Civil Nuclear Road Map

Debate between Lord Callanan and Lord Lucas

Monday 15th January 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I thank my noble friend for her suggestions. Of course, we need to pay close attention to the skills needs of the future, which is why we have set up the nuclear skills task force and are eagerly awaiting its report for us to take forward. My noble friend is also right that we need to keep a close eye on the costs of the different technologies. She is right to say that they are essentially long-term projects, but many of our energy infrastructure projects are long term—even offshore wind developments take a number of years to bring to fruition. Many of the projects that are coming on stream now were started a decade ago. Obviously, we want to try to bring down the timescale for those deployments, but nevertheless all those infrastructure projects contributing towards our long-term energy security of supply are essentially long term, and nuclear will be an important part of the mix.

[Lord Lucas (Con)]

My Lords, is the European pressurised reactor working reliably and safely anywhere in the world and, if so, where?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

My noble friend makes a good point—but, of course, these are matters for the regulators, which will keep a close eye on the safety, security and efficacy of the technology.

Cement Industry: Carbon Dioxide

Debate between Lord Callanan and Lord Lucas

Wednesday 12th July 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Lucas]

To ask His Majesty’s Government what proposals they have to support lower volumes of carbon dioxide production, as well as increased carbon capture and storage, in the cement industry.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Energy Security and Net Zero (Lord Callanan) (Con)]

My Lords, the Government are committed to working with the cement sector to explore decarbonisation options and are pursuing several strategic funding and policy initiatives. This includes developing options for access to CCUS. In March this year, as part of the CCUS cluster sequencing process, the Government published the Track-1 project negotiation list, which included the Hanson Padeswood cement works project. That was one of five projects to proceed to negotiations for support through the relevant business model.

[Lord Lucas (Con)]

I thank my noble friend for that encouraging Answer. As cement accounts for about 8% of our carbon dioxide output, this is a crucial area for us to pay attention to. May I draw my noble friend’s attention to the importance of standards in this area? So many specify which materials should be used, rather than what performance should be achieved. If the Government could help the transformation of that, there would be much more ability to use bath furnace slag and more modern additives such as graphene.

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

The figures I have are slightly different; my figures say that the sector accounts for 1.5% of the UK’s total greenhouse gas emissions. The sector has made strong progress in reducing its emissions. Of course, we stand by to help it further. It is a particularly difficult sector to decarbonise, given that 70% of its emissions are process-related.

Retained EU Law (Revocation and Reform) Bill

Debate between Lord Callanan and Lord Lucas

Committee stage
Thursday 2nd March 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Lucas (Con)]

My Lords, I am sad that the Government have chosen not to address the points made by this Committee concerning democracy and the proper role of this House in reviewing legislation, and are stepping away from the conversation that has been offered by the Opposition. I see this as a Bill which is headed for the Parliament Act—I cannot see any other option being offered by the Government. I hope that they will step away from that; I think that we can achieve a better result if all sides looked at how the role of this House can be properly fulfilled with this sort of legislation. I think that is really important for this House and for democracy, and therefore I personally very much hope that the noble and learned Lord, Lord Judge, will persist with his amendment—not today, obviously.

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

With that one final intervention, let me say to my noble friend that he knows I greatly respect his view. I think the Government’s record, certainly on all legislation that I have been responsible for taking through this House, shows that the Government always listen carefully. The Lord Privy Seal will agree that I am always very frank with the advice that I give to colleagues within Government about what is possible within the Government’s legislative sphere. We always listen very carefully to what the House has to say. The Government want to get their business through, obviously. We will reflect, as we have done, on amendments that are passed and proposed in this House, and will of course seek an alternative opinion from the House of Commons if amendments are passed. But I think that our record shows that, on some very controversial pieces of legislation, the Government listen to what the House has to say.

Retained EU Law (Revocation and Reform) Bill

Debate between Lord Callanan and Lord Lucas

Committee stage
Thursday 23rd February 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Lucas (Con)]

In the context of some of the arguments advanced by my noble friend, has he considered extending the principle embodied in Clause 15(5), which says that, in particular subject areas, changes cannot increase the regulatory burden? This would address some of the points made in the amendments by giving an overall protection that workers’ rights will not be reduced by the changes made as a result of the Bill. It might give some comfort to those of us who support the Bill and do not doubt the Government’s intentions to see them embedded in law, in just the same way as they propose in Clause 15(5).

