Anti-terrorism: Hate Speech

Debate between Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth and Lord Pearson of Rannoch

Wednesday 27th June 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether, in pursuit of their anti-terrorism strategy, they will require preaching in mosques and teaching in madrassas in England and Wales to be monitored for hate speech against non-Muslims.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government and Wales Office (Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth) (Con)]

My Lords, it is just a year since the Finsbury Park terror attack on the mosque, and I am reminded how the Muslim community acted then—with dignity, determination and compassion—as no doubt the noble Lord is also so reminded. Our Government are clear on our strong objective to tackle hate crime. Free speech and freedom of belief are fundamental principles of our society. The Government have no plans to require monitoring of preaching in mosques or in any other faith institution.

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch (UKIP)]

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord for that reply, but I fear that it underestimates the problem because the Government must know that hatred of us kuffar is central to radical Islam, that it is being taught in our mosques and madrassas, and that their own Behavioural Insights Team has said that their present policies are failing. Should not the Government get real by requiring all such teaching to be in English, as soon as possible, and by insisting on far greater collaboration from our peaceful Muslim friends in the meantime? After all, they know what is going on. And will the Government please stop using the word “Islamophobia”, because it is surely reasonable and not at all phobic to fear the world’s most violent ideology, from which indeed most hate speech now comes?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, first, the Government are committed to tackling Islamophobia. Secondly, perhaps I could tell the noble Lord of two recent visits I have made in relation to faith institutions. One was to a mosque in Manchester: an excellent mosque in Gorton, where Jews and Christians were welcomed for a great iftar. It was a true expression of British Muslim activity. Similarly, the previous day I visited the Manchester Islamic High School for Girls, where the opening words from the headmistress were on how proud she was to be British—but she was also proud to be Muslim.

Immigration: Housing

Debate between Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth and Lord Pearson of Rannoch

Thursday 19th January 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, the noble Baroness brings up a valuable point. Let us be clear: migration has contributed massively to the quality and diversity of life in this country. It is certainly not true to say that immigration has led to a drain on our resources.

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch (UKIP)]

My Lords, do the Government believe our National Health Service and our social care arrangements can survive—

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch]

My Lords, I have never denied that we need migrants; it is just that we do not want to go on letting in Bulgarian and Romanian gangsters at their will. Do the Government believe our NHS and social care can survive this sort of increase with their present funding arrangements, or do we have to consider something more radical for the longer term?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, if I may try to address the joint question asked by the noble Lords, Lord Pearson and Lord Foulkes, it is certainly the case that across broad sections of public life, certainly including the NHS, we are heavily dependent on people from the immigrant communities. There is no doubt about that. Net migration will probably fall as a result of Brexit, but it will be some time before that happens. Still, we face all sorts of challenges in seeking to address that.

Renewable Energy

Debate between Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth and Lord Pearson of Rannoch

Wednesday 24th June 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, it is not merely a question of cost. If it were the case that renewables were the cheapest form of electricity, we would not face the same challenge on climate change that we do. As I indicated, it is true that the cost of renewables is coming down. Meanwhile, it is the policy of the Government to focus on energy that is affordable, secure and clean.

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch (UKIP)]

My Lords, will the Government compensate the increasing number of British people forced into fuel poverty by the man-made climate change policy if climate change turns out not to have been man-made at all?

Greece

Debate between Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth and Lord Pearson of Rannoch

Thursday 12th February 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, the specific question of the settlement of the Greek position is clearly a matter for the eurozone, and the United Kingdom is not a member of that group. We remain of the view that our best plan for the economy is to insulate us as far as possible from what is happening within the eurozone. That is why we have the fastest-growing economy in the G7—both the OECD and the IMF project it to be so. It is also why we have the highest level of employment ever, with low inflation and low mortgage rates. That is the way to proceed.

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch (UKIP)]

As the noble Baroness, Lady Anelay, did not answer my question on 3 February in a similar debate, may I put it slightly differently to the noble Lord, and following his answer to the noble Lord, Lord Higgins? Would it not be in the long-term interests of Greece, including her ability eventually to repay her debt, if she were to abandon the euro and adopt a devalued drachma supported by the IMF? If the resultant success of Greece encouraged Portugal and others to follow suit, might that not lead to the collapse of whole unfortunate project of European integration, and would that not be rather a good thing? The question the noble Baroness refused to answer is,

“what is now the point of the European Union and its … euro?”.—[Official Report, 3/2/15; col. 541.]

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, the noble Lord’s crusade is well known but we do not associate ourselves with that in any way at all. I am here to answer not for the long-term interests of Greece but for the long-term interests of the United Kingdom, which are very much about having a settlement of this question within the eurozone.