Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (Steps and Local Authority Enforcement Powers) (England) (Amendment) Regulations 2021

Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth Excerpts

Monday 17th May 2021 Grand Committee

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth (Con) [V]]

My Lords, it is a great pleasure to follow the noble Baroness, Lady Walmsley, who has made some extremely important points. I thank my noble friend for setting out the purport of these regulations, applaud his work ethic and say that what I shall say, just as the noble Lord, Lord Rooker, said, is no personal reflection on him.

These regulations are part of the road map setting the way out of lockdown, which I support; the approach is correct. I would like some reassurance from my noble friend. As we are out of the eye of the hurricane, it is about time we saw these regulations in advance of them becoming law. We are looking at these some 37 days after they became effective. Frankly, it is just not good enough. It is about time that we started to see these ahead of their becoming law rather than in the rear-view mirror, as has become the case. There may have been a time when that was justifiable, but that time has now passed.

I will take my noble friend up on some of what he said about the Indian variant. I am sure that we will look at this whole issue of why action seemed slow in relation to India when it was not so slow in relation to Pakistan and Bangladesh. It seems strange. Are flights still arriving from India in any way, as I have heard is the case? That might not be true. Could my noble friend also provide some reassurance about our border controls, which seem all too porous? People from countries where there is a known risk mingling with other travellers when they arrive is, frankly, amazing and needs to be stopped forthwith. I cannot understand why that is happening.

My noble friend the Minister spoke about action at the weekend in Bolton, which I certainly welcome. Could he tell us whether similar action has been taken elsewhere, in other communities where there is clearly a threat from this variant, such as Blackburn, Bedford and so on? Could he indicate where that is the case? If he is unable to provide a detailed list—there might be many areas that this applies to—perhaps he could undertake to write and put a copy in the Library.

In short, while the vaccine programme has been highly successful and the Government certainly deserve praise for it, it is not the sum total of what is happening. We have to look at the whole position. The position at our borders is worrying. The Minister himself said that one of the four tests, quite rightly, is whether there are variants of concern. He said that this test was being satisfied. He said later in his speech that new variants are a risk. Frankly, one of those statements has to be right; I suspect it is the latter. I would welcome the Minister taking that point up as well. I have these concerns and look forward to hearing from my noble friend on these points.

Body Mass Index

Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth Excerpts

Thursday 22nd April 2021 Grand Committee

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth (Con) [V]]

My Lords, it is a great pleasure to follow the noble Baroness, Lady Parminter, who spoke cogently on this subject, as she always does. I also congratulate the noble Lord, Lord Addington, on securing this important debate.

The past year has highlighted the importance of health and, specifically, of weight as a determinant of health. Just yesterday, as the noble Lord, Lord McNally, reminded us, the Minister stressed the importance of combating obesity and the historic challenge we have in our country in tackling obesity. Apart from age, it is the single most important factor in tackling Covid-19, for example.

I also welcome the broader message that the Minister has given out on more than one occasion about the importance of preventive healthcare and the accent we should all place on a healthy diet, an exercise regime, such as walking and cycling, and maintaining a healthy weight in so far as one can. I welcome any rebalancing of our approach to health in this way for the future. I think that is important and welcome.

I appreciate, as others do, that BMI is not a perfect guide to a healthy weight—far from it. For example, as we know, muscle is denser than fat, so somebody who has a muscular build will be heavier than somebody who does not, and different people may be susceptible to some diseases and so on. BMI clearly needs to be used alongside other factors—that is crucial.

However, from the perspective of getting the basic message across, there is no doubt in my mind that in tackling obesity the use of BMI is the right call to arms, although I accept we need to be very much alive to the mental challenge of the eating disorders that confront many people. It is undoubtedly the case, as the noble Baroness, Lady Parminter, has just said, that pressure from Covid-19 has increased problems in relation to finding treatment for eating disorders. I would welcome the Minister saying something on this when he sums up.

I also look forward to hearing from the Minister about what specific actions Her Majesty’s Government are looking at around whether to nudge people with incentives, or at least opportunities, to exercise across the country; whether to take action to influence diet, for example, through school meals, hospital meals and meals in other institutions; how we are going to control excess sugar and salt in our diets, possibly through restrictions; and how we are going to control the advertising of unhealthy foods and drinks. These are important issues that we need to confront for the future and one of the lessons that we can clearly learn from the Covid pandemic.

