UK Shared Prosperity Fund

Debate between Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth and Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town

Monday 4th February 2019 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town (Lab)]

My Lords, I beg leave to ask a Question of which I have given private notice.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government and Wales Office (Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth) (Con)]

My Lords, we intend to launch the single prosperity fund consultation shortly, as confirmed by my right honourable friend the Prime Minister in the other place last month.

[Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town]

My Lords, first, is the money that the Prime Minister has been scattering around actually new money, or is it money that would otherwise come out of this shared prosperity fund? Secondly, we might need this fund in seven weeks’ time. How come, therefore, we have yet to have a consultation on it? We do not know whether it will be allocated on the basis of need or prosperity. Can the Minister assure us that, if it is needed in seven weeks’ time, it will be up and ready for the communities it is to serve?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, first, the noble Baroness will be aware that current EU programmes will run their course—in some cases, beyond 2020—so I do not quite recognise the urgency of which she speaks. At the same time as the Prime Minister announced that the consultation would be short, she talked about the importance of tackling inequalities between communities—something I am sure the noble Baroness welcomes, and it may well be something that the right honourable Member the leader of the Opposition chose to discuss with the Prime Minister. I am sure that she would hope so because, clearly, this is very important. We have been doing a lot of work with engagement events around the country. The consultation will start shortly and the decisions will be made in the spending review.

Tenant Fees Bill

Debate between Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth and Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town

Monday 5th November 2018 Grand Committee

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, I am absolutely clear on that. The cap that we are talking about will not be appropriate in that regard. As I say, I have only just become aware of this. It is a significant issue. I am very happy to engage with the noble Baroness, who probably understands these things better than anyone else in your Lordships’ House, and to carry on the discussion with RICS. I hope on that basis she will withdraw her opposition to Clause 21 standing part.

[Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town]

I thank the Minister. I think he has said more than in our meeting. In our meeting, he said that he would look at the double insurance. Today he has gone a little further and stated that this CMP scheme will not have to cover already protected deposits. That is a large part of it, for which the organisations will be grateful. The other part—the level of coverage—is still important. I know that the Government are well aware of this. I know this is very different from the space industry but a similar discussion happened on the Space Industry Bill, recognising that unlimited issues simply cannot be insured, and the Government agreed to move on that.

For the moment, I will not divide the Committee on whether the clause should stand part of the Bill. However, a tiny word of warning: client money protection is mentioned in the Bill, which means that amendments will be in scope when it comes to Report. On that basis, I shall not oppose Clause 21 standing part of the Bill.

European Union (Withdrawal) Bill

Debate between Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth and Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town

Committee: 10th sitting (Hansard): House of Lords
Monday 26th March 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town (Lab)]

My Lords, I rise only to make it clear that the unanimity comes also from the Front Bench. My noble friend Lord Morgan may not be on the Front Bench but on this occasion we are absolutely as one with him.

It would perhaps be helpful if the Minister feeds back what he has heard from the devolved Administrations in his discussions with them on these amendments.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government and Wales Office (Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth) (Con)]

My Lords, I thank noble Lords who participated in the discussion on these amendments. In opening, let me say that I fully understand the absence of my noble friend Lord Blencathra. I am very grateful for his careful consideration of the Bill and that of the Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee, which he chairs.

I apologise to the noble Lord, Lord Tyler. I knew that my noble friend Lord Blencathra was not going to be here and I tried in vain to find out who would be his substitute so that I could have had a word with them earlier. However, I am very happy to meet the noble Lord afterwards at any convenient juncture to discuss this. In fact, I had heard at a previous stage that the substitute would be the noble Lord, Lord Thomas of Gresford, so I encourage him to ignore the several messages he has received from me.

I will respond first to the general points made and then pick up some of the specifics. I want to make it clear that the amendment that the Government have tabled to change how the Bill deals with devolved competence would, as part of that change, remove the Order in Council procedure from Clause 11 and Schedule 3. In the light of this, my noble friend’s amendments would no longer be necessary on that specific point. However, I will address the substantive point that my noble friend Lord Blencathra sought to make, and which has been made by the noble Lord, Lord Tyler, in his stead, on the modification of the devolution statutes—namely, the Scotland Act 1998, the Northern Ireland Act 1998 and the Government of Wales Act 2006—by secondary legislation.

I understand the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Tyler: that the Order in Council powers contained in Clause 11 and Schedule 3 are unsatisfactory substitutes of those contained in Section 30 of the Scotland Act and Section 109 of the Government of Wales Act. I accept that there is merit in my noble friend’s argument that there may be a difference in the function of these powers and that we may wish to consider the need for a different procedure. As I said, I am very happy to discuss that point with my noble friend Lord Blencathra, the noble Lord, Lord Tyler, and others.

I do not agree that it necessarily follows that secondary legislation can never be used to modify devolved competence or the devolution statutes more widely, and that this should only ever be achieved through primary legislation. For example, we used the procedure in 2013 to amend the Scotland Act 1998, and we used an order in 2007 to amend the Government of Wales Act 2006. There are previous examples and, more recently, we saw the Treaty of Lisbon (Changes in Terminology) Order made under Section 2(2) of the European Communities Act. It has sometimes been a convenient way to proceed, by consent of the devolved Administrations.

I am grateful to the noble Baroness, Lady Hayter, for raising the point that she did. We have been discussing these issues with the devolved Administrations and continue to do so in a perfectly constructive way. I have to say that there is no agreement yet, but we are looking at how this should be used going forward.

