EU Council

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Barry Gardiner

Tuesday 5th January 2016 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. and learned Friend is absolutely right. One of the problems that has emerged is that the legal changes that have been made have defined free movement in a more and more generous way. It used to be the case that it was free movement to go and take a job for which you had applied, whereas today, I think I am right in saying, 60% of those who come to Britain are job applicants—they do not have a job when they come. This is another reason we need to address the welfare issue, because those people will be particularly affected by changes to in-work welfare, and we will not have that unnatural draw to Britain. Many people who come to Britain work hard and contribute and all the rest of it, but we need to make sure that our arrangements reduce the unnatural pull of migration to Britain, as my hon. and learned Friend set out.

[Barry Gardiner (Brent North) (Lab)]

The Prime Minister has said that the EU referendum will reflect the choice of the British people, but if the choice of the British people does not reflect the choice of the Prime Minister, will he resign?

[The Prime Minister]

This is the choice of the British people. Our aim is to set forward a choice for the British people that they want. They can choose either to stay in a reformed European Union or to leave the European Union. Come what may, I will continue to lead the Government in the way I have.

Syria

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Barry Gardiner

Thursday 26th November 2015 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend makes a very good point. What lies behind wanting to take this action is not just the protection of ourselves here in this country but building a Syria to which people can return. That is what they want.

[Barry Gardiner (Brent North) (Lab)]

I commend the Prime Minister for the way he has brought this matter to the House. The failure to date of the allied operation to defeat Daesh is not through a lack of air power or bombs that the UK could provide; it is through a lack of sufficient and efficient ground forces able to capitalise on the temporary gains air power is able to achieve. The Free Syrian Army is not adequate to, nor even focused on, the task of defeating Daesh. It is equally focused on undermining Assad’s regime. Until the Government can guarantee a strong ground presence, does he accept that his strategy is one of hope, not confidence?

[The Prime Minister]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for what he says about the way I am presenting this case. I am not presenting this case as one of perfection. Syria is very far from perfection. Even Iraq, where we have the ground troops of the Iraqi security forces and the peshmerga, is a far from ideal situation. As Opposition Members have said, we need to see more Sunnis engaged in the Iraqi armed forces. Obviously, in Syria we need more ground forces to help us do what we do. I believe, however, that to conclude from that we should do nothing is a counsel of despair. We should be taking this action, building on the resources we have.

European Council

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Barry Gardiner

Monday 19th October 2015 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

The European Commission has said that it will not campaign in the referendum and those of us who want Britain to stay in a reformed European Union probably breathed a sigh of relief when we had that news. There will clearly be an in campaign and an out campaign, and there will be plenty of material on which everyone can make up their mind.

[Barry Gardiner (Brent North) (Lab)]

With your customary perspicacity and eye for detail, Mr Speaker, you, too, will have noted that the section of the Prime Minister’s statement that is entitled “UK renegotiation” is punctuated with 14 separate “dot, dot, dot” gaps. Did the Prime Minister fill those gaps at the European Commission and did he lay down red lines to the commissioners? If so, will he state that to the House now?

[The Prime Minister]

I can put the hon. Gentleman out of his misery. I put the “dot, dot, dots” into my statement because sometimes I have a bit of trouble reading what I have written down. It is purely stylistic and has nothing to do with the content, but I think he knows that.

Syria: Refugees and Counter-terrorism

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Barry Gardiner

Monday 7th September 2015 Commons Chamber

[Barry Gardiner (Brent North) (Lab)]

The Prime Minister has said that Britain will take in 20,000 refugees over the next five years, but he has paradoxically said that we will not accept them as refugees—they will not be given refugee status. He said they would be given status as being under humanitarian protection. As he knows, that is a discretionary leave to remain that does not entitle them to settlement. These are people who desperately need security and stability in their lives. How is he going to reconcile that with the status that he is proposing to give them?

[The Prime Minister]

That is a very good question. There are two reasons for taking this approach. One is that by granting people the humanitarian passport, as it were, they do not formally have to go through asylum procedures to prove that they are refugees; we are taking them once they have met the criteria, and then they have the right to stay. Of course, at the end of those five years some may choose to return to Syria, but many will want to stay here and apply for settlement rights, which of course they will be able to do.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Barry Gardiner

Wednesday 4th March 2015 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I am very happy, with my hon. Friend, to praise that business and to pay tribute to all those who give disabled young people the chance of having more choice over wheelchairs. Anyone who has had a child in a wheelchair knows that choice is important so that their child can have a better quality of life. I am delighted that this change in the law will help make that possible.