Health Protection (Coronavirus, International Travel) (England) (Amendment) (No. 7) Regulations 2021

Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth Excerpts

Monday 22nd March 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth (Con) [V]]

My Lords, it is a great pleasure to follow the noble Lord, Lord Empey, who has characteristically made some important points. I too congratulate the noble Baroness, Lady Chapman of Darlington, on an excellent maiden speech. I am sure that the whole House looks forward to many more such speeches from her. I also thank the Minister for his considerable efforts on coronavirus and many other health issues over the last year or so. He has been a truly diligent Minister.

We can all take great comfort from the success of the vaccination programme. It is a tribute to the Government, the NHS and the hundreds of thousands of volunteers who have made such a great effort and continue to do so. That said, these regulations cause concern. I share the concerns of many Members who have spoken about the lack of notice, which we should have been able to deal with by now. We have heard routinely how this will be dealt with but we are still seeing these things in the rear-view mirror. Frankly, I cannot see a reason why that should be happening now, and certainly not in relation to these regulations. I do, and will, support them, but there are inconsistencies in the approach. Those coming directly from a red-list country will quarantine in a hotel; those coming indirectly—no matter how short the stopover somewhere else—will not be required to do so. I cannot see the reason for the distinction but I look forward to hearing from the Minister on this.

Meanwhile, we should take great comfort internationally from the scientific response—including, I hope, to the variants—from those who have worked incredibly hard on the vaccine programme and, as I said, from the vaccine rollout in our own country, which has been extraordinarily successful. I would also like to hear from the Minister on the vaccine passport and, indeed, a vaccine certificate to enable people to attend galleries, concerts, football matches and so on. What are the Government doing about that?

Women’s Health Strategy

Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth Excerpts

Tuesday 9th March 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

My Lords, we are of course drafting the national strategy, and we are collecting evidence on what its priorities should be. Undoubtedly, FGM should be in there; it is the most horrific crime, and it still touches far too many girls’ and women’s lives. I would like to see this country rid of it forever as soon as possible, and I encourage the noble Baroness to submit evidence on that point so that we can move clearly on it.

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth (Con) [V]]

My Lords, the Statement rightly identifies the concern of mental health. Given the particular challenges experienced by women in the pandemic, from domestic abuse and disproportionate job losses to increased caring responsibilities, I ask my noble friend to give special focus to this area of research. I also applaud addressing the need for proper representation in the research programme of women from ethnic minorities, including from the Gypsy, Roma and Traveller communities .

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

My Lords, my noble friend touches on two very important points. He is entirely right that mental health has previously been underrepresented in the strategies of our healthcare. I hear loud and clear noble Lords who repeatedly make the case for a greater focus on mental health, and I take that message back to the department as much as I can. I reassure him that mental health will be very much a priority in this area. The two facts—that it is often women who are connected with mental health issues and that it is women who are often overlooked—are probably connected. It is extremely challenging for us to get women from ethnic minorities, for instance those from a Gypsy or Roma background—that is such a good example—fully engaged in our healthcare strategy. If the noble Lord has any suggestions or recommendations for how we can better engage with them, I invite him to submit evidence to the consultation.

Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (All Tiers and Self-Isolation) (England) (Amendment) Regulations 2021

Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth Excerpts

Monday 1st March 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth (Con) [V]]

My Lords, it is a great pleasure to follow the noble Lord, Lord McCrea of Magherafelt and Cookstown, who reminds us quite rightly of the important part that faith and faith communities play in tackling this pandemic. I thank my noble friend for outlining the purpose of these regulations and pay tribute to his incredible hard work and good humour throughout this pandemic and in serving our House.

I support these regulations. I believe that the overriding need to contain the spread of the disease means that, where self-isolation is required, it should be properly enforced. I enjoy the honour of serving on the Public Services Select Committee. During our recent inquiry, one very clear fact emerged, which was the frequent need to be more open to sharing data. We saw very clear evidence that bodies which chose to share data were able to rise to the challenges of the pandemic much more readily. So I very much endorse the approach of these regulations in this regard, although, like others, I look forward to the imminent—I hope—memorandum of understanding.

On the stricter control of gatherings of over 15 people, again this seems eminently sensible. Clearly, the larger the gathering, the greater the concern. I suspect that many people would strongly support these regulations and would perhaps even favour a tougher regime. I have a question in this regard for my noble friend. Clearly, the mischief which the regulations seek to address is large unauthorised gatherings. Why then do the regulations restrict themselves to private dwellings, educational establishments or indoor raves? Clearly, they are part of the problem that we need to tackle, but what happens if there is a large gathering on business premises or in a barn, on industrial or charitable premises, or perhaps there is unauthorised use of a public building? It seems that, as drawn, the regulations do not cover these types of activity. It may well be that I have missed something or that some other regulations deal with those situations, but if the problem is large unauthorised gatherings, why are we not tackling all indoor gatherings rather than just some of them? Subject to that caveat and concern, I give strong support to these regulations and once more thank the Minister for all he does for our House.

Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (Self-Isolation and Linked Households) (England) Regulations 2020

Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth Excerpts

Thursday 7th January 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth (Con) [V]]

My Lords, I thank our NHS and care home staff, who are now in the eye of this storm, for all that they do. I agree with other noble Lords about testing at ports and points of entry. Look at the experiences of Australia and New Zealand. It is extraordinary that we have not done this already. I also agree with the noble Lord, Lord Campbell-Savours, about the wearing of masks. We must err far closer to clamping down on this disease and further away from freedom in this regard, and do so very quickly.

Vaccinations are obviously key to all this, and I agree with others who pointed to the experience of Israel. If there is no shortage of supply, and I would encourage the Minister to make clear that there is not, why are we not making more progress than we are currently seeing? We certainly need to use community pharmacists and we should be welcoming volunteers, not making it more difficult for them with some of the extraordinary red tape in the training and questions about deradicalisation and so on. It is monstrous and makes no sense at all.

I hope that the Minister can provide some clarity, disregard his script and tell us why we are not having night clinics and why we are not working at inoculating every day of every week and using every conceivable site for inoculation now? That is what we must do. The nation is crying out for progress on this joint endeavour, standing ready to help in every conceivable way. The Government really need to step up the programme of vaccination, to do so at pace, and to do so now.

Health and Social Care Act 2008 (Regulated Activities) (Amendment) (Coronavirus) (No. 2) Regulations 2020

Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth Excerpts

Thursday 10th December 2020 Grand Committee

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth (Con) [V]]

My Lords, it is a great pleasure to follow the noble Baroness, Lady Bennett, who is always incisive. I thank my noble friend the Minister for setting out the measures so clearly and I wish him and his family all the best in the difficult situation he finds himself in. His workload is massive and this added pressure is extraordinary.

There is a clear need for testing for Covid-19, as my noble friend has set out, and that will continue for some time, notwithstanding the very good news about vaccinations. I support the measures. It is important that there is an appropriate regime for accrediting those who are carrying out testing on a commercial basis, and I recognise that the existing Care Quality Commission system had gaps in it. But the regime that is applicable under the commission meant that some test providers were within the ambit of the commission and others were not, so that was difficult to navigate. The new system seems more streamlined and straight- forward. It is to be provided by a body that we know is effective, the UK Accreditation Service. It will reduce barriers but will ensure that testing is of high quality. We should all welcome that.

Notwithstanding that, I have some questions which may tie in with some that have already been asked. The first was raised by the noble Lord, Lord Hunt: does the UKAS have the resources, expertise and capacity to handle this? I seek some reassurance from the Minister in that regard. My second point relates to liability. As is referred to in the Explanatory Memorandum, there is to be liability for failing to comply with the obligations in the instrument, and I understand that. I am not sure whether this will apply to companies or just to individuals. If it applies to companies, will it also apply to company directors? What if there are repeated breaches? Is there a scale of fines that are to apply? I believe that a fine is applicable on summary conviction. Is that a repeated fine and does it escalate? I would be grateful for some guidance from my noble friend on the matter.

Thirdly, I refer to a point made by my noble friend Lady Altmann about the cost of applications. I am not clear on how costly it was under the CQC system for applicants, and how costly it is going to be under the new system. I think that it will be cheaper, but perhaps my noble friend the Minister could give guidance on what those costs will be. With those considerations, I am otherwise supportive of what seems a very sensible move.

Nutrition (Amendment etc.) (EU Exit) Regulations 2020

Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth Excerpts

Wednesday 25th November 2020 Grand Committee

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth (Con) [V]]

My Lords, I thank my noble friend Lord Bethell for setting out these regulations very clearly and for dealing with the consultation on them. As he rightly said, the essence of these EU exit regulations relates to the Northern Ireland protocol and the withdrawal agreement. The EU nutrition legislation will continue to be applicable in Northern Ireland, while in Great Britain we will be able to set our own regulatory regime.

As my noble friend said, a consultation was carried out between 9 and 30 July 2020, inviting participation from food manufacturing and nutrition industry representative groups and the public more generally. Perhaps I may ask my noble friend, first, why the consultation period was so short. There were only 18 respondents. The responses seem quite probing and informative, but such a short period meant that inevitably those participating were relatively few in number.

I turn to some questions based on the consultation. Some 71% of respondents thought that the wording and technical details of the process needed clarification. That is a relatively high percentage, admittedly of a small number of respondents, but perhaps my noble friend can say what Her Majesty’s Government are doing in response to that. There were also requests for simplification of the process.

