European Union (Withdrawal Agreement) Bill

Lord Bruce of Bennachie Excerpts

Report: 2nd sitting (Hansard - continued) & Report stage & Report: 2nd sitting (Hansard - continued): House of Lords
Tuesday 21st January 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town (Lab)]

The intention behind this amendment is to provide a key reassurance to Scotland and Wales. As we know, Clause 38 as it stands is pretty meaningless. As we said in Committee, it was added basically as a sop to the European Reform Group. However, as the Explanatory Notes make clear, the clause makes no material difference to the scope of Parliament’s powers.

The problem with it is more what it does not say in that it fails to refer to the Sewel convention—the convention that the UK Parliament will not normally use its powers to legislate on devolved matters without the agreement of the National Assembly and the Scottish Parliament. Therefore, this stand-alone restatement of what I would call the bleeding obvious in regard to Parliament, without even a nod to the conventions, appears to backtrack on the devolution settlements.

The Welsh Government will therefore wish the Sewel convention to be restated. The noble and learned Lord the Minister said last week that that was not necessary because the settlements are already written into law. Perhaps they are but, for the same reason, there is also no need to restate parliamentary sovereignty. The problem is that doing one without the other gives the impression that the convention is being downplayed, and that is not helpful. I think I am right in saying that the Welsh Assembly, even at this moment, is debating legislative consent, and the rejection of this amendment will not be taken well by that gathering. For all sorts of reasons, it would be a poor precedent for this Bill to be the first to be passed without legislative consent from the Welsh Assembly.

The Government could decide to do what the noble Lord, Lord Newby, urged in Committee and take out Clause 38 altogether. That certainly would not detract from the Bill. They could still do that or they could accept this amendment. Either move would offer comfort to each of the devolved authorities that our departure from the EU was not being used to take back any powers or activities from their purview. Such reassurance, I know, would be welcome. The clock in Wales is ticking. I hope that the Minister can accept the amendment. I beg to move.

[Lord Bruce of Bennachie (LD)]

My Lords, I have added my name to the amendment and shall explain why. The noble Baroness, Lady Hayter, has made it clear that in a sense this clause is superfluous, but it is superfluous in a slightly sinister way. It asserts the sovereignty of Parliament and effectively says, “Therefore, this Parliament can always overrule the devolved legislatures.” We know that to be sovereign law but putting it in a Bill rubs salt into open wounds. Scotland and Northern Ireland have already refused consent and it is expected that Wales will vote today to do the same.

Over the last 20 years we have developed what is described as a quasi-federal constitution, but it is not federal; it is unitary, and Parliament, or Westminster, is sovereign. That is a fact. However, the whole point of the Sewel convention was to try to give comfort and reassurance to the devolved legislatures that they have a standing and a status that Westminster will take into account and acknowledge, and in all circumstances do its best to accommodate. It is a convention, not a law. That is obviously the argument as to why we should maybe move towards a federal constitution, which would effectively confer these conventions into law. I welcome the fact that the Labour Party is now engaged in serious consideration of federalism, which has been a long-standing policy aspiration of the Liberal Democrats. Quite genuinely, we should work together on a cross-party basis to develop the thinking behind this.

The Minister’s words may matter—not just the terms of the legislation. There should be a sense of concern that, as powers come back from Brussels to the UK, those powers that do not return directly to the devolved legislatures and Administrations will come to the central UK Government and effectively weaken the existing devolution settlement, unless there is a genuine spirit of co-operation where the devolved Administration’s views are properly weighed and taken into account. If the Government simply say, “We brought back control to a sovereign Parliament. Whether you like it or not, this Parliament can do what it likes and we intend to do so”, that is not a good way to take the UK forward.

I do not necessarily subscribe to the view that Brexit makes the break-up of the United Kingdom more or less likely. The pain and disruption of Brexit might well discourage people in Scotland and Ireland from wanting to add other disruptions to it; I do not think it is as clear and simple as that. It behoves the Government to show a genuine engagement with the devolved Administrations; not just to use sweet words but to look for practical solutions that will ensure that the devolved Administrations are taken into account.

If the Government turn around and say, “We hear how you voted but we are carrying on regardless”, that will not provide comfort and confidence that devolution is here for real and will develop. It requires the Government to show a lot more accommodation. I agree with the noble Baroness, Lady Hayter, that there are two ways to resolve this. The Government could simply repeal the clause and leave the Bill vacant on this, or they could accept the amendment. To do neither of those things would leave people in all the devolved areas very suspicious of the Government’s intentions.

