Further Discussions with the European Union under Article 50 of the Treaty on European Union

Debate between Lord Callanan and Lord Garel-Jones

Wednesday 27th February 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan]

The noble Lord will not be surprised to know that I have not seen read-outs from all those conversations, but I know from speaking to other Europe Ministers at various gatherings that there is considerable sympathy for many of our arguments.

It is imperative that the British people are able to trust in the Government to respect democratic processes and deliver effective outcomes for them. For that reason, it is our firm belief that even to consider holding a second people’s vote would set a damaging precedent for our democracy and the principles that underpin our constitutional order.

[Lord Garel-Jones (Con)]

Would my noble friend give way?

[Lord Callanan]

I thought that might prompt some interventions.

[Lord Garel-Jones]

My noble friend will no doubt be aware of the ruling by the Supreme Court following the 2016 referendum. It stated that the,

“legal significance is determined by what Parliament included in the statute authorising it, and that statute simply provided for the referendum to be held without specifying the consequences. The change in the law required to implement the referendum’s outcome must be made in the only way permitted by the UK constitution, namely by legislation”.


Consequently, if Parliament is unable to reach a consensus on any particular deal, is not the logic then that the people should be consulted again?

[Lord Callanan]

I am afraid I do not follow my noble friend’s argument. Parliament agreed to respect the outcome of the referendum in tabling the notification of withdrawal Bill.

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[Lord Garel-Jones]

But the Supreme Court has made it clear that under the British constitution, while Parliament agreed to hold the referendum, it did not agree on the outcome, and that outcome must be agreed by Parliament. If Parliament cannot agree, the people must be consulted.

[Lord Callanan]

I am afraid that I do not follow the noble Lord’s logic on this. Parliament did support the outcome of the referendum. The Government made it clear at the time that they would abide by the result and spent £9 million putting a leaflet into every house in the country saying, “It’s your decision—we will respect the outcome”. Parliament then voted for the notification of withdrawal Bill, which gave notification of our intention to leave the European Union. Parliament then confirmed our exit date in the EU withdrawal Bill, passed in the summer. So it is not true that Parliament has not supported the result of the referendum.

Brexit: Article 50

Debate between Lord Callanan and Lord Garel-Jones

Monday 29th October 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan]

That is a slightly strange question from the noble Lord, because of course if we withdrew our notice under Article 50 we would remain members of the EU—which the last time I looked at it, was not the policy of his party. Therefore his other options do not really hold water. We do not unilaterally abrogate treaties in this country. We are a law-abiding nation, we abide by our legal agreements and commitments; and the proper and correct legal way to withdraw from the EU is under Article 50, and that is the process that we are following.

[Lord Garel-Jones (Con)]

Does my noble friend agree that the Question from the noble Lord seems to be opening the way to a departure from the European Union with no deal at all? Is it not clear that that is not supported not only by your Lordships’ House but by Her Majesty’s Government either?

[Lord Callanan]

The noble Lord’s Question would result in us remaining in the EU, if we withdrew our notification under Article 50. Of course the Government do not support a no-deal exit. We are preparing for that unlikely eventuality, as is the responsible thing to do, but we hope to negotiate a good and ambitious deal with the European Union.

Brexit: EU Commission

Debate between Lord Callanan and Lord Garel-Jones

Wednesday 10th October 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan]

It is sensible contingency planning by a responsible Government. As I have said on numerous occasions, we do not want no deal. We hope to negotiate a deal and are working hard to do so, but if we are unsuccessful there will be no deal and we need to make the appropriate preparations. That is presumably why we are advertising these posts and why we published our technical notices.

[Lord Garel-Jones (Con)]

Does my noble friend the Minister agree that in the world of grown-up politics, difficult compromises have to be made on both sides of the table? Does it not increasingly look as if those compromises are being made and that we may end up with a deal that will be in the interests of the European Union and this country, while not satisfying the extreme views in the world of childish politics?

[Lord Callanan]

I agree with my noble friend that compromise is necessary, which is what led to our White Paper proposals. The UK’s position has evolved and we have put forward a compromise. It is only right and reasonable to expect that the EU compromises in exchange for that.

Brexit: No Deal

Debate between Lord Callanan and Lord Garel-Jones

Tuesday 11th September 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan]

I cannot comment on the document referred to by the noble Baroness because I have not read it. However, as I have said repeatedly in this House, we do not want no deal. We are negotiating to get a good deal, but a responsible Government will prepare for every eventuality, and we are preparing for no deal through the issuing of technical notices.

[Lord Garel-Jones (Con)]

My Lords, while of course it is the case that at this stage no one knows what the outcome of these discussions will be, can the Minister confirm that, just as it was parliamentary statute which authorised the Brexit referendum, as the Supreme Court has ruled, whatever the outcome may be, it must be laid before Parliament?

[Lord Callanan]

Yes. The withdrawal agreement—about which we spent many a happy hour debating in this House—enshrined that in statute. When we have negotiated a deal, it will be put to a so-called meaningful vote in the House of Commons and it will also be debated in this House.

