Scammers

Lord Browne of Ladyton Excerpts

Tuesday 15th November 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Sharpe of Epsom (Con)]

I absolutely agree. I also point out that banks are heavily involved with the awareness campaigns. Many noble Lords will no doubt have seen a recent advert put out by Santander to stop scammers which features Ant and Dec, when they are not busy in the jungle. Also, the Scams Prevention and Support Programme, delivered by Age UK and funded by Lloyds Bank, is aimed at older people and helps them to spot and understand scams, and to take action to protect themselves from becoming a scam victim. Of course, I also agree that it is emotionally devastating to be a victim of these crimes.

[Lord Browne of Ladyton (Lab)]

My Lords, today the National Audit Office published a report on fraud, which says in terms that the Government do not have the data they need to understand the full scale of the problem and are unable accurately to measure the impact of their own policies on this growing area of crime, which is 41% of crime in this country. A spokesperson for the Government said, as we can expect:

“This government is absolutely committed to cracking down on fraud and economic crime”


and that the NAO’s recommendations will be “reflected” in the “upcoming fraud strategy”. What on earth use is a fraud strategy based on data that is now six years old?

[Lord Sharpe of Epsom (Con)]

My Lords, the noble Lord is quite right: the Home Office is leading work on a fraud strategy. The Prime Minister referred to it in the other place as recently as 2 November. We intend to publish on that shortly. It will consider all the possible tools required to go after fraudsters and to protect those who are most vulnerable. The strategy’s other aims will be to stop and block frauds being carried out, and to improve law enforcement. Considerable money is being invested in improving data collection, as well as law enforcement capability.

National Security

Lord Browne of Ladyton Excerpts

Wednesday 2nd November 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Sharpe of Epsom (Con)]

I thank the right reverend Prelate for that suggestion; I will read that speech, which to date I have not. He invites me to stray into areas where I would prefer not to go. There are differences of opinion when it comes to these laws; I will leave it there.

[Lord Browne of Ladyton (Lab)]

My Lords, the daily and repeated Russian missile attacks on Ukraine’s critical national infrastructure are evidence of the importance of this to our national security. Is the Minister aware of the two week-old report of the Joint Committee on the National Security Strategy about critical national infrastructure, which is scathing about the Government’s ability to protect it? It specifically identifies a lack of leadership, an absence of co-ordination among government departments and the disbanding of the Civil Contingencies Secretariat. In short, it calls on the Prime Minister to

“get a much better grip on … national security”.

When will we see the long-awaited national resilience strategy?

[Lord Sharpe of Epsom (Con)]

My Lords, I cannot answer that specifically. I have seen that report and have read a variety of newspaper reports with mounting alarm, as I am sure the noble Lord has. I think the task force will address a good deal of the noble Lord’s concerns, and I look forward to hearing what it has to say.

Police: Vetting, Misconduct and Misogyny

Lord Browne of Ladyton Excerpts

Wednesday 2nd November 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Sharpe of Epsom (Con)]

Not as far as I am aware, but I defer to the noble Lord’s specialist knowledge on this subject and I will take the question back to the Home Office.

[Lord Browne of Ladyton (Lab)]

My Lords, in his first Prime Minister’s Questions last week, Rishi Sunak chose to close the session by bragging and baiting the leader of the Opposition—to braying from the Tory Benches—saying that there are 15,000 new police officers on our streets. When he did so, how much did he know about the scale and nature of this—that hundreds, perhaps thousands of those people may have passed through flawed vetting processes?

[Lord Sharpe of Epsom (Con)]

I have no idea what the Prime Minister knew or did not know.

Police and Crime Commissioners: Budget

Lord Browne of Ladyton Excerpts

Monday 28th March 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con)]

My noble friend is absolutely right: local circumstances will dictate different needs in different places. He is absolutely correct to say that cyber and other types of crime—county lines, for example—may necessitate different solutions in different areas.

[Lord Browne of Ladyton (Lab)]

My Lords, following that specific question and the implication that somehow this money was being spent on cybercrime, the principal cybercrime in this country is fraud. Some 42% of reported crime is fraud—despite the fact that the Government regularly drop off this figure when they talk about crime. Some 1% of police resources are used in policing fraud—so it clearly cannot be the case that these resources are being used for other policing purposes; they must be being used for something else.

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con)]

I return to the point made by my noble friend: it is down to local elected PCCs to decide. Also, cyber is not just about fraud; it can be about all sorts of things, such as disruption et cetera. There are other bodies that deal with fraud as well, but, frankly, we deal with fraud and other types of crime across several agencies.

Enforcement of Lockdown Regulations

Lord Browne of Ladyton Excerpts

Tuesday 18th January 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con)]

I think I answered the noble Lord’s question. I was not there; I was not witness to any events that may or may not have happened. As the noble Lord will know—and yes, I do speak for the Government—Sue Gray is doing her review, and the outcome of that will be known in due course.