[Baroness Bryan of Partick (Lab)]

My Lords, I think it is fair to say that, had we not been in the EU when devolution occurred, we would most certainly have moved towards a more federal arrangement in this country. The fact that our regulations were shared across the UK, even in devolved areas, covered the need for a federal arrangement where the different Assemblies and Parliaments could come together. Now that we will be out of the EU, there is a fair degree of urgency to address this. How are we going to devise regulations in the future? If we start that process by not including the Sewel convention, we start from a point where levels of disagreement are such that it will be hard to have that debate in a calm, careful way. We should accept this amendment, but also go on to explore the ways in which, where devolved matters intercept, we will work together in future across territorial areas. I hope that we can accept this amendment.

Brexit: Movement of Goods between Northern Ireland and Great Britain

Lord Bruce of Bennachie Excerpts

Thursday 24th October 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan]

First, the noble Baroness is wrong: there will be no tariffs on goods from Northern Ireland to the UK. We have agreed these arrangements because of the unique situation of Northern Ireland. As we were told extensively when the original customs proposals were produced that this would result in checks in Northern Ireland, we compromised for the sake of getting a good agreement, which we were constantly urged to do. We have recognised the unique situation of Northern Ireland: we have provided a consent mechanism for Northern Ireland’s elected representatives to decide whether they wish to take part in these arrangements. Importantly, it ensures that there are no checks in Northern Ireland between Northern Ireland and the Irish Republic, and that there are no borders. It is important to bear in mind that there are already checks because of the single epidemiological unit of Ireland—for example, on live animals going between Great Britain and Northern Ireland. We are proposing a small number of administrative checks and we will work with the European Union to ensure that these are as minimal as possible, if they are needed at all.

[Lord Bruce of Bennachie (LD)]

Will the Minister acknowledge that before this deal there was—and if this deal is accepted there will not be—friction-free movement between Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK? In reality, businesses across the whole of Ireland will have to fill in tens of millions of forms to carry out the business they can do today without any such bureaucracy. This is hardly a free trade agreement of any validity. Is it not also a denial of the Government’s claim that the referendum was a UK-wide referendum that demanded a UK-wide solution? How dare a party that calls itself the Conservative and Unionist Party claim that it is defending the union when what it is actually doing is driving a coach and horses through it.

[Lord Callanan]

I do not agree with the noble Lord: Northern Ireland is leaving the EU with the rest of the United Kingdom. It was a UK-wide referendum. There will be no forms to fill in. We think that all these checks, if they are required at all, can be done electronically. However, as I said, a joint committee has been established in the withdrawal agreement. We will work with the European Union through the implementation period to ensure that these interventions are as minimal as possible.

European Union (Withdrawal) Bill

Lord Bruce of Bennachie Excerpts

Report: 1st sitting: House of Lords
Wednesday 18th April 2018 Lords Chamber

[The Earl of Sandwich (CB)]

My Lords, in proposing Amendment 6, I would like to remind noble Lords that in Committee the noble Lord, Lord Wallace of Saltaire, moved an important amendment, Amendment 12, on foreign policy and security. International development was mentioned only in passing, so I wish to make up for that today and I am grateful for the support of colleagues who have experience of development. I intervened only briefly in Committee and I promise not to take up more than a few moments of valuable time on Report.

International aid used to be an also-ran subject in Parliament, but the Blair Government and the Cameron-Clegg coalition changed all of that, although some are still restless about the 0.7% target. Foreign policy, security, trade and aid are all closely joined up these days and the aid programme now involves several government departments.

I believe that this country has enjoyed a long and beneficial period of EU membership, during which we have developed close ties with several European aid agencies, the most prominent of which are the European Development Fund, ECHO, the humanitarian fund, and the Commission’s own aid instrument. We have been paying considerable amounts into these funds and we have worked alongside them in our own aid programmes around the world. DfID has a significant EU department which manages these relationships over here, in Europe and in the many countries that benefit. As you would expect, these aid programmes are monitored by committees of both Houses such as our own EU Committee, which I hope we shall retain, as well as by watchdogs like the National Audit Office and the Independent Commission on Aid Impact. How are we going to continue to be associated with these EU programmes after Brexit?

I know that during the passage of the Bill there have been continuous hopes of association with all kinds of things European, but the Government are full of empty reassurances. That is why we have to keep reminding Ministers that they are important, even in a withdrawal Bill. In the words of the amendment, we need,

“continued coordination of international aid and development policy”.

