Hong Kong Protests

Lord Campbell of Pittenweem Excerpts

Tuesday 1st October 2019 Lords Chamber

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, I think it is important that we do not get ahead of ourselves here in a way that might make the situation worse. We are currently reliant on media reporting. As I have said, the situation is fluid. We do not yet know the precise circumstances of the incident that has been reported. It is difficult to confirm the reports in an independent way. We are monitoring the situation closely. I take note of my noble friend’s constructive suggestion, but I think it is too early to go down that path.

[Lord Campbell of Pittenweem (LD)]

While accepting the seriousness of the use of firearms, does the Minister understand that elements of those who wish to protest are using petrol bombs and Molotov cocktails? If such means are used to try to advance their interests, it perhaps creates a degree of fragility in which there is a very considerable risk that more serious exchanges will take place, including the use of firearms.

[Earl Howe]

The noble Lord makes an extremely good point. We have been clear all along that we condemn utterly any violence at all. It is essential that any protests that occur are conducted peacefully and within the law, and that the response of the authorities is proportionate.

Update to Parliament

Lord Campbell of Pittenweem Excerpts

Wednesday 25th September 2019 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I thank the noble Baroness and pay tribute to her work and the support she has shown in this area as well. I am very aware of the environment within which we are all working in this House and in the House of Commons and the incredible job that Peers across the House and MPs across the House of Commons do to represent their constituents to put forward important views, discuss and debate them, and scrutinise legislation. This House made very clear to me today, and also more broadly, its concern about the tone used in the Statement. That is clear; I will reflect that back.

[Lord Campbell of Pittenweem (LD)]

My Lords, my initial indignation about the Statement has been replaced rather by disappointment. Let me begin by saying that I have very great sympathy with the Leader of the House having to repeat this. It is a Statement that is vacuous; it lacks contrition or substance; and it fails, in my view, to make the kind of public apology to Her Majesty the Queen that is necessary in circumstances where she has been drawn into the political arena—not helped, if I may say so, by some of the observations of a previous Prime Minister.

The Statement says that:

“It is absolutely no disrespect to the judiciary”,


but that is the oldest form of weasel words. It goes on to say:

“the court was wrong to pronounce on what is essentially a political question at a time of great national controversy”,

emphasising the belief that the court was wrong. Then we look at the next paragraph, which says:

“So we have Opposition MPs who block and delay everything, running to the courts”.

What is that other than deliberately pejorative language, no doubt for the purpose in mind? To “block” is a pejorative word and “delay” even more.

Then we come to the least attractive feature of this Statement, which says that measures are delayed,

“including legislation on the NHS”,

suggesting that those that who run to the courts obstruct the good practice and the expansion of the National Health Service. If ever there were a piece of sleight of hand, to put it mildly, it is contained in that. Even more so is,

“and keeping violent criminals in jail”.

So those who went to court are to be blamed for adverse effects on the National Health Service and on keeping violent criminals in jail. That is why I am disappointed.

The Prime Minister had an opportunity to rise to the occasion, but he chose not to take it. I fear that that is precisely the judgment that not only Members of this House have formed, but which the public increasingly will form. It says a great deal about this Prime Minister—I will not rehearse his failures, as put so eloquently by my noble and learned friend Lord Wallace—that, at a time such as this, he is incapable of rising to the occasion.

I ask the Leader of the House one question: why did she feel it necessary to ask to see the legal advice about Prorogation? If Prorogation is a routine matter, as has been suggested, why was it necessary for her to be shown the legal advice that justified it? The inference that some might draw is that this was already accepted to be an unusual Prorogation.

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

First, the Prime Minister and this Government have made it clear—it was the first thing that I said in response to the first comments—that we have the highest respect for our judiciary, their independence and the work that they do. I am happy to put that on record again. In relation to the noble Lord’s question about the legal advice, as I said, I sought and received confirmation that the Prorogation was lawful. Therefore, on that basis, I attended the Privy Council.

Attorney-General’s Legal Advice

Lord Campbell of Pittenweem Excerpts

Wednesday 25th September 2019 Lords Chamber

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, in the circumstances in which we find ourselves—which the Supreme Court itself characterised as a one-off—it is likely that phrases are used in the heat of the moment that are judged inappropriate in the cool light of day. I do not believe that the noble Baroness quoted my right honourable and learned friend quite correctly when she referred to a statement to the effect that Parliament has no moral right to sit. I think what he said was:

“This Parliament … has no moral right to sit”.


That was in the context of a debate on the other place’s inability to reach a conclusion on the outcome of Brexit, not about this particular matter.

I cannot comment on any suggestion that there should be a political process to appoint judges; that is well beyond my brief and I do not believe that it is under consideration at all. Even if it were, it would require lengthy and considered debate and judgment involving political parties of all complexions. It is not under serious consideration at the moment.

