Nutrition (Amendment etc.) (EU Exit) Regulations 2020

Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth Excerpts

Wednesday 25th November 2020 Grand Committee

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth (Con) [V]]

My Lords, I thank my noble friend Lord Bethell for setting out these regulations very clearly and for dealing with the consultation on them. As he rightly said, the essence of these EU exit regulations relates to the Northern Ireland protocol and the withdrawal agreement. The EU nutrition legislation will continue to be applicable in Northern Ireland, while in Great Britain we will be able to set our own regulatory regime.

As my noble friend said, a consultation was carried out between 9 and 30 July 2020, inviting participation from food manufacturing and nutrition industry representative groups and the public more generally. Perhaps I may ask my noble friend, first, why the consultation period was so short. There were only 18 respondents. The responses seem quite probing and informative, but such a short period meant that inevitably those participating were relatively few in number.

I turn to some questions based on the consultation. Some 71% of respondents thought that the wording and technical details of the process needed clarification. That is a relatively high percentage, admittedly of a small number of respondents, but perhaps my noble friend can say what Her Majesty’s Government are doing in response to that. There were also requests for simplification of the process.

With regard to access to information on the process, trade bodies requested more regular updates than the current quarterly BEIS updates. What are the Government doing in response to that? Is there to be a more frequent response from BEIS to help trade bodies and those who need these updates?

In the consultation, the impact of the Northern Ireland protocol was also raised by many, expressing concern about the divergence. The consultation response —in, I have to say, a rare example of it perhaps not hitting the nail on the head—talked about how people were unable to estimate exactly how they would be impacted individually. That is scarcely surprising; it is not really evident at the moment, so I do not think that that is a sufficient answer to that concern.

On the consultation process, 82% expressed themselves satisfied, although there was some concern about the short period of the consultation, to which I have already alluded.

Perhaps I may compliment the Government on the consultation response that we see here. All too often over the years, as I am sure other noble Lords will agree, the quality of consultation responses has perhaps not always been what we would have wished for. However, in my view, this consultation response was set out in a very lucid and straightforward way. It was, in many ways, a model. In most cases, it also acknowledges shortcomings and seeks to address concerns, and that is to be welcomed. For example, on divergence, it highlights the common frameworks approach, which my noble friend also referenced, as successful. I agree entirely with this part of the consultation response, and I hope that we are able to pass that outcome and make this compulsory reading for the ministerial team dealing with UKIM. The common frameworks approach is successful and works, and it will be increasingly important, given that so much has now returned from Europe and we are dealing with—

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[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth (Con) [V]]

It is somewhat ironic that I was just stressing the importance of devolved arrangements when we were called to a vote on the United Kingdom Internal Market Bill. I was concluding my remarks, but I want to say that I am very pleased that the guidance has now been published—I think my noble friend said—on 17 November. I hope that has given those concerned sufficient time to become acquainted with the guidance and the impact of the regulations. I welcome that, given the impending nature of the new system that is coming into force.

I welcome the statement that officials across the four nations will continue to work closely together to prepare the United Kingdom for the end of the transition period. As I say, it is becoming very apparent that our devolved arrangements within these islands will be increasingly important in the years ahead, and that is now looming with the new period starting with 1 January 2021. I welcome that and support the regulations, subject to the remarks that I have made.

Reciprocal and Cross-Border Healthcare (Amendment etc.) (EU Exit) Regulations 2020

Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth Excerpts

Monday 16th November 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth (Con) [V]]

My Lords, it is a great pleasure to follow the noble Lord, Lord Greaves, who, typically, has come up with some very important questions. I thank the Minister for setting out the terms of the regulations and their implications. I can see that, on one level, these are technical points, but in reality they are going to make a substantial difference to the lives of many millions of Britons. It is that that concerns me at the moment.

I accept that we are obviously moving out of the EU: that is a given. What is not clear is whether we are going to have an agreement at the end of the transition period, which is only some six weeks away. I can see that the six weeks of remaining rights relating to travel are not, in the great scheme of things, that significant, given that very few people will be travelling at the moment. But given the great news that we have had on the vaccines—and I pay tribute to the people who have worked on them, particularly the children of Turkish immigrants in Germany working for BioNTech, who made a massive breakthrough—the likelihood of increased travel, certainly towards the end of next year and thereafter, is very much in play, and we all welcome that.