[Barry Gardiner (Brent North) (Lab)]

Q3. My father died of cancer; my mother died of cancer; and my sister died of cancer. A year ago, the Prime Minister set a target for those on urgent cancer referrals to receive their first treatment within two months. Last year, 20,000 people did not have that target met for them. Does the Prime Minister understand that, even if the national health service can survive another five years of a Conservative Government, 100,000 cancer patients cannot?

Ukraine (Flight MH17) and Gaza

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Barry Gardiner

Monday 21st July 2014 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I will listen carefully to what my hon. Friend has said. The difficulty is that we are making the argument that the territorial integrity of Ukraine should be respected. That is why the people who should be securing the crash site and making it available for investigation should be the Ukrainian Government—it is their country. To bring in UN forces in some way would be to accept that there is a legitimate case to be made for the separatists who are trying to break up the country through violence.

[Barry Gardiner (Brent North) (Lab)]

The Prime Minister is right to condemn utterly the downing of MH17 and the way in which the bodies have been dealt with. Does he understand why those who recall that the west supplied and encouraged the protesters of Maidan and held out to them the probably false prospect of the EU welcoming them into its bosom, and who saw the support that the west provided for the overthrow of Ukraine’s former President as a clear provocation of Russia, find it ironic that the Prime Minister now accuses Russia of being the party that initiated and fomented the tragic division in Ukraine?

[The Prime Minister]

I respect the hon. Gentleman, but I really do not agree with that. The former President of Ukraine wanted to sign an association agreement with the EU. I believe that if a sovereign country in Europe wants to sign an association agreement with the EU, it should be free to do so and Russia should respect it. I have always said that Ukraine does not have to choose between a European future and a Russian future; it should seek to be a bridge between the two. Europe is prepared to let that happen, but apparently Vladimir Putin is not.

European Council

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Barry Gardiner

Monday 30th June 2014 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend makes an important point. One of the things that will be key to the EU’s success in the coming years is whether it can deal with a Europe that requires change for the eurozone and change for Britain. From my discussions with Jean- Claude Juncker, I think he understands that that is a very important agenda on which we have to make progress, otherwise the British people will take a different view.

[Barry Gardiner (Brent North) (Lab)]

Does the Prime Minister not experience the slightest cognitive dissonance in arguing on the one hand that the voters of Europe feel that the European project has gone far enough, while arguing on the other that the borders of Europe should be extended all the way to Donetsk in the Leninsky district of Ukraine?

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Barry Gardiner

Wednesday 29th January 2014 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

That might well be a question for the Second Church Estates Commissioner, my right hon. Friend the Member for Banbury (Sir Tony Baldry), who guides me on these important issues, but I will go away and look into the issue of the Bishop of Bath and Wells. I shall try to put the image of Blackadder out of my mind and to come up with the right answer.

[Barry Gardiner (Brent North) (Lab)]

If we are to have a Parliament that reflects the people that it serves, the Prime Minister must be disappointed that one in 10 of his women MPs who came into Parliament in 2010 have indicated that they will not stand again, and that one of his most senior women Select Committee Chairs is now facing deselection. What is the Tory party’s problem with women?

[The Prime Minister]

I am immensely proud of the fact that, while in the last Parliament we had 19 women Conservative MPs, the figure has risen to closer to 50 in this Parliament. That is progress. Do I want us to go further and faster? Yes I do, and we will start by targeting the hon. Gentleman’s seat at the next election.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Barry Gardiner

Wednesday 26th June 2013 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

First, I commend my hon. Friend for this campaign that she is fighting for openness, transparency and clarity in our NHS. She makes an important point, which is that there was a culture under the previous Government of not revealing problems in the NHS. The former Health Secretary is shaking his head, but this is what the former head of the CQC, Baroness Young, appointed by the previous Government, said—[Interruption.] I know the Opposition do not want to hear it, but they are going to have to hear it, because it is important that we understand the culture that went wrong under Labour. She said this:

“There was huge government pressure, because the government hated the idea that—that a regulator would criticise it by dint of criticising one of the hospitals or one of the services that it was responsible for.”

That is what Barbara Young said. And she said:

“We were under more pressure. . . when”—

the right hon. Member for Leigh (Andy Burnham)—

“became minister, from the politics.”

There was a culture problem under Labour, and the sooner the Opposition admit it, the better.