[Lord Browne of Ladyton (Lab)]

My Lords, on this very point, the question did not require the Minister to have been present to be able to answer it. The question that troubles some people is that the Metropolitan Police has already publicly said that it will not investigate anything but will wait to hear what Sue Gray says and that it is in contact with Sue Gray. The Metropolitan Police has police officers in Downing Street, both inside the building and outside. Surely it is legitimate to ask: are statements being taken from those officers by Sue Gray, and is the Metropolitan Police offering them to Sue Gray’s investigation, seeing as it is not investigating this itself?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con)]

The noble Lord asks a perfectly legitimate question. To that I would say that the police are operationally independent of government, but the review and the investigation will take their course.

Black Dog Crisis Management Company

Lord Browne of Ladyton Excerpts

Monday 11th October 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con)]

My Lords, I understand that all direct awards are listed in the contracts finder area of GOV.UK. On skills, as I said, this was a particularly novel incident and that is why the STA, which is very restricted in its use, was used in this case.

[Lord Browne of Ladyton (Lab)]

My Lords, my noble friend Lady Chakrabarti is right. The shocking daily revelations of the number of accusations of social misconduct against police officers, including rape, and the finding of the Met’s institutional obstruction of investigations into Daniel Morgan’s murder demand that any inquiry into the Sarah Everard murder should be a statutory inquiry.

On the original question, what was the complexity? The Home Office has 40,000 civil servants—half the size of the Army. What was it that compelled it to engage the services of a crisis management firm to deliver “debriefing exercises” for staff following incidents? Why did it have to call in the military to collect data on Afghan refugees living in hotels when it lost control of their numbers?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con)]

I fully support my right honourable friend the Home Secretary in announcing that the inquiry would take place. The details of that will be announced in due course. Among the complexities was the number of agencies involved. Of course, things such as the potential for danger to life are critical in these situations—as, indeed, is learning the lessons of such novel incidents.

Cyberattacks: EU Committee Report

Lord Browne of Ladyton Excerpts

Thursday 14th October 2010 Lords Chamber

[Lord Browne of Ladyton]

My Lords, it is a great pleasure to follow the noble Baroness in contributing to this debate. I will not follow the threads that she pulled from it because this is my maiden speech and I am constrained to be, what some might say, uncharacteristically brief. I commend her on her contribution to the debate and the issues that she picked from this helpful report—and more broadly. I, too, await the responses of the Minister to the points that she raises.

As I rise to make my maiden speech, one view is that it is a contribution to the House of Lords that I have waited 14 years to make. In 1996, I was part of the legal team that injuncted—or interdicted, as we say in Scotland—the BBC from broadcasting an interview with the then Prime Minister John Major in the context of the local government elections in Scotland. We were told after the appeal in Scotland that the BBC would take us all the way, and it was granted permission to appeal to the House of Lords. I had my foot almost on the first step of the stairs to the London shuttle when the BBC abandoned its appeal. So while it is characteristic for many maiden speakers in this House to say that they never expected to speak in the House of Lords, I suppose that in my case it could be said that my expectations have waited 14 years to be fulfilled properly.

In those 14 years, I found myself another job as I waited. It was a significant honour and a pleasure for 13 of those years to serve my constituents of Kilmarnock and Loudon in the other place. They are now represented by Cathy Jamieson, who is already an experienced Member of the Scottish Parliament, and indeed was a Minister in the Scottish Executive. She is an excellent Member of Parliament, and that is not just my view but is the view of her constituents who have granted her an even more impressive majority than the healthy majority that I enjoyed during the time that I was there.

It is a particular pleasure to speak in the debate following my noble friend Lord Reid—a habit that I have developed over the years. I shall come to that in a moment. We both learnt our politics in the robust environment of the Labour Party in the west of Scotland, and I can tell noble Lords that we have had a lot of similar experiences, but I know that his collection of anecdotes—or at least the way he tells them—are much more entertaining and certainly more exciting than mine ever were.

After re-election in 2001, my ministerial career was largely spent following my noble friend. I will always be grateful to him for the experience of working with him in the Northern Ireland Office. In many ways, that was the happiest time of my varied ministerial career and I am proud to say that I still have many friends there. That is perhaps not surprising, as my mother—an inspirational 95 year-old—hails from Warrenpoint in the stunningly beautiful County Down. My time in Northern Ireland encouraged my interest in conflict resolution; and that was reinforced by later experiences of conflicts. It is my intention to use the opportunities that my membership of your Lordships’ House generates to work in that area, among others.

My services as a Minister in the Department for Work and Pensions, the Home Office, the Treasury and the Scotland Office have all individually left their marks on me, but it was my time as the Secretary of State for Defence for two years, between 2006 and 2008, that left the greatest impression. Over my ministerial career, I have developed a significant admiration for the public service of our Civil Service. It has become fashionable to talk of “bloated public service” and of waste, but that is not my experience. In my view, we have the best civil service in the world, which is part of the construct of this land that makes us all proud to be British.