Having heard the Minister setting out the position, I find it somewhat obscure, involving a rather confused set of rights and obligations. It is confused in the sense that there is any number of different combinations of obligations and rights according to how one looks at this; it is a positive Rubik’s cube of different obligations and rights, and is anything but simple.

What is clear—and it is good news—is that UK nationals living and working in the EU will be entitled to member-state-funded healthcare. That is good news. What is less clear—this was a point touched on also by the noble Baroness, Lady Ludford—is whether, if they return to the UK, they will be entitled to free healthcare here. Perhaps it is very much the case that that is so, but I would be grateful if the Minister could confirm it so that we all know, because it has not been set out very clearly. There are rights for EU citizens in the UK on a similar basis, and I certainly welcome that.

It is also clear that UK citizens who go on holiday or visit an EU member state for a business trip from the beginning of next year, in the absence of a comprehensive agreement, will no longer be able to use their health insurance card or a comparable card, and so will have to take out insurance to ensure proper cover in the absence of that EU-UK agreement, or in the absence at least of bilateral agreements with each of the other states—I think it would be 26 states in this instance, because Ireland is separately catered for. That is anything but simple, if we are going to have 26 separate agreements with different states. I hope we reach a position where there is cover with all of them, but it would be good to know that it is going to be the same cover; otherwise, the insurance position of, for example, young travellers or students on Interrail travelling overseas, having to get different insurance for different countries, will be anything but straightforward and anything but just technical.

I ask the Minister also about whether there has been proper publicity and promotion of the information that will be very much in play at the beginning of next year. If we have no agreement, then there is a need for insurance to ensure proper cover. I am not sure that people appreciate that, and I do not think there has been a sustained publicity campaign about this. I appreciate that we are still hoping for an agreement, but I think that some contingency arrangements should be put in place to ensure that people are aware of the position that will apply at the beginning of next year. The consequences otherwise could be horrendous. It is not simply the cost of insurance, which people will not welcome; it is the cost of what happens if you do not have insurance that is really serious. I would be grateful if my noble friend the Minister could say something on that.

I too am concerned about the position for people with deep-seated medical issues. The noble Baroness, Lady Ludford, mentioned dialysis, and it is a point well made. What is being done to cater for people in this category, who have been previously able to travel without massive insurance costs because of reciprocal rights being applicable? Are we doing anything in that regard? I appreciate the timescales here but, given that we have known these timescales for some time, it would be good to hear that some contingencies are being put into place in relation to these situations.

The last point I wish to raise is in relation to the healthcare that we provide throughout the United Kingdom—not just within England. The UK was, of course, a member state and was subject to reciprocal arrangements for reimbursement of costs that are applied by the healthcare systems of the four nations in relation to travellers from the EU. Are we liaising with the devolved nations to ensure that we have some sort of common approach to the recovery of any costs? It seems to me that there is a recipe here for red tape and bureaucracy beyond what is needed. It would be good to hear that we are on top of this and looking at how we go about seeking reimbursement of these costs. As I say, that is something that I hope does not need to happen, but it may need to happen.

I thank the Minister for confirming that the devolution arrangements are working well with the devolved nations and that that is happening on a very good basis. I am pleased to hear that; it is certainly music to my ears. It would be good to hear that we are on top of that reimbursement issue.

With those thoughts, I rest the case. There are obviously some concerns, but I thank the Minister for setting out the position as clearly as he did.

Blood Safety and Quality (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2020

Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth Excerpts

Monday 2nd November 2020 Grand Committee

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth (Con) [V]]

I thank my noble friend Lord Bethell for setting out these regulations so clearly. I strongly support all four sets of regulations; as he has said, they are vital to honour the withdrawal agreement. Indeed, that withdrawal agreement is at the base of the regulations we are considering. They essentially ensure that for the purposes of the quality and safety of organs intended for transplant, human tissue, blood and blood products, gametes, embryos and reproductive cells, Northern Ireland is still treated as if it were part of the EU and still a member state. Great Britain—England, Wales and Scotland—is to be treated as a non-member state. Current EU law will therefore remain in place in Northern Ireland, and Great Britain is a third-party state as far as Northern Ireland is concerned.