More generally, I am disappointed that my noble friend does not address the issue of the role of Parliament. To my mind, it is a great demonstration of the need for the House of Lords that this Bill has arrived in our House in this shape, and if we let it go out of this House in the same shape, we will demonstrate why we ought to be replaced.

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I totally understand the point my noble friend makes; I am a passionate believer in the rights of this House and have happily stated on many occasions within government that in many cases we do a much better job of scrutinising legislation than the other House. It sometimes makes life a little uncomfortable for Ministers such as me defending this, but when I talk to some of my colleagues in the Commons, I realise how relatively little time is given to some legislation compared to this House.

I also understand my noble friend’s first point. I reiterate that it is certainly not the Government’s intention to reduce workers’ rights. The House will get tired of hearing me repeat it, but we have higher standards than most of the rest of Europe and we have every intention of maintaining that.

Energy Bill [HL]

Debate between Lord Callanan and Lord Lucas

Committee stage
Monday 19th December 2022 Grand Committee

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I thank all noble Lords for their contributions to this brief debate. I acknowledge the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Teverson: it will be difficult for me to ask him in future to limit the number of Liberal Democrat amendments after tabling all these. I quite take his point there; all I will say is that I flagged up to noble Lords at Second Reading that these amendments would be coming forward. There will be more on other subjects, as I also flagged up at Second Reading, which are still being drafted and will be tabled as soon as possible.

I first remind noble Lords, in acknowledging the point made by my noble friend Lord Lucas, that heat networks will play a crucial role in the UK reaching its net-zero targets, as they are one of the most cost-effective ways of decarbonising heating, particularly in built-up areas, where it would be more difficult to have individual property solutions. Noble Lords will probably be aware that the Climate Change Committee estimated that around 18% of UK heat will potentially come from heat networks by 2050—up from around 2% currently—to support the cost-effective delivery of our carbon targets. However, the sector is currently unregulated.

The Bill will provide regulation for that sector and give Ministers a power to introduce, among other things, consumer protection rules and carbon emission limits on heat networks. The majority of heat networks are performing perfectly well and often run by local authorities, housing associations and others, but one or two small, private networks are abusing their customers. Of course, once you are connected to it, that is effectively a monopoly. You have no choice but to take your business elsewhere, so regulation is required in the sector.

I will now talk to Amendment 162. The Bill already allows the Government to control heating sources by providing for authorisation conditions to contain emissions limits; this is contained in paragraph 14(3)(f) of Schedule 15. By gradually lowering emissions limits, authorisation conditions will drive changes in the types of fuels and technologies used to power various heat networks.

Using emission limits allows for dynamic, ongoing regulation. I submit that mandating specific heat sources is a more limited approach that risks the Government and this House picking winners. The exact approach for implementing emission limits will of course be subject to further consultation with industry and stakeholders. Settling on a pathway ahead of that consultation would, at this stage, be unwise.

Removing whole fuel types risks ignoring other factors that will come into play, such as technological improvements, system efficiencies, varying fuel costs, the replacement cycle of generation assets, and the need for flexibility in a system to provide separately for back-up or peak demand.

The Government are of course committed to net zero by 2050, and we see heat networks playing a vital role in this. The Government wish for the Bill and its secondary legislation to ensure that the heat network sector thrives and expands and is not held back in this goal. Therefore, I hope that the noble Lord, on behalf of the noble Baroness, Lady Worthington, will feel able not to press the amendment.

[Lord Lucas (Con)]

My Lords, I am delighted that my noble friend is so optimistic and shares the Climate Change Committee’s optimism about the future of heat networks. Will he therefore encourage his colleagues to support deep geothermal which, if we are to need that volume of energy, must be a serious contender as it is on the continent. However, in this country, since we have not had the exploration, there is a lot of uncertainty about whether the particular strata will behave in a way that allows heat extraction. It would be a real help to that industry if the Government were to take an interest in how to reduce that first well risk, so that we can get going in the way that the Netherlands and Germany have to take advantage of the deep heat that we all believe—or the British Geological Survey at least believes—is down there and available.