[Barry Gardiner (Brent North) (Lab)]

Q8. We now know from the latest Office for National Statistics figures that borrowing did rise last year, and the Prime Minister will recall that the Chancellor of the Exchequer two years ago said, “We have asked the British people for all that is needed, there is no need to ask for more.” Today, why is he asking for more?

[The Prime Minister]

We have to have a spending review to cover the year 2015-16, which was not covered by previous spending reviews. We have got the deficit down by a third. It is hard, painful and difficult work but we are clearing up the mess left when the hon. Gentleman was a Minister in the previous Government.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Barry Gardiner

Wednesday 24th April 2013 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I do not always agree with what the hon. Gentleman says, but on this occasion he is absolutely right and the House should heed what he says: we should be doing much more to encourage cycling. The report has many good points. I commend what the Mayor of London has done in London to promote cycling, and I hope local authorities can follow his lead in making sure that we do more.

[Barry Gardiner (Brent North) (Lab)]

Can the Prime Minister tell the House whether the deep shade of red he turned when asked by my hon. Friend the Member for Ogmore (Huw Irranca-Davies) whether he had been consulted on the appointment of Tanni Grey-Thompson was actually in place of the answer “Yes”?

[The Prime Minister]

We have an excellent new head of both Sport England and UK Sport—that is what matters. These are decisions for the Secretary of State, and it is absolutely right that she takes them.

Leveson Inquiry

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Barry Gardiner

Thursday 29th November 2012 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend makes an important point. From what I have seen in the report, Lord Justice Leveson is relatively complimentary about the work of the CPS and the decisions it took, but some of its workings do bear careful study.

[Barry Gardiner (Brent North) (Lab)]

The Prime Minister is on record as saying he would implement Leveson as long as it was not “bonkers”. It now appears that he regards Leveson’s recommendation of statutory underpinning as bonkers. Can the Prime Minister therefore explain why Lord Leveson said that was essential?

[The Prime Minister]

What I have said is that the principles set out by Leveson of what independent regulation needs to include and what it needs to look like are absolutely right and should be put in place, but, frankly, we do not do our duty in this House if we do not examine these proposals properly and ask the relevant questions, and instead just wave through a change that will make a very big difference to our country. If we were to do that, we would not be operating properly.

EU Council

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Barry Gardiner

Monday 2nd July 2012 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

As a rather wishy-washy member of the Church of England, I am finding answering this question rather difficult. The point I would make is that there are opportunities, but we should show patience because our colleagues in Europe are dealing with a fire-storm. We can pursue our interests and, I think, deliver on them over the medium term.

[Barry Gardiner (Brent North) (Lab)]

The EU decision on the oil embargo on Iran has caused great joy in the paint shops around the Arabian Gulf, as vessels have gone into dry dock to be repainted, renamed and reflagged. Can the Prime Minister set out for the House what practical steps are being taken to monitor Iranian vessels to ensure that there is an embargo in fact as well as in name?

[The Prime Minister]

The hon. Gentleman raises an important point. I believe that the embargo will be robust and we will make sure that it is policed. I do not want to set out in public what all those measures will be, but we will make sure that the points he makes are taken on board.

Informal European Council

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Barry Gardiner

Tuesday 31st January 2012 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I obviously remember very well the exchange rate mechanism experience. Indeed, it is that experience that makes me so passionate about not joining the single currency or the euro—because it is so difficult to exit from it if it does suit our needs or our arrangements. I believe that Britain is a big enough economy to have its own interest rates and its own monetary policy to suit our needs. My hon. Friend asks for guarantees. What we have done is already to have got out of the bail-out mechanism to which the last Government signed us up and, as I clarified a few moments ago, we have set out very clearly our conditions to the IMF.

[Barry Gardiner (Brent North) (Lab)]

The Prime Minister says that his veto has left the European Commission in the room to protect against encroachment on single market issues and competitiveness. Will he remind us of the name of the noble baroness who represents the UK on that Commission and of which party will therefore represent Britain’s last line of defence?

[The Prime Minister]

The point the hon. Gentleman has clearly not understood is that the treaty itself sets out that the treaty cannot be used to encroach on the single market; it is there in black and white. As I have said, if that is not the case we have the ability to take action, including legal action, to protect our national interest.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Barry Gardiner

Wednesday 7th September 2011 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I am delighted to join my hon. Friend in praising everyone who contributed to this very imaginative and sensible gift for Her Majesty’s diamond jubilee. Perhaps I could pay particular tribute to him because he has worked so hard to make this work. I think it will be a fitting tribute and it is something that the country should focus on. To have a diamond jubilee is an extraordinary thing for us to be able to celebrate in our lifetimes.

