Road Vehicles (Powers to Stop) Regulations 2011

Debate between Lord Bradshaw and Viscount Simon

Wednesday 16th March 2011 Grand Committee

[Lord Bradshaw]

My Lords, I have some experience of what is proposed in the regulations because for six years I worked in Northern Ireland, where VOSA’s equivalent had to use stopping officers; if policemen had been used, they would have become targets for terrorists. What is proposed in these regulations worked in Northern Ireland and I believe that it is sensible to extend the provisions here. Indeed, I have been surprised that it has taken successive Governments so long to wake up to this.

If, like me, you have experience of roadside checks, you will know that some of them are extremely expensive to mount. They are not just a matter of one man pulling a lorry off the road. Often 10 agencies are involved in checks, which might cover drugs, ill treatment of animals, customs fraud or immigration fraud—a whole range of things is covered by these checks. They are very expensive to organise and at the moment, if a check is mounted and the policeman is called away to other duties or does not show up, the whole process is frustrated because nobody can stop a lorry or a coach to send it to the inspection centre. I very much welcome these regulations and can only wish them well. I think that the noble Lord, Lord Shutt, made it clear in his remarks that it would be possible for VOSA officers to stop other vehicles.

I suggest that traffic censuses might also be considered. They do not need a policeman; they just need somebody with a yellow jacket on to organise the thing. I presume that even when the police have stopping officers there is an occasional person who offends and does not stop, but there are plenty of means of identifying those people and bringing them to justice. I fully support the proposed changes.

[Viscount Simon]

My Lords, in these times of policing budgets, I wonder whether chief constables will be persuaded to let VOSA work completely independently of roads policing officers and rely on it to make routine checks on vehicles, thereby releasing their officers from such requirements. I acknowledge the fact that the regulations refer only to commercial vehicles, but could they be extended to all vehicles in time? I do not know. Will this be used by chief officers to obtain large savings being targeted at policing?

It is well known that some commercial vehicles are used for criminal activities. If VOSA is the only body inspecting such vehicles to examine their roadworthiness and the police are not there, criminals will get away with all kinds of things. A trained police officer can examine the vehicles and their drivers in more detail while there are still road policing officers qualified so to do, but their expertise may well be hit if chief officers rely on VOSA and VOSA alone. What will happen if a VOSA stopping officer comes across a driver who is obviously drunk or wanted for a criminal offence?

I wonder, also, how VOSA stopping officers will be trained in appropriate driving and related techniques. Will they be trained by the police? Even with such advanced training, am I correct in assuming that, other than using their powers to stop a commercial vehicle, they will comply with the law and that they will not be able to use exemptions in relation to exceeding speed limits or other matters enforced by police officers? I assume that they will not be permitted to have blue lights. What will be their method of stopping a vehicle?

Does VOSA have a budget within the spending review to meet the expectations of providing, training and equipping the stopping officers to provide the required services every day of the year and at all hours? I hope so, because there are already problems with VOSA setting targets and, when those are met, simply stopping the work that it does. That could result in VOSA weighing a number of vehicles and then not weighing any others for the rest of the month because that target had been met. Currently, VOSA officers are not there at night or weekends unless on a special operation. That must not be a reason for the police to remove resources and to leave it to VOSA, as VOSA does not have the continuous responsibility throughout every day of the year that the police have.

Relying on VOSA to take over some of the roads policing operations—I declare that I am an honorary member of the Police Federation of England and Wales roads policing central committee—is fraught with problems. It used to be so simple: a police officer only. But now it seems that it could be anyone—a Highways Agency traffic officer, VOSA, who next? I do not expect the Minister to reply to my concerns today, but I would be grateful if he would write to me in due course and I hope that he will forgive me for raising these matters, some of which are not strictly related to this legislation.