In these circumstances, we need to reflect on the judgment that the Supreme Court has reached. Instant comments on it are possible, of course. However, it has major constitutional and legal implications, as the noble Baroness will no doubt accept. It behoves us all to look at what was said and at how that impacts on our legal position as parliamentarians, but also for the Executive to reflect on how they should behave in the future regarding any future Prorogation.

[Lord Campbell of Pittenweem (LD)]

The noble Earl will be aware that, in the course of delivering the judgment of the court, the noble and learned Baroness, the President of the Supreme Court, observed that the Government had put forward no reason for seeking Prorogation—in contrast, perhaps, to Sir John Major, who submitted evidence to the Supreme Court. Why did the Prime Minister not do the same? Why did he not provide a sworn affidavit, for example? Was he concerned that he might be guilty of perjury if he did so?

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, as my right honourable and learned friend the Attorney-General told the other place, this matter is covered by legal privilege. The convention that the advice of the law officers is not disclosed outside Government without their consent is one that it was felt should be observed closely. I am afraid I cannot comment further on that matter.

G7

Lord Campbell of Pittenweem Excerpts

Tuesday 3rd September 2019 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

Britain is responsible for 2.6 million square miles of ocean: we are the fifth largest maritime estate in the world. The Prime Minister announced £7 million for the Blue Belt programme to extend our work to protect the vital marine ecosystems in conservation areas, although that was overseas rather than within the UK. As for biodiversity targets in particular, for a number of reasons the current set of global targets have not reversed the global decline in biodiversity; therefore we discussed at the G7, which accepted our proposals, that we should seek to ensure that the ambition of the new global framework matches the scale of the problem, and that targets are measurable and time-bound, with strong accountability through monitoring and review mechanisms.

[Lord Campbell of Pittenweem (LD)]

My Lords, I respectfully caution the Leader of the House when it comes to interpretation of the paragraph that begins:

“Speaking in Berlin of possible alternatives to the backstop, Chancellor Merkel … said: ‘Once we see and say this could be a possible outcome—this could be a possible arrangement—this backstop is a sort of placeholder which is no longer necessary’”.


The last part of that paragraph is a conclusion, not a statement of an unequivocal position, and the conclusion depends upon something that is regarded as a possible outcome or arrangement. Until the United Kingdom provides something that can be a possible outcome or arrangement, the conclusion is valueless.

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

As I said, the Prime Minister has had good initial conversations with Chancellor Merkel, President Macron and others, he is seeing the Taoiseach next week, and he has been encouraged by the fact that there has been a willingness to talk about alternatives to the backstop. We are picking up the tempo of the discussions between our negotiators over the coming weeks so that we can drill down into the issue that has really prevented MPs supporting the withdrawal agreement. That is what we will be focusing on, because we are committed to trying to get a deal.

Priorities for the Government

Lord Campbell of Pittenweem Excerpts

Thursday 25th July 2019 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I am very happy to reassure my noble friend that we are a country that abides by our international obligations and will continue to do so.

[Lord Campbell of Pittenweem (LD)]

My Lords, it is not often that one gets the promise of Arcadia and Utopia in the same Statement. Is it the Government’s position that, in seeking to open any negotiation with the European Union, they will do so in the expectation that it will not seek concessions from our side of the argument?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

We will be in negotiations with the European Union, which means, of course, that two sides will be involved and looking for what they want—but both sides want a deal. We want a constructive, strong relationship with the EU going forward; they want that, and we want that. That is why we are very keen to begin discussions with both the Commission and EU leaders to try to get over the current impasse because at the moment, we do not have a withdrawal agreement that we can get through the House of Commons.

European Council

Lord Campbell of Pittenweem Excerpts

Monday 24th June 2019 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I entirely agree with the noble Lord. That is most certainly the approach that the Prime Minister took at this Council and which we will continue to take in future.

[Lord Campbell of Pittenweem (LD)]

My Lords, one matter that leaps out of this Statement is that Iran was discussed only in the margins. How can it possibly be that a matter of such pressing urgency should have been discussed only in the margins of the meeting? What response did the Prime Minister get to the discussions that she had? Indeed, with whom did she have them?