[Barry Gardiner (Brent North) (Lab)]

Q12. With electricity and gas bills going up by 20%, and with 6 million families in this country now facing fuel poverty, does the Prime Minister still think it was right to cut the winter fuel payment to pensioners by £100?

[The Prime Minister]

Let us be clear: we are going ahead with the winter fuel payment set out by the previous Labour Government in their Budget. At the same time, we are increasing the cold weather payments on a permanent basis, so this Government are being more generous than the previous Government.

Public Disorder

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Barry Gardiner

Thursday 11th August 2011 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend is right. We should use all means to bring home to those criminals the damage that they have done to their communities and to local people, and he makes a number of suggestions in that regard.

[Barry Gardiner (Brent North) (Lab)]

Does the Prime Minister accept that the events of the past five nights in London have changed the nature and context of the debate about police cuts? If he persists with them, the people of London will not understand and they will not forgive. Even his own party’s Mayor now opposes him on that policy.

[The Prime Minister]

I do not agree with the hon. Gentleman. I think that people in London will understand our saying that, over four years, police forces have to make cash reductions to the budget and live within those means. People in London have seen over the past three days what can be done when numbers are surged and police are brought out from behind their desks and on to the streets—from 3,000 to 16,000 in just two days.

Public Confidence in the Media and Police

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Barry Gardiner

Wednesday 20th July 2011 Commons Chamber

[Barry Gardiner (Brent North) (Lab)]

The Prime Minister will know that Operation Weeting began just four days after the resignation of Andy Coulson. Can he therefore confirm to the House that no one at No. 10—neither he nor any of his officials or advisers—had any notice of the commencement of Operation Weeting?

[The Prime Minister]

I can only speak for myself: I had no notice of it. I know full well that Andy Coulson’s resignation, and the timing of it, were not connected to any event like that. The timing of it was simply a result of his recognising that he could not go on doing his job with that swirl of allegations going on. To be fair to Andy Coulson, he recognised that the second chance that I had given him had not worked. That is why I have been so clear about that issue today.

The third issue is how we can bring about a situation, which he have discussed a lot today, in which governing parties eager to hold on to power or opposition parties yearning to win power can have a sensible, healthy relationship with media groups and owners without ducking the regulatory issues that need to be addressed. We must never again get into a situation in which the issues of effective media regulation are left on the shelf year after year.

Public Confidence in the Media and Police

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Barry Gardiner

Wednesday 20th July 2011 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

No, but I have received quite a number of representations from hon. Members, and quite a few from others as well.

[Barry Gardiner (Brent North) (Lab)]

I welcome the Prime Minister’s transparency in making available the 26 meetings with News Corps and News International. I welcome the fact that he was able to say that no inappropriate conversations took place between him and BSkyB. Can he tell us that no appropriate conversations about the bid took place at those meetings also?

[The Prime Minister]

All my conversations are appropriate.

Phone Hacking

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Barry Gardiner

Wednesday 13th July 2011 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

Obviously one of the things that the inquiry will have to look into is how people can obtain redress from newspapers when they have been wronged. That has been looked into for many years, but the problem is that Governments have not acted. I believe that part of the solution is an effective regulatory system. If people end up having to sue a newspaper, things have gone too far. It ought to be possible to obtain proper redress through a regulatory system that has not just the confidence of the press but the confidence of the public: I think that is the key.

[Barry Gardiner (Brent North) (Lab)]

Can the Prime Minister tell the House whether he had any conversations about phone hacking with Andy Coulson at the time of Mr Coulson’s resignation—not his appointment—and will he place in the Library a log of any meetings and phone calls that have taken place between him and Andy Coulson since Mr Coulson’s resignation?

[The Prime Minister]

Of course, all the time during Andy Coulson’s employment, when articles were appearing and there was a storm of allegations, I had that conversation with him many times, because I had employed him. I had accepted his assurances: assurances which, as I have said, were given to many others. In the end, the reason for his resignation, the reason for his giving up on the second chance, was that he just felt that he could not go on doing the job, a job that he did well—no one denies that he did the job well—because of all the allegations. As for contacts, I have said what I have said about transparency, and I think that that is right.

European Council

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Barry Gardiner

Monday 27th June 2011 Commons Chamber

[Barry Gardiner (Brent North) (Lab)]

Will the Prime Minister tell the House the amount of British taxpayers’ money being made available to Greece indirectly through loans from the International Monetary Fund and confirm that, should a default occur that ultimately causes further defaults in Europe, that money might also be at risk?