However, if my admiration for the Civil Service is substantial—and it is—my admiration for our military knows no bounds, after my experiences. The courageous selflessness of those who put their lives and health at risk in order that we can sleep safe in our beds at night deserves a form of thanks for which the English language has recently proved to be woefully inadequate. The sadness and grief that I felt when hearing the news that my friend Lieutenant-Colonel Rupert Thorneloe, the commanding officer of 1st Battalion Welsh Guards, had been killed in action in Afghanistan, was but a fraction of that suffered by his wife Sally, his precious daughters and his parents and family. The sacrifices that the families of our service men and women make in supporting them are equally worthy of our boundless gratitude.

My time as Secretary of State for Defence has left me with the conviction that disarmament is as important to our security as investment in the capability of arms. Many senior political leaders across the whole world are currently coming to the conclusion that the existence of nuclear weapons, the security challenges that they pose and the risk of their proliferation are among the greatest threats that this world faces. I agree with them. With the support of a significant number of senior Members of your Lordships' House and of the other place, I intend to devote myself to the advancement of multilateral nuclear disarmament, improvement of the non-proliferation regime and improved nuclear security.

That brings me nicely, through security, to the topic of today's debate. I pay tribute to the noble Lord, Lord Jopling, and his committee for their deliberations and for the important and extremely valuable report that they have presented to us. As we have already heard, in recent days we have seen both an attack—we know not from where—on the computer systems running the Iranian nuclear programme and a warning from the director of GCHQ on the need to enhance the UK’s cyberwarfare capability, both offensive and defensive. The publication of the Government's strategic defence and security review is imminent. As a review, it promises to go much wider than a traditional defence review in assessing the full range of security challenges facing our country and in providing a joined-up response to those challenges. I hope that it achieves what it sets out to achieve, but the public debate currently surrounding it is has not been encouraging. Almost all of the attention, inside and outside government, appears to have focused on the overall size of the defence budget and on which big-ticket defence equipment may have to be scrapped to satisfy the Treasury. This is understandable, given the current economic and financial picture, but it does not amount to strategic thinking. I hope, and wait to be reassured, that the review is conducting that strategic thinking and that the leaks we have witnessed over months have not included it.

As I know the Minister also appreciates, a review of this kind, carried out at this point in our history, needs to focus on more than conventional defence equipment. The nature and character of conflict, and the nature and character of weaponry, is changing. This is not just about unconventional enemies using low technology weapons like those we face on occasion in Afghanistan, but also about high technology weapons being used by potential adversaries to disrupt our society in future. We may be members of NATO, the most powerful conventional military alliance on earth, but we are on occasion in danger of allowing this to generate a comforting misapprehension; namely, that our adversaries will in future engage us in conflicts that play to our strengths, not in unconventional conflicts that play to theirs. This is dangerous thinking.

When the headlines on the SDSR have faded, and the short-term budget battles are over, sober judges will ask not only what we cut but what we invested in. The real test will be whether we have invested to meet the challenges of tomorrow rather than those of yesterday.

As imminent as the publication of the defence review is that of NATO's strategic concept. That presents an opportunity to address the issue of NATO-EU co-operation. I look forward to the contribution from the Minister in the hope that she will give us some indication that the Government will regard as a priority the issue of our contribution not just to the conclusion of the review of NATO's strategic concept, but to the important communiqué that will follow it and to the summit meeting that will take place in Lisbon.

My final point may arise from my professional prejudice, but is none the less valid. One major issue that needs to be addressed in the cyberdomain is the role of the law, both domestic and international. Domestically, RIPA was drafted before the internet developed into what it is today. Our law needs regular review to ensure that it keeps up with the rapid rate of change that we are witnessing. In particular, we must find ways of making detection and prosecution easier. Internationally, in the absence of sufficient treaty law or UN statutes dealing explicitly with cyber actions, urgently we need to define the role that international law should play in covering either offensive or defensive cyber actions. I should be grateful if the Minister, who speaks for the Government and who we all know has expertise in this field, will reassure your Lordships' House that action in these fields is contemplated and will give some indication of the steps that we can expect to see in this regard.

In closing, I express my gratitude for the warmth of the welcome that I have received in your Lordships' House. In particular, I thank the staff of the House who, with unfailing courtesy and genuine kindness, have eased my transition in a way that has made me feel as welcome here as anywhere I have ever been in my life. On the day of my introduction, the courtesy and kindness that were shown to my family and guests left them with the most positive impression that will remain with them for the rest of their lives. I trust that, with these words, I have observed the conventions of the House. I respect them immensely and I look forward to engaging in debate across a wide range of subjects, almost certainly learning more than I will ever be able to contribute.