Brexit Transition: European Parliament Membership

Debate between Lord Callanan and Lord Garel-Jones

Thursday 7th June 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Garel-Jones (Con)]

My Lords, is it not the case that the Supreme Court has ruled that while Parliament did indeed authorise the referendum, it has yet to authorise the outcome of these discussions?

[Lord Callanan]

Well, Parliament will get the opportunity to do so when we have negotiated the withdrawal. We have said that we will put it to a meaningful vote in both Houses.

European Union (Withdrawal) Bill

Debate between Lord Callanan and Lord Garel-Jones

Monday 19th March 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan]

I am afraid that I was not old enough to vote in that referendum, but my father tells me that he voted to join a Common Market at the time and nobody ever asked him whether he wanted to join a European Union. But that is a separate argument.

We in the Government believe it to be our solemn duty to deliver on the instructions of the people.

[Lord Garel-Jones]

Will my noble friend give way?

[Lord Callanan]

I will make a little progress, if I may. I will take interventions later. I am on only the third paragraph of my speech.

I will not embarrass the Liberal Democrats further by quoting their leader, the right honourable Member for Twickenham, Vince Cable. The noble Lord, Lord Newby, says that that was years ago. It was not; it was in September 2016; it was only 18 months ago that he said that we should not have another referendum. Again, he is entitled to change his mind, but I hope that the Liberals will have the good grace to be a little embarrassed about it.

The Government never hesitated in accepting the verdict and, in line with the ruling of the Supreme Court, the Government than put the question of the power to notify Article 50 to Parliament. In passing it, this House and the other place voted with a clear majority to authorise the Prime Minister to trigger Article 50. The clue was in the name: it was the Article 50 notification of withdrawal Act, passed in the other place and in this House with large majorities. It was to give our notice to withdraw from the European Union, authorised by Parliament.

[Lord Garel-Jones]

Is my noble friend saying that he disagrees with the ruling of the Supreme Court that although it was indeed the case, Parliament did not authorise the outcome of those discussions? That is what the Supreme Court has ruled.

European Free Trade Association

Debate between Lord Callanan and Lord Garel-Jones

Tuesday 27th February 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan]

I am tempted to make a comment about a basket case but that is probably not a good idea. The noble Baroness is referring to the point that when we leave the EU, we will start off with identical rules and regulations, as she well knows. The issue then is how we diverge in the future and how that divergence should be managed, should the EU want to adopt different regulations or should we want to do so. If we do and it does not affect the functioning of the ambitious free trade we want between us and the EU, why should we not be able to? Clearly, there needs to be a mechanism to manage that.

[Lord Garel-Jones (Con)]

My Lords, now that the leader of the Labour Party does not seem to believe any longer that the European Union is a capitalist conspiracy against working people, does my noble friend the Minister agree that his support for the single market can serve only to undermine the standing of this rather successful organisation?

[Lord Callanan]

I am slightly confused about what the Labour Party’s position is this week. Last week, they were against the customs union; this week, they seem in favour of it. Perhaps next week they will be in favour of a single market, then against it again the following week. I can say only that I agree with Barry Gardiner, their international trade spokesman, who said in another place that,

“in voting to leave the EU the British people voted to leave both the single market and the customs union”.—[Official Report, Commons, 5/9/16; col. 47-48WH.]

He then went on to write an article in the Guardian—a well-known journal of record—saying that retaining membership of a customs union would be “deeply unattractive” because it would stop us negotiating our own trade deals. He is supposed to be their trade spokesman.

Brexit: Economic Analyses

Debate between Lord Callanan and Lord Garel-Jones

Wednesday 24th January 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan]

Well, this Government are pro-business and pro-jobs, and I can only assume that the noble Baroness has missed the unemployment figures this morning, which show that unemployment under this Government is at a 42-year low.

[Lord Garel-Jones (Con)]

My Lords—

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[Lord Garel-Jones]

As the Minister has stated, is it not a simple matter of common sense that, while these negotiations are ongoing, anything that seeks to reveal the Government’s position on any issue whatever can only undermine the Government’s position?

[Lord Callanan]

My noble friend speaks great sense. It is a matter of common sense—but, apparently, it is not a common sense shared by the Liberal Democrats.

EU Exit Negotiations

Debate between Lord Callanan and Lord Garel-Jones

Monday 13th November 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Garel-Jones (Con)]

My Lords, I ask my noble friend the Minister to comment on the ruling of the Supreme Court in this matter:

“The 2016 referendum is of great political significance. However, its legal significance is determined by what Parliament included in the statute authorising it, and that statute simply provided for the referendum to be held without specifying the consequences. The change in the law required to implement the referendum’s outcome must be made in the only way permitted by the UK constitution, namely by legislation”.


Does that not mean that, while we obviously wish the Government well in the negotiations, the final outcome will be judged by Parliament?

[Lord Callanan]

Of course, we have said that Parliament will get a final vote on the withdrawal agreement, and we have just announced that there will be legislation to implement that. Parliament also voted for Article 50 to be implemented and the EU notified that we are leaving the organisation on 29 March 2019.