[The Prime Minister]

Let me make two points to the hon. Gentleman. First, our share of the IMF is a little over 4%, so that is our contingent liability share of what the IMF dispenses. Secondly, the point about the IMF—this might also be of some reassurance to my Back-Bench colleagues—is that it will lend money only if it is confident that it is part of a programme that a country can repay, and that is important to consider. I say to those who are sceptical about our role in the IMF that Britain, as a leading economic power in the world, has an important role to play as a shareholder and board member of the IMF, and the idea that we should somehow be seeking to reduce that is wrong.

Counter-terrorism

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Barry Gardiner

Tuesday 3rd May 2011 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I do not think it should automatically change our timetable; I think we should stick to that timetable. As I said, however, as well as the military track we are pursuing, there is also the political track of encouraging the Taliban into a political process. I would think that that will be helped by the fact that bin Laden is no more, as the futility of maintaining the link with al-Qaeda is seen. If the Taliban sever that link, there is every prospect of a political settlement, which prospect can clearly lead to British forces coming home. I do not think we should imagine that the timetable will be different, but we should work hard to take every opportunity brought about by the end of bin Laden.

[Barry Gardiner (Brent North) (Lab)]

The Prime Minister famously once accused the Pakistani Government of facing both ways. Is it not now clear that, whichever way they were facing, Pakistan’s Inter-Services Intelligence was clearly focused on Abbottabad and the security compound there, and that the co-operation of which he spoke must now have as part of its condition the root and branch reform of the ISI? If not, the fight against terror will be doomed from the beginning.

UN Security Council Resolution (Libya)

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Barry Gardiner

Friday 18th March 2011 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend makes an extremely good point. Of course, there is always a case that goes something like, “Don’t start down this path because it might involve you taking so many difficult steps to achieve it.” It seems to me that the stronger argument is that it is better to act than to stand back and do nothing, and witness the slaughter of civilians, when that is so clearly not in our national interest. It is better to act than to remain passive. We have set limits on what we are able to do, because we cannot have an occupying force. I believe that what we are doing can help to protect civilians and can, over time, help to bring about a better future for Libya.

[Barry Gardiner (Brent North) (Lab)]

I welcome the UN resolution, but I oppose Britain’s military involvement in implementing it. The UN resolution is not to secure a no-fly zone for humanitarian protection, but an extraordinary authorisation of regime change. Unless the Prime Minister believes that Libya’s Arab and African neighbours lack the capacity or the compassion for their Libyan brothers and sisters to act independently, why does he insist on putting British military personnel at risk?

G8 and G20 Summits

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Barry Gardiner

Monday 28th June 2010 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

That was an ingenious way of bringing goal-line technology into a statement on the G20, and I am amazed by your latitude, Mr Speaker—[Interruption.] There was no point blaming the referee; as I said, we were not robbed, we were beaten. However, to Chancellor Merkel’s credit, every time Germany slotted another one past us, she apologised.

[Barry Gardiner (Brent North) (Lab)]

Will the Prime Minister confirm that the only occasions in the past 25 years when England have beaten Germany at football have been under a Labour Government? When does he expect that we will be able to do that again?

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton and Barry Gardiner

Wednesday 16th June 2010 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend is entirely right that every single person in this country is now carrying £22,000 of debt because of the mess that the last Labour Government left us. The fact is this: if we do not do something about it, by the end of this Parliament, we will be paying £70 billion in debt interest. That is more than we spend on schools and more than we spend on defence. It would be a tragic waste of money. That is why, however painful it is, we have to get to grips with the deficit that we were left by the last Labour Government.

[Barry Gardiner (Brent North) (Lab)]

Can the Prime Minister explain why the changes to local government funding last week mean that, in Witney in Oxfordshire, people will see an uplift of 1.7%, while children in Brent will see a loss from their education budget of £1.88 million? Can it have anything to do with last week’s statement by the Minister with responsibility for local government, the Under-Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government, the hon. Member for Bromley and Chislehurst (Robert Neill), who said:

“Those in greatest need ultimately bear the burden of paying off the debt”?—[Official Report, 10 June 2010; Vol. 511, c. 450.]

[The Prime Minister]

I am sure that the hon. Gentleman will welcome the fact that we are going to introduce the pupil premium, so that the money follows our country’s poorest children to the schools that they go to. That is what is going to happen. That is what he should support and I will look forward to him supporting it when it comes.