Initially, this will perhaps not create any day-to-day problems because there will be no initial divergence. However, paragraph 7.13 of the Explanatory Memorandum to these regulations sets out clearly that Northern Ireland establishments will consider Great Britain the same as a non-EU member state, and that Northern Ireland will ensure that there are “equivalent standards” for blood and blood products—those words are used—and for organ issues. Again, it provides for equivalent safety and quality standards. That perhaps is the answer: the standards could be divergent, but they must be equivalent, so there cannot be too much divergence from the norm. That is reassuring.

I do not have an issue with the purpose of these recognitions—I have no problem with that at all; it is a matter of practical common sense. I was briefly a Minister in Northern Ireland, and I saw that the invisible border meant that in practice, ambulances from one side of the border that were near the border would help out when needed on the other side. That was very sensible—it was pragmatic, practical common sense and it happened on a daily basis. However, the withdrawal agreement provided for the situation that we are dealing with here. Like my noble friend Lord Lansley, I ask: why, then, it is then a problem in relation to the United Kingdom internal market legislation? It does not make sense. What we are doing here is sensible and was foreseen—indeed, it was foreseen elsewhere. So why is it a problem with, as it were, the “mothership” legislation? I do not know whether the Minister will feel able to answer that, but it is a real issue for me.

As I say, I have no problem with this legislation at all, which seems very sensible for these purposes. It is a matter of geographic reality rather than anything else. I suspect that the problem is the same in relation to energy regulations that may well be coming forward. For these purposes, once again, if there is a problem with supplying energy on one side of the border because of a failure of supply, the first place one looks is the other side of the border: that is geographic reality and common sense. These matters are being dealt with pragmatically and sensibly, so why are we proposing to breach international law in relation to a broader front? It does not make sense. So I will be very grateful if the Minister feels able to deal with that issue, and I hope that he will. However, the regulations themselves are sensible and I certainly support them.

Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (Self-Isolation) (England) Regulations 2020

Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth Excerpts

Thursday 22nd October 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth (Con) [V]]

My Lords, it is a pleasure to follow the noble Baroness, Lady Uddin.

I applaud the work ethic of my noble friend and thank him very much for setting out the regulations. I certainly support the intent behind them, but they are, of course, dependent for their efficacy on several factors.

The first important factor relates to clarity. As other noble Lords have said, these regulations are not a model of clarity. Can my noble friend say something about getting some simple messages across to people, so that those affected by these regulations are in a position to understand them? At the moment, it is very difficult to do so.

A second factor relating to the efficacy of the regulations is whether people will obey them. Can my noble friend say what discussions there have been with the police about their implementation and about resources?

Also very material is the extent to which the regulations are being used. My noble friend referred to the importance of fixed penalty notices. How many have been levied so far? That is a very important consideration. Have they been used at all? It would be good to hear something on that.

Another factor relating to their efficacy is, as the noble Baroness, Lady Massey of Darwen, said, test and trace. The national Covid-19 app does not require people to self-isolate. Why on earth not? We were told that this app was going to be world beating. I wonder in what respect it has been. According to SAGE, it is making only a marginal difference. It is not tracing nearly enough people and is not being used as effectively as it might be. Perhaps I may ask my noble friend, as I have done previously, about the importance of using local public health teams throughout the country to improve traceability.

I approve of the rationale behind the regulations, but many questions need to be answered.

Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (No. 2) (England) (Amendment) (No. 5) Regulations 2020

Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth Excerpts

Tuesday 20th October 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth (Con) [V]]

My Lords, it is a great pleasure to follow the noble Lord, Lord Desai, who made some very telling points. I have some specific points on these regulations, as well as some more general points. The first point is, in a sense, a general one, and relates to the scrutiny function that we are expected to perform. We are always looking at these regulations in the rear-view mirror. These regulations were passed on 24 and 30 September respectively, which is a considerable time ago. The Minister has told us, in terms, that for the most part they are ancient history. This disturbs me and may mean that some of the specific questions that I have are no longer relevant; I do not know. But it would be good to know—and I appreciate that the Minister is going to say that it is a matter for the usual channels to decide, but presumably he has some input into this—when we are likely to be in close or hot pursuit of the date when regulations are made. That is something that I think we all have an interest in.