On these occasions it has become almost trite to say that nothing has changed, but one thing that has certainly not changed—I hope the noble Baroness the Leader of the House will agree—is that the 27 remaining members of the EU refuse to consider any renegotiation of the withdrawal agreement. Will she pass that message on to the two candidates for the leadership of the Conservative Party?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

The noble Lord is absolutely right that, as I said, there was no substantive discussion of Iran at the Council but it was indeed raised in discussions at the margins. However, I am sure he is aware that over the weekend my right honourable friend the Minister for the Middle East went to Tehran and met senior Iranian government representatives there. That visit was an opportunity for further engagement about our long-standing concerns over Iran’s destabilising activity. In those conversations he reiterated our assessment that Iran almost certainly bears responsibility for the recent attack on tankers in the Gulf of Oman and stressed that such activity needs to stop to allow for an immediate de-escalation of rising tensions. He also discussed the nuclear deal and reiterated our support for that, as well as raising our concerns over the continued imprisonment of Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe. So while discussions did not happen at the Council, as the noble Lord points out, I assure him that we took the lead in having discussions in Tehran over the weekend.

The noble Lord is absolutely right that without a withdrawal agreement, as the EU has said, there can be no implementation period.

Leaving the European Union

Lord Campbell of Pittenweem Excerpts

Wednesday 22nd May 2019 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

People have not seen the withdrawal Bill yet. It is being published on Friday, so I urge the noble Lord and colleagues down in the other place to wait, look at it, reflect, and understand that we need the Bill in order to leave the EU, whatever you wish the future relationship with the EU to be. I would ask everyone to look at the Bill and consider it, and then the vote will be brought forward at Second Reading. I hope that we will then see the Bill begin to pass, and we can then move on, as everyone here has said, to the future relationship with the EU.

[Lord Campbell of Pittenweem (LD)]

My Lords, I begin by expressing my admiration for the Leader of the House, first, for her loyalty to the Prime Minister and, secondly, for her courage under fire. But is not the fate of these proposals to be found in the rather brutal headline of the national newspaper which used to be regarded as the house magazine of the Conservative Party—namely, “Desperate, deluded, doomed”?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I am grateful to the noble Lord for what I think are his kind words—I shall take them as that anyway. As I said, I believe that we want to leave the EU in an orderly and smooth manner. This deal is the way to do that, and that is why I continue to stand here and defend it in the face of fire from all sides. However, the British people made a decision, we are determined to deliver it, we have made a further offer to MPs to consider it and I hope that, in a couple of weeks’ time, they will vote for the Second Reading of the withdrawal Bill.

European Council

Lord Campbell of Pittenweem Excerpts

Monday 25th March 2019 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

As I think I and a number of Front-Bench colleagues have said, we have been preparing for no deal. We have contingency plans in place, particularly in relation to healthcare. Noble Lords have rightly raised this issue on a number of occasions. We have consistently said that we do not believe that no deal is the best outcome. That is why we have a deal on the table and that is what we continue to work for. I entirely agree that leaving with the deal the Prime Minister has negotiated is a far, far better outcome.

[Lord Campbell of Pittenweem (LD)]

My Lords, now that the Government have abandoned the conventions of confidentiality and collective Cabinet responsibility, can the Leader of the House tell us whether any of the proposals under consideration carry majority support in the Cabinet?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I think the noble Lord will recognise that I have never breached that convention, and I will not be doing it now.

Leaving the European Union

Lord Campbell of Pittenweem Excerpts

Tuesday 26th February 2019 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

The Prime Minister’s focus over the next couple of weeks will be on achieving a deal that can get the support of MPs across the House of Commons, so that we can move on to focus on our future relationship and develop the strong partnership with the EU that we all want to see.

[Lord Campbell of Pittenweem (LD)]

My Lords, fairly read, this Statement is about process, not progress. The truth is that the Empress still has no clothes. The Prime Minister has nothing of substance to tell either the House of Commons or your Lordships’ House. I want to ask two specific questions. First, what legal changes did the Prime Minister discuss with Mr Juncker last week, as she refers to in the Statement? Secondly, why does she assume in the ninth-to-last line of the Statement that there will be legally binding changes to the backstop? Where is the evidence in support of that assertion?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

The Prime Minister has set out the changes that we are looking for. The Attorney-General was out there last week and he is out there again today. He is having discussions on the legal nature of the changes we are looking for.

Leaving the European Union

Lord Campbell of Pittenweem Excerpts

Tuesday 12th February 2019 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I believe that both the EU and the UK want an agreement. We want a good deal and a strong relationship going forward. That is what everyone is working towards. Everyone needs a cool head. We need to negotiate and discuss and bring back a deal that the House of Commons can support so, as I said, we can move on to discussing the strong, future partnership that we all want between the UK and the EU.

[Lord Campbell of Pittenweem (LD)]

My Lords, this Statement is both vacuous in content and indeed in language. The truth is that the only important sentence is the one that reads:

“As expected, President Juncker maintained the EU’s position that they will not reopen the withdrawal agreement”.


Where is the hard evidence that the European Union is willing to depart from that position? If it were persuaded to do so, what concessions will the Government be willing to make in return?