Similarly, is my noble friend content that the regulations governing tidal rivers—such as the one just outside—are such that we can use those as a source of heat for heat networks?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

My noble friend makes some good points. There is tremendous potential from deep geothermal, and we are funding some exploratory projects. However, the performance is mixed: some projects have drilled and not found any rocks hot enough to power the network. What is perhaps more viable, particularly in mining areas, is the use of waste mine water for powering heat networks. There are a number of exciting schemes that I have visited, particularly in the north-east of England, where they can extract the warm water from existing mine workings, put it through heat exchangers and use it for heat networks. There are a lot of promising developments in this area.

I will get a more detailed answer for my noble friend on his question about tidal waters, but I know that there are some concerns in the industry about over-regulation from the Environment Agency in some of these areas—they have been flagged up to me. I wrote to Defra about a year ago on this subject but, to be honest, I cannot remember what reply I got—if any—at the time. I will write to him on that subject.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I am of course happy to set out to noble Lords the details of our position in writing. We want to reduce bureaucracy as much as possible but we have an overriding need to ensure the stability of the energy system. Certain technical requirements need to be met by these schemes. We want to encourage them as much as we possibly can, but that comes with limits. We will certainly write with as many details as we can provide.

[Lord Lucas (Con)]

My Lords, my noble friend has been very helpful, but I am none the less fairly disappointed by the replies he has been able to give. To illustrate, I live in Eastbourne and, if you stand on the hills above Eastbourne—Britain’s sunniest town—and look down at hundreds of acres of industrial and retail estates and car parks, about the only solar panel you will see is on the local college’s eco training hub. That is because the ownership and commercial benefits of these areas are extremely complicated. No one is in a position to get a cost-effective, reasonable-scale scheme going on their own; it needs something that will work as a whole.

A decent feed-in tariff need not be subsidised—it can be below market rate—but there needs to be something so that there is a base on which you can build. My noble friend’s department was kind enough to send a representative to our recent solar summit. One of the main things that came out of a gathering of local businesses, energy suppliers and so on was the need for a basis on which local collaboration can be built, not to create something that requires a subsidy to produce electricity at a greater cost than would otherwise be the case, but to enable a very complicated situation to come together and be supported into commerciality, allowing local virtuous circles of electricity generation and consumption to emerge. That is not happening in our system at the moment, which is ridiculous. Something needs to happen to enable us to move from 200 hectares of white roof to 200 hectares of black roof, and to get the benefits of that.

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

As I said, a number of suppliers already offer competitive tariffs in the market. They will provide long-term certainty on pricing. There are many examples of industrial units that have already put solar panels on. Obviously, the most cost-effective way is for them to use that power themselves and export any surplus power to the grid using the smart export tariff guarantees. I will answer that question again: the Government are supportive of community energy schemes. We want to see more of them, but we think that is best delivered through the market framework. I will happily provide noble Lords with more detail in writing.

Biomass Electricity Subsidies: Deforestation

Debate between Lord Callanan and Lord Lucas

Thursday 20th May 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

Provided that it is not commercially confidential, I will certainly share that with the noble Lord.

[Lord Lucas (Con) [V]]

Instead of razing American forests would it not be a better use of our subsidies to stimulate the development of a coppice harvesting service in the southern UK? Coppiced woodlands are rich ecologies that need regular felling but they are not getting it because there is currently no economic outlet for the timber.

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

My noble friend makes a good suggestion. We did try that, of course. Subsidies have been available for more than a decade but we have seen a lack of uptake because they cannot compete with the use of waste products in huge commercial forestries in the US.

Industrial Strategy: Local Growth

Debate between Lord Callanan and Lord Lucas

Monday 26th April 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

That was not a deliberate omission. Local authorities are still key to the development and delivery of these strategies and policies, along with the LEPs, the mayoral combined authorities and, of course, local businesses themselves that need to be involved in the way forward.

[Lord Lucas (Con) [V]]

My Lords, I refer to the paragraph from Build Back Better headed “Changing the way we invest in places”. For a town such as Eastbourne, what will be the empowered local institution and with whom will it cohere and co-ordinate?

Climate Change Committee: Carbon Budget Report

Debate between Lord Callanan and Lord Lucas

Tuesday 16th March 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

The noble Lord makes some good points. Local government is indeed a key partner in delivering net zero, and this Government are supporting it with a range of funding streams covering key decarbonisation areas such as transport and building. Local government bodies are, of course, key to leading transition in their areas, leading by example on their own estates, and supporting and enabling others to follow their campaigns.

