Northern Ireland (Ministers, Elections and Petitions of Concern) Bill

Debate between Lord Browne of Belmont and Lord Dodds of Duncairn

Report stage
Wednesday 19th January 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Browne of Belmont (DUP)]

My Lords, I oppose Amendments 1 and 2. The Bill before us is simply designed to legislate for measures agreed under the New Decade, New Approach deal, not to undo previous commitments entered into at St Andrews. To try to go back in time would help only to undermine the fragile peace that presently exists in Northern Ireland.

As a unionist, I believe that the constitutional framework of our union should be strengthened, especially now, when the smooth functioning of the three devolved settlements is increasingly under attack. In specific circumstances, and during uncertain times, with the backdrop of an Irish sea border and threats to political stability in Northern Ireland, it would be foolish to return to what was clearly a failed system, used to appoint the First Minister and Deputy First Minister. Indeed, there was a lot of instability there. I find it difficult to understand the explanations from those noble Lords supporting the amendment. Therefore, I am afraid that I am forced to conclude that their support is based on petty political manoeuvring, which is clearly inappropriate at a time of increasing societal division and instability in Northern Ireland.

[Lord Dodds of Duncairn (DUP)]

My Lords, I was not intending to speak on this group of amendments, but I have been provoked into it by some of the things that have been said, not least by some of the revising of history that we have heard. I can fully understand why noble Lords, on listening to this debate, would have some sympathy with some of the views that have been expressed by the noble Baroness, Lady Ritchie, on her amendment. However, it is important to remember that, in the context of the Northern Ireland political scene, it has been a general principle—up to now, anyway—that those matters that are devolved remain devolved for the parties in Northern Ireland to agree, and Westminster should be very slow not to respect that devolved settlement. That should apply, of course, across all the devolved nations and regions, but particularly in Northern Ireland, given the long and tortuous negotiations that took place in St Andrews and in the run-up to the Belfast agreement. Whatever we may think of a particular idea or amendment—whether we think that it is a good idea that sounds plausible—it is really for the host politicians in Northern Ireland to decide whether or not it should fly.

The principle of sufficient consensus was at the heart of the negotiations that took place in the run-up to the Belfast agreement and the St Andrews agreement. The noble Lord, Lord Hain, who has spoken, was a central player in the St Andrews negotiations as Secretary of State. Indeed, I remember well that he was even kind enough to offer a lift on a rather small plane to the late Dr Paisley and Martin McGuinness and a number of us on the way back from it, or we could not have got back in time to Belfast to see the thing through. It is important, therefore, to respect the views of the parties in Northern Ireland.

I want to sound a note of caution: people talk of this being a great idea and say that we should return to it. These are matters that were in the remit of the New Decade, New Approach negotiations; they took place over a considerably long period of time—far too long, in the view of many of us. But there was no agreement on either of these two amendments. Therefore, to suggest that either now or in the near future this Parliament should suddenly impose its own ideas without having that agreement and sufficient consensus, by which we mean a majority of unionist and nationalist representatives and an overall majority of everybody. Parliament has the right to do that, but I think it would be very unwise. It would be a grave mistake for Ministers to go away with the impression that this is just a minor matter, because it breaches a fundamental principle that has been at the heart of the political process in Northern Ireland.