Housing and Planning Bill
Debate between Lord Cameron of Dillington and Baroness Maddock
Baroness Maddock (LD)
My Lords, during the previous Parliament, we discussed this policy in some detail in other Bills. The Minister will have heard that everything was in place to make it happen. The Government owe it to the Committee to tell us what big thing happened to cause this reverse in policy. We have heard that everything was in place, so we are owed an explanation on that.
Secondly, this morning I hosted a breakfast for the National Home Improvement Council. We were discussing energy efficiency, and one of the big criticisms was about why Governments cannot give some consistency to policy. When we set up the Committee on Climate Change and passed the Climate Change Act, I thought we would have consistency of policy because all parties agreed on it. I cannot tell you how disappointed I am that, since last year, so many of the things that we thought we all agreed on have been reversed. The Government owe it to us to explain why. What are the big factors that have changed their mind?
Lord Cameron of Dillington (CB)
My Lords, I had not really intended to intervene in this debate because better, more knowledgeable people than me have spoken. However, I add my voice in support. I have built houses in Scotland and England in the past 10 to 12 years and therefore put in a very low-carbon spec. No consumer of any intelligence would build a house without a low-carbon spec because the annual savings in heating that you get give you a nearly 50% return on your money, but unless builders and developers are obliged to give the consumer what they really want, it is unlikely to happen in all cases.
It is interesting that this debate should follow the one on self-build because I cannot believe that anyone who is building their own house would ever dream of not putting in a very good low-carbon spec. The Government should ensure that consumers—also known as voters—get what they want.
Infrastructure Bill [HL]
Debate between Lord Cameron of Dillington and Baroness Maddock
Lord Cameron of Dillington
I thank the noble Lord for his intervention and I am glad that my remarks are invoking a certain amount of support. I totally agree with him: ground source or air source heat pumps, particularly on a large scale, are very efficient in climate change terms due to the reduction in the emission of greenhouse gases. Obviously one of the disadvantages is that you have to cost in the piping of hot water. Even with photovoltaics, the cost of those come down by something like 24% every time the number is doubled. There is a huge advantage in encouraging this because I am sure that the cost of pipes would come down, too.
Another advantage is that, as technology changes and sources of heat and efficiency go up and down, it takes only one change to get the whole community on to the most efficient fuel, burner or heat source. That is much more likely to happen than changing all the heat sources in all the houses. As I say, as our housing infrastructure catches up with the nation’s needs over the next few years—as I really hope it will, particularly in terms of affordable housing—DECC and DCLG ought to get together and ensure that these sorts of scheme are encouraged in new-build houses.
Baroness Maddock
My Lords, I support the noble Lord, Lord Cameron, in looking at community heating. I recommend that he looks at the district heating scheme in Southampton set up many years ago. I was a councillor at the time. Alan Whitehead, the MP there, and I set that up together. Barratt Homes put a new block of flats on to that scheme. We are going back nearly 20 years, but those schemes work.
There is a housing estate in Pimlico that still has a district heating scheme. I live in a flat in Dolphin Square when I am here and am really sorry that the owners of the square came off that scheme. Ever since, we have had gas boilers. Sometimes we do not have hot water. That never happened under the district heating scheme. Those are two schemes that have been successful. I wish the Government would use some of these examples to encourage other people to take this scheme up, as it works. People used to say that it was very difficult for the reason the noble Lord gave—they want their own boiler. However, it has been done successfully and where people have it, they are very satisfied.