I am sorry for those Peers with distinguished foreign policy backgrounds who spoke on Amendment 12 because they got next to nothing back from the Front Bench except honeyed words. For instance, my old friend the noble Viscount, Lord Hailsham, wanted to ensure that the UK is a full participant in the formulation of foreign and security policies, while others like my noble friend Lord Hannay warned that it might already be too late for the Government to set up any alternative framework for our future foreign and security policy. Why should we wait so long? The main excuse offered is that we would be showing our cards too early. Do we have to wait for the very final deal or beyond that to transition, or even no deal? How can Monsieur Barnier be expected to negotiate when there is nothing but air to negotiate with, and why should our sovereign Parliament have to wait in the meantime?

If you read the Lancaster House speech made in January 2017 or the partnership paper from last September Foreign Policy, Defence and Development, you might believe that the Prime Minister was already satisfied with our relationship with the EU and our present association with many EU institutions—and perhaps she is. From the vote we have just had, I believe that so are the majority of us here in Parliament. Yet she still delays, and despite all the talk of partnership, what you do not get is any sense that this fine association is going to continue. Instead, you get woolly phrases such as:

“The UK would like to offer a future relationship that is deeper than any current third country partnership”.


I would like to think that the Commission is already making contingency plans for some kind of association agreement between the UK and the EU development agencies. However, the Minister may well say that it has enough trouble already in rethinking its own aid programmes, which is true. However, sitting at the edge of a table is not as good as sitting at the table, especially after you have somewhat ostentatiously kicked back the chair and given up your place.

Moreover, what about the people engaged on the ground—the aid workers and managers of aid programmes; what can they look forward to? Many aid agencies in this country which are receiving grants from various EU budgets are unable to plan ahead. What is being done to help them through this transition, because they cannot expect DflD to pick up the tab at short notice?

Another area is development education, a subject about which we have already heard a lot during the course of the Bill. A wide variety of NGOs are drawing on EU central funding to interpret development issues abroad through events and exhibitions about Africa and subjects in Asia. The Bond organisation has done a lot of work on future collaboration of civil society organisations in the EU which may help Her Majesty’s Government with their plans.

In conclusion, as I said at Second Reading, EU member states form the world’s largest source of development funding and, taken together, they make a huge contribution to poverty reduction and help to defeat epidemics. They are currently interlocked through the various aid organisations and, despite the UK’s prominent position in the EU during these two years of pre-Brexit meandering, we still have no idea how the structures can be dismantled and replaced. I beg to move.

[Lord Bruce of Bennachie (LD)]

My Lords, I rise briefly to support the noble Earl, Lord Sandwich, and I was happy to add my name to the amendment. I want just to reinforce the point that currently the UK delivers £1.5 billion a year of its aid through EU institutions, and indeed 15% of the European Development Fund comes from the UK, so it is in the interests both of the UK and the EU that we should continue to co-operate.

Much more practically, in the two multilateral aid reviews that have been carried out by the Department for International Development, the delivery of aid by EU agencies has been described as “Very Good” in terms of the “Match with UK development objectives” and operational performance, so it does deliver for us. It is also the case that it is entirely consistent with the EU for non-member states to contribute to European development funding because both Norway and Switzerland contribute to the European Development Fund.

The other issue that is causing concern if there is no continuing engagement is the Caribbean and Pacific regions, whose relationship with the EU they value very much, but which has been strongly championed by the UK as a member. If we continue to participate, they will be reassured by knowing that our voice will have some influence on ensuring that their interests are safeguarded.

A final point made by the noble Earl, Lord Sandwich, was that many of our NGOs—our development contractors and specialists—are involved in helping to deliver EU programmes. It would be very much in their interests, as well as those of the EU, if they were able to continue to be part of a European objective which—it is important that the House understands this—delivers aid and development in parts of the world that the UK does not reach because it does not have an operational presence where the EU does. I support the amendment; it is entirely consistent with our record in the past and would be a very positive development for the future.

[Lord Crisp (CB)]

My Lords, I added my name to the amendment because it is very much in the interests of both donor countries and the countries that receive that aid. I agree with the points made by the noble Lord, Lord Bruce, as well as those made earlier by my noble friend Lord Sandwich in moving the amendment —in particular, his last and hugely important point about co-ordination and continued partnership, building on what we have already got.