With regard to access to information on the process, trade bodies requested more regular updates than the current quarterly BEIS updates. What are the Government doing in response to that? Is there to be a more frequent response from BEIS to help trade bodies and those who need these updates?

In the consultation, the impact of the Northern Ireland protocol was also raised by many, expressing concern about the divergence. The consultation response —in, I have to say, a rare example of it perhaps not hitting the nail on the head—talked about how people were unable to estimate exactly how they would be impacted individually. That is scarcely surprising; it is not really evident at the moment, so I do not think that that is a sufficient answer to that concern.

On the consultation process, 82% expressed themselves satisfied, although there was some concern about the short period of the consultation, to which I have already alluded.

Perhaps I may compliment the Government on the consultation response that we see here. All too often over the years, as I am sure other noble Lords will agree, the quality of consultation responses has perhaps not always been what we would have wished for. However, in my view, this consultation response was set out in a very lucid and straightforward way. It was, in many ways, a model. In most cases, it also acknowledges shortcomings and seeks to address concerns, and that is to be welcomed. For example, on divergence, it highlights the common frameworks approach, which my noble friend also referenced, as successful. I agree entirely with this part of the consultation response, and I hope that we are able to pass that outcome and make this compulsory reading for the ministerial team dealing with UKIM. The common frameworks approach is successful and works, and it will be increasingly important, given that so much has now returned from Europe and we are dealing with—

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth (Con) [V]]

It is somewhat ironic that I was just stressing the importance of devolved arrangements when we were called to a vote on the United Kingdom Internal Market Bill. I was concluding my remarks, but I want to say that I am very pleased that the guidance has now been published—I think my noble friend said—on 17 November. I hope that has given those concerned sufficient time to become acquainted with the guidance and the impact of the regulations. I welcome that, given the impending nature of the new system that is coming into force.

I welcome the statement that officials across the four nations will continue to work closely together to prepare the United Kingdom for the end of the transition period. As I say, it is becoming very apparent that our devolved arrangements within these islands will be increasingly important in the years ahead, and that is now looming with the new period starting with 1 January 2021. I welcome that and support the regulations, subject to the remarks that I have made.

Reciprocal and Cross-Border Healthcare (Amendment etc.) (EU Exit) Regulations 2020

Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth Excerpts

Monday 16th November 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth (Con) [V]]

My Lords, it is a great pleasure to follow the noble Lord, Lord Greaves, who, typically, has come up with some very important questions. I thank the Minister for setting out the terms of the regulations and their implications. I can see that, on one level, these are technical points, but in reality they are going to make a substantial difference to the lives of many millions of Britons. It is that that concerns me at the moment.

I accept that we are obviously moving out of the EU: that is a given. What is not clear is whether we are going to have an agreement at the end of the transition period, which is only some six weeks away. I can see that the six weeks of remaining rights relating to travel are not, in the great scheme of things, that significant, given that very few people will be travelling at the moment. But given the great news that we have had on the vaccines—and I pay tribute to the people who have worked on them, particularly the children of Turkish immigrants in Germany working for BioNTech, who made a massive breakthrough—the likelihood of increased travel, certainly towards the end of next year and thereafter, is very much in play, and we all welcome that.

Having heard the Minister setting out the position, I find it somewhat obscure, involving a rather confused set of rights and obligations. It is confused in the sense that there is any number of different combinations of obligations and rights according to how one looks at this; it is a positive Rubik’s cube of different obligations and rights, and is anything but simple.

What is clear—and it is good news—is that UK nationals living and working in the EU will be entitled to member-state-funded healthcare. That is good news. What is less clear—this was a point touched on also by the noble Baroness, Lady Ludford—is whether, if they return to the UK, they will be entitled to free healthcare here. Perhaps it is very much the case that that is so, but I would be grateful if the Minister could confirm it so that we all know, because it has not been set out very clearly. There are rights for EU citizens in the UK on a similar basis, and I certainly welcome that.

It is also clear that UK citizens who go on holiday or visit an EU member state for a business trip from the beginning of next year, in the absence of a comprehensive agreement, will no longer be able to use their health insurance card or a comparable card, and so will have to take out insurance to ensure proper cover in the absence of that EU-UK agreement, or in the absence at least of bilateral agreements with each of the other states—I think it would be 26 states in this instance, because Ireland is separately catered for. That is anything but simple, if we are going to have 26 separate agreements with different states. I hope we reach a position where there is cover with all of them, but it would be good to know that it is going to be the same cover; otherwise, the insurance position of, for example, young travellers or students on Interrail travelling overseas, having to get different insurance for different countries, will be anything but straightforward and anything but just technical.