[Lord Lucas (Con) [V]]

My Lords, does my noble friend the Minister agree that, since we are asking for long-term, fundamental and voluntary changes in behaviour, we should do that on the basis of trust and openness? Will the Government investigate the potential for setting up a repository of the best available data and research, so that individuals can easily establish, for instance, how much they are helping by adopting a vegan diet and how on earth it is possible for the local council to say that it is recycling when it is mashing up broken glass with our newspapers?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I certainly agree with the first part of my noble friend’s question about the need for trust and openness. The Government are currently examining how best to support the public in making green choices and adopting sustainable behaviours. This includes identifying information that people need and how it can best be communicated, and providing it in an accessible format.

Domestic Energy Efficiency: Retrofitting

Debate between Lord Callanan and Lord Lucas

Monday 1st March 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

It would of course be best to have long-term guarantees of funding, but we continue to have these discussions internally. I agreed earlier that the green homes grant scheme has been a challenge. We are working hard to improve its performance because we must get it working and up and running to bring about confidence in the supply chain.

[Lord Lucas (Con) [V]]

My Lords, does my noble friend recognise that the advent of another huge government subsidy scheme will be widely welcomed by cowboys? Can he assure me that the new scheme will work closely with local authorities to ensure that those thinking of having their homes retrofitted can find a reputable person to undertake this easily and quickly?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

My noble friend’s reference to local authorities reminds me that the other part of the scheme, the local authority delivery scheme, is working extremely well. We are working closely with a number of local authorities. He is right that we need to invest more in training. We have awarded more than £7.5 million of funding to support the development of new and better retrofit technologies.

COP 26

Debate between Lord Callanan and Lord Lucas

Wednesday 18th November 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I am sorry if the noble Lord does not feel involved in the campaign, but parliamentarians, alongside members of the public, are all very welcome to get involved in all of these campaigns, because they require all of us to work together to achieve our aims.

[Lord Lucas (Con) [V]]

My Lords, as the original Question said, at the root of this there is a need to change our behaviours. Can the Minister tell me more about the Government’s plans to help us spend more of our holidays within the United Kingdom, rather than flying abroad? Much of our hospitality infrastructure has been gathering dust, to put it mildly, over the past 50 years as people have got used to Mediterranean and further-afield holidays. I am sure that the Government could find constructive ways to rapidly improve the level of our domestic tourism offering and ways of promoting it to our people.

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

My noble friend is tempting me on to dangerous ground with this question. I agree with him that it would be great if more people took their holidays using some of the excellent facilities that are provided for in this country. Of course, however, people should also be free to go on foreign holidays if they wish to do so. One of the purposes of the plan is to see how we can spend more on areas such as decarbonising jet fuel so that aeroplanes in the future will not be so polluting. Hopefully, when we get to our ambitious targets, people will be able to take advantage of excellent holidays either in the UK or, if they wish to do so, abroad.

Small and Medium-sized Enterprises: Public Procurement Contracts

Debate between Lord Callanan and Lord Lucas

Monday 7th September 2020 Lords Chamber

[The Lord Speaker (Lord Fowler)]

Short questions, please.

[Lord Lucas (Con) [V]]

My Lords, could my noble friend please tell me what departments are doing to make sure that SMEs can get on the preferred list of companies—where departments use this—and that the buyers within those departments are rewarded for making the extra effort to deal with small suppliers and are not risking their own careers by doing so?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

The noble Lord makes a very good point. We encourage all SMEs that are interested in bidding for public sector opportunities to use Contracts Finder, which lists all tenders over £10,000. SMEs can create an account to get email updates for opportunities that align with their business interests. Public sector contracts are, of course, awarded after a fair and open competition process and commercial buyers are encouraged to ensure that all tenders are suitable for SMEs

Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies

Debate between Lord Callanan and Lord Lucas

Tuesday 28th April 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan]

I agree. As I said in my Answer to the noble Baroness, Lady Thornton, SAGE is not a membership body. The number of participants varies from meeting to meeting. There have been over 100 participants in all of the 29 meetings that have taken place on the Covid pandemic. It is up to the Chief Scientific Adviser and the Chief Medical Officer to invite the appropriate academics and advisers to each meeting. The number and names of participants vary from meeting to meeting.

[Lord Lucas (Con)]

My Lords, does my noble friend agree that science is a matter of doubt, not certainty, and that it is therefore extremely important that the Government understand the way in which scientists have reached their conclusions, just as it is important that scientists understand in detail the way that the Government are thinking?