I will pick up some of the particular points made. I appreciate that the noble Lord, Lord Tyler, was making general points, but, as I say, the specific issue mentioned will not arise in the light of the amendments we have put down. However, I appreciate that it was, as he said, the unanimous view of the Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee. I thank the committee for its third report and constructive and dispassionate work on these issues. I served on that committee for a time and I know it looks at these issues constructively.

Housing: Letting Agents

Debate between Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth and Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town

Tuesday 31st October 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they are planning to introduce legislation to require letting agents to join a registration scheme.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Communities and Local Government and Northern Ireland Office (Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth) (Con)]

My Lords, my right honourable friend the Secretary of State recently announced a package of measures better to protect tenants, including that all letting agents will have to register with an appropriate organisation. This will give landlords and tenants confidence that their agent meets minimum standards. On 18 October we published a call for evidence, seeking views on the regulation of letting and managing agents. The Government will consider the feedback and work with the sector to shape the regulatory framework ahead of introducing legislation.

[Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town (Lab)]

I thank the Minister for that Answer. As he knows, I have already welcomed the commitment that letting agents will in the future be required to register. However, I question the phrase “in the future”. As the Minister knows, the Government agreed in March to introduce client money protection for letting agents. It is now the last day in October. Perhaps he can give some reassurance to the House that both client money protection and this new measure will happen without any delay.

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

I thank the noble Baroness, whom I know has taken an interest in client money protection in particular. She has been very patient; I know that previously I have said “in due course”, “soon” and “very soon”. I can confirm to her that it will be this week. I hope that that pleases her.

Property Agents: Registration

Debate between Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth and Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town

Wednesday 18th October 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

I thank the noble Lord for his customary perception on the importance of looking at this whole area. He is right to say that there are many facets to this—including the social rental issue, which we are looking at separately, and on which there will be a Green Paper. I accept that action in relation to the private rented sector has been done in a somewhat piecemeal way, but it is an important part of the debate. The point has been made, but it is worth restating, that the vast majority of agents and landlords are very good, just as there are very good tenants. To put it in perspective, we are dealing with a minority, but that does not mean that it is not important. I accept what the noble Lord says about the broader issues but, believe me, within the department many considerations are bubbling away. There is an active discussion about what we do next—and there is an awful lot to do—because there is the accumulated problem of a lack of housebuilding and, in all honesty, perhaps a lack of attention on some of the issues in the private and social rented sectors.

[Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town (Lab)]

My Lords, I am pleased to see the noble Baroness, Lady Hanham, in her place. We welcome what the Government are doing now because at the time of the Enterprise and Regulatory Reform Bill an amendment of ours was passed in this House to provide that letting agents should be regulated and be members of a redress scheme. The noble Baroness persuaded Ministers in the other place to accept part of the amendment, the element that provided for a redress scheme. We therefore welcome, somewhat belatedly, that the Government have come to the second part, which is that letting agents should also be licensed in some way.

My questions concern something that we got slightly wrong with the redress scheme. We included managing agents, but we now discover that management companies are not covered. It would be useful to know whether the new proposals now being discussed, which mention managing agents, will also cover property managing companies, particularly on long-lease properties. That is my specific question.

Perhaps I may repeat what I think was said at the end. I know that the Association of Residential Letting Agents and the Association of Residential Managing Agents, the voluntary professional associations, will welcome this move. It is something that they have long asked for, so they will be pleased that those who are not properly qualified and trained, and thus create a bad reputation for the sector, will now have to be included on any register.

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

I thank the noble Baroness, who I know understands the consumer sector and certainly knows this area well. I am grateful for her constructive contribution. I had not spotted that my noble friend Lady Hanham is in her place. It is a great pleasure to see her and I fully acknowledge the massive role that she has played in this matter.

On the point about management companies, the noble Baroness is right. I know something about company law and how companies are often used as a way of circumventing, sometimes intentionally and, in fairness, sometimes accidentally, obligations and occasionally rights that are bestowed. That should not be happening, so I am happy to undertake that we will look at how to ensure that it does not in this area. I also reiterate her point about the sector’s welcome for this development —indeed, the welcome it has already had. I will be getting them on to the noble Lord, Lord Kennedy, to make sure that some of that enthusiasm rubs off. It is important that we move forward together in this area.

Housing: Letting and Managing Agents

Debate between Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth and Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town

Tuesday 28th March 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they will make membership of a client money protection scheme mandatory for letting and managing agents.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Communities and Local Government and Wales Office (Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth) (Con)]

My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness and the noble Lord, Lord Palmer of Childs Hill, for their time and commitment to the client money protection review. I am pleased to announce that the Government intend to make client money protection mandatory in line with the recommendation of the review chaired by the noble Baroness and the noble Lord, Lord Palmer of Childs Hill. This will ensure that every agent is offering the same level of protection, giving tenants and landlords the financial protection that they deserve. The Government will consult on how mandatory client money protection should be implemented and enforced.

[Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town (Lab)]

Well, that has taken the wind out of my sails. Will the Minister accept my thanks? The House will recall that we put into the Housing and Planning Act the reserve power to do this but at that point the Government were not quite convinced. However, as the Minister said, along with the noble Lord, Lord Palmer, we did the report, and the recommendation was published only yesterday. Today’s news is really good for tenants and landlords. It means that if any letting agent goes bust or makes off, the client’s money is safe. I hope the Minister will accept my thanks.

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, I certainly will. That was a typically gracious response from the noble Baroness. It was a very well-reasoned report. Many people had been called to give evidence, so it was very strongly evidence-based. As I say, we will be consulting on implementation and enforcement. I am sure that we can talk about it in the meantime.