I will not labour those points at all. I want to make just one additional and very practical point. For years, recipient countries have received aid from different countries with different monitoring arrangements and different conditions—or, if you like, with different strings attached. This is costly; indeed, it is wasteful because it puts an unnecessary burden on those countries. The international community has tried over many years, with some success, to align or harmonise these arrangements so as to reduce this wasteful burden and, by doing so, make sure that it gets the best value possible from its donations.

Of course, there are also advantages in countries aligning their priorities to have as big an impact as possible, which is helped enormously by the global priorities set out in the sustainable development goals. However, having made those points about alignment, this amendment does not constrain the UK in its future decision-making in any way. It merely seeks to ensure that, wherever possible—I stress that—there is alignment between its donations and those of our neighbours and that they can be made as efficiently as possible. The UK can, of course, choose to diverge from its neighbours, but this amendment would merely require it to do so in full knowledge of what it is doing.

Brexit: Devolved Administrations

Lord Bruce of Bennachie Excerpts

Tuesday 24th October 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

The noble and learned Lord, as ever, makes an important contribution on these matters. We are listening to discussions about the drafting of the European Union (Withdrawal) Bill arising out of amendments tabled in another place. It is the intention of this Bill that no decisions currently taken by the devolved Administrations will be removed from them. Each and every part of the noble and learned Lord’s intervention is key to our decision to draft the Bill as it currently stands.

[Lord Bruce of Bennachie (LD)]

My Lords, is the Minister aware that the LSE has produced figures which show that the Scottish economy could lose £30 billion as the result of Brexit? My own city of Aberdeen could lose 7% of its economy over the next five years. Will the Government now acknowledge that leaving the single market and the customs union cannot be a deal for the United Kingdom, but would betray the United Kingdom and put it at risk?

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

This Government will never betray the United Kingdom, and we will not betray the fact that, when the referendum was held, over a million more people in the United Kingdom voted to leave than to remain. We will continue to negotiate for a deal that is best for the whole United Kingdom. That is why, in her Florence speech, the Prime Minister set out the importance of making further progress, of having an implementation period and of ensuring that there is certainty as we move to the next phase of being able to make our own decisions in our own way.

European Union (Notification of Withdrawal) Bill

Lord Bruce of Bennachie Excerpts

Committee: 2nd sitting (Hansard): House of Lords
Wednesday 1st March 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bruce of Bennachie (LD)]

My Lords, I speak to the amendment in my name and that of my noble and learned friend Lord Wallace of Tankerness. It has the simple objective of ensuring that the Government give high priority to making sure that our fishing industry gets the best possible deal and is not traded away on the basis of some other priorities for the Government. The important thing about the fishing industry is not only its location, obviously, but also the communities that it affects. Its value is about £750 million, but we import about 50% more fish than we produce and export—we are far from being self-sufficient in our fish consumption.

We have to be realistic and say that a lot of our fishing communities voted to leave in the hope that they would get a better deal, and certainly not a worse deal, than they currently have. The point that I would make, coming as I do from Aberdeenshire, is that fishing may not be a large part of the national economy but it is an important part of many communities. In a county such as Aberdeenshire, with the ports of Aberdeen, Peterhead and Fraserburgh, as well as the small ports along the Moray Firth, the future of the industry is a great local concern, as the industry has a significant impact on its economy, its future and its expectations.

We recognise that before we joined the Common Market we were in an era of 12-mile limits and had not moved to adopting the 200-mile economic zones, which have effectively been jointly negotiated and policed by the European Union. It is a major undertaking for the UK, post Brexit, to be able to define its area for fishing and to secure the right balance of protection and conservation to ensure sustainability. Indeed, I am sure that Ministers will still have to negotiate with the UK fishing industry to ensure that the deal that emerges balances those interests.

Given the importance of the industry from Shetland to the Isles of Scilly, communities there and in places in between are highly dependent on it. On that basis, we think that it is also important that any agreement secures the consent of the Welsh Assembly, the Northern Ireland Assembly and the Scottish Parliament, because the impact on those areas is disproportionately large, although that does not in any way mean that this is not of significant importance to the fishing ports of England too—it absolutely is.

I seek an assurance from the Minister that he recognises that the fishing industry has a clear and legitimate interest. The industry has a real expectation that the Government will secure a deal for the future that enables it to thrive and survive and that they will not trade away any existing rights in a way that diminishes the impact of the industry, but if possible get a better opportunity for it across the board.

[Lord Balfe (Con)]

My Lords—