I ask the Minister also about whether there has been proper publicity and promotion of the information that will be very much in play at the beginning of next year. If we have no agreement, then there is a need for insurance to ensure proper cover. I am not sure that people appreciate that, and I do not think there has been a sustained publicity campaign about this. I appreciate that we are still hoping for an agreement, but I think that some contingency arrangements should be put in place to ensure that people are aware of the position that will apply at the beginning of next year. The consequences otherwise could be horrendous. It is not simply the cost of insurance, which people will not welcome; it is the cost of what happens if you do not have insurance that is really serious. I would be grateful if my noble friend the Minister could say something on that.

I too am concerned about the position for people with deep-seated medical issues. The noble Baroness, Lady Ludford, mentioned dialysis, and it is a point well made. What is being done to cater for people in this category, who have been previously able to travel without massive insurance costs because of reciprocal rights being applicable? Are we doing anything in that regard? I appreciate the timescales here but, given that we have known these timescales for some time, it would be good to hear that some contingencies are being put into place in relation to these situations.

The last point I wish to raise is in relation to the healthcare that we provide throughout the United Kingdom—not just within England. The UK was, of course, a member state and was subject to reciprocal arrangements for reimbursement of costs that are applied by the healthcare systems of the four nations in relation to travellers from the EU. Are we liaising with the devolved nations to ensure that we have some sort of common approach to the recovery of any costs? It seems to me that there is a recipe here for red tape and bureaucracy beyond what is needed. It would be good to hear that we are on top of this and looking at how we go about seeking reimbursement of these costs. As I say, that is something that I hope does not need to happen, but it may need to happen.

I thank the Minister for confirming that the devolution arrangements are working well with the devolved nations and that that is happening on a very good basis. I am pleased to hear that; it is certainly music to my ears. It would be good to hear that we are on top of that reimbursement issue.

With those thoughts, I rest the case. There are obviously some concerns, but I thank the Minister for setting out the position as clearly as he did.

Blood Safety and Quality (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2020

Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth Excerpts

Monday 2nd November 2020 Grand Committee

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth (Con) [V]]

I thank my noble friend Lord Bethell for setting out these regulations so clearly. I strongly support all four sets of regulations; as he has said, they are vital to honour the withdrawal agreement. Indeed, that withdrawal agreement is at the base of the regulations we are considering. They essentially ensure that for the purposes of the quality and safety of organs intended for transplant, human tissue, blood and blood products, gametes, embryos and reproductive cells, Northern Ireland is still treated as if it were part of the EU and still a member state. Great Britain—England, Wales and Scotland—is to be treated as a non-member state. Current EU law will therefore remain in place in Northern Ireland, and Great Britain is a third-party state as far as Northern Ireland is concerned.

Initially, this will perhaps not create any day-to-day problems because there will be no initial divergence. However, paragraph 7.13 of the Explanatory Memorandum to these regulations sets out clearly that Northern Ireland establishments will consider Great Britain the same as a non-EU member state, and that Northern Ireland will ensure that there are “equivalent standards” for blood and blood products—those words are used—and for organ issues. Again, it provides for equivalent safety and quality standards. That perhaps is the answer: the standards could be divergent, but they must be equivalent, so there cannot be too much divergence from the norm. That is reassuring.

I do not have an issue with the purpose of these recognitions—I have no problem with that at all; it is a matter of practical common sense. I was briefly a Minister in Northern Ireland, and I saw that the invisible border meant that in practice, ambulances from one side of the border that were near the border would help out when needed on the other side. That was very sensible—it was pragmatic, practical common sense and it happened on a daily basis. However, the withdrawal agreement provided for the situation that we are dealing with here. Like my noble friend Lord Lansley, I ask: why, then, it is then a problem in relation to the United Kingdom internal market legislation? It does not make sense. What we are doing here is sensible and was foreseen—indeed, it was foreseen elsewhere. So why is it a problem with, as it were, the “mothership” legislation? I do not know whether the Minister will feel able to answer that, but it is a real issue for me.

As I say, I have no problem with this legislation at all, which seems very sensible for these purposes. It is a matter of geographic reality rather than anything else. I suspect that the problem is the same in relation to energy regulations that may well be coming forward. For these purposes, once again, if there is a problem with supplying energy on one side of the border because of a failure of supply, the first place one looks is the other side of the border: that is geographic reality and common sense. These matters are being dealt with pragmatically and sensibly, so why are we proposing to breach international law in relation to a broader front? It does not make sense. So I will be very grateful if the Minister feels able to deal with that issue, and I hope that he will. However, the regulations themselves are sensible and I certainly support them.