On the specific points of the regulations, I have a point about the exemptions from some of the curfew requirements at 10 pm. One relates to corner shops, which keep featuring as an exemption. I cannot find any backing for this, but I assume that a corner shop does not actually have to be on a corner; my own local corner shop is not. But it would be good to have that confirmed by the Minister and, if he is unable to do so, perhaps he could do so later in writing, copying in other noble Lords.

I also have a question about the figures for weddings and funerals, which I think has been asked before. Why are weddings set at 15 and funerals set at 30? Is there any evidential reason for this, or is it just a rather arbitrary decision? Also, there is an issue about various snack bars being subject to the closure requirement. Does this include snack bars and juice bars at gyms? I have some sympathy with the arguments put forward on the general point on gyms by my noble friend Lord Moynihan.

On the broader front, on the evidential basis, I find the anecdotal arguments of the Minister not compelling. We would do far better to follow countries such as Taiwan—a point made very well by the noble Baroness, Lady Jolly. But I do support these regulations, with those caveats and provisos.

Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (North East of England) Regulations 2020

Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth Excerpts

Monday 12th October 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth (Con) [V]]

My Lords, it is a great pleasure, as always, to follow the noble Lord, Lord Shipley, who put forward an exposition on some very relevant points, some of which I will be touching on. I thank the Minister for setting out the purpose of these regulations, which we are looking at retrospectively, as we always seem to do; they came into force on 18 and 22 September respectively. I am afraid it is yet more scrutiny by means of the rear-view mirror, which I think we all agree is far from satisfactory. I look forward to the day when we look at regulations much closer to the time when they come into force.

The first set of regulations relates to the closure of pubs, bars and restaurants in the north-east of England. The second set merely corrects some minor defects in the first; it is purely technical, and I make no complaint about that. The third set relates to enabling infant childcare arrangements, which the noble Lord, Lord Greaves, touched upon. I agree with him: it is probably not appropriate to dwell on it when we know that, as we debate the regulations, new arrangements are being discussed in the other place. So, I do not propose to spend time on that.

While I, like the noble Lord, Lord Shipley, recognise the need for these regulations and the fact that we are at a tipping point, I do have some general points to make about our whole approach, as well as some questions. First, we need effective parliamentary scrutiny and oversight. I have made this point many times, and I know the Minister has emphasised it, too, but it would be good to hear from him when this is going to happen—when we are not going to be constantly two to three weeks behind the curve, looking at regulations that are so out of date. These regulations, for example, talk about trying to align the north-east with the rest of England. As we speak, the “rest of England” is shrinking because new areas will be subject to the restrictions. But also, there is a sense we are in the tail-stream of what is happening out there. It is too late to be debating these in any effective way.

On a related point, we should be publishing the evidence. The evidence must be there—I certainly hope it is—and it would reassure people to know that rational decisions are being made on their behalf about the closure of hospitality undertakings, for example. Why on earth do we not publish this evidence? We had a review of these regulations before we even looked at validating them. Some regulations had two reviews before we validated them. It is not good enough. I hope the Minister will heed these points.

I agree strongly about the need for localism. Localism is trusted, effective and familial—it is what people want. When we look at overseas experience, as we on the Public Services Committee and many people in the news, television and other media have done, we see that controls are exercised better and test and trace is better at a local level. Just look at Germany’s record compared with ours. For goodness’ sake, let us learn the lesson and trust people locally much more.

I appeal to the Minister that we should learn these lessons. It would be good to know what the reviews said. We keep hearing that reviews are taking place; I never get to see them, and I do not know whether anyone else does. It is about time we were trusted with some of the evidence, so we can see for ourselves. I am sure the Government are acting in good faith and are generally making the right decisions, but it would be beneficial to involve the rest of Parliament, the rest of the country