive and would represent a substantial erosion of civil liberties. This remains our position and, as such, we have held no further discussions on the introduction of identity cards.

[Lord Campbell-Savours (Lab)]

My Lords, do not last week’s appalling statistics on the screening out by police forces of up to 80% of crimes such as burglary, mugging, theft, fraud, dangerous driving and even sexual offences ring alarm bells in government despite what the Minister has just said, and suggest that a national review is required of the investigative tools available to the police? Could such a review not consider the benefits of ID cards and protocols for the recording of fingerprints, iris recognition and even DNA, which would greatly help the police in the fight against crime?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

Of course the things the noble Lord mentioned latterly are all tools in the police’s armoury in investigating and dealing with criminals. Incorporating that into an ID card that embraces all those things goes against civil liberties. We believe that identity should be provided for the purpose for which it is needed, not for everything but just for a single event.

Retailers: Business Rates

Lord Campbell-Savours Excerpts

Monday 8th April 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bates]

Those businesses to which the noble Lord refers will have benefited from corporation tax falling from 27% to 19%—it is due to go down to 17%. It is also one of the reasons why, notwithstanding all the points highlighted by the noble Lord, levels of employment in this country are at a record high.

[Lord Campbell-Savours (Lab)]

My Lords, does the Minister believe that the relationship between the high street and online retailers is fair in terms of competition? This is a very simple question; it is either fair or not fair.

[Lord Bates]

Let me refer to a quote from the British Retail Consortium. It looked at this situation, and said:

“We fail to see how adding additional new taxes to the industry is really going to resolve the challenges we currently face”.

John Lewis said,

“this would actually have a detrimental effect … high streets need successful retailers with both a physical and online presence”.

I am not saying that this is easy and straightforward. It is complex, but the Government are seeking to come up with flexible solutions that address the concerns.

Tax: Short-term Lets

Lord Campbell-Savours Excerpts

Monday 1st April 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Campbell-Savours (Lab)]

We have a long-term rental licensing scheme whereby landlords have to register long-term lets. Why can the Government not devise a scheme for short-term lets on the same basis? That would help HMRC to gather the money due to it.

[Lord Bates]

It is an interesting idea. There is a scheme in Newham and there was one in Westminster. We are open to looking at whether more needs to be done. We also recognise however, that short-term letting—the Airbnb-type sharing economy—is filling a useful gap in the market. Schemes such as property allowances and Rent a Room exist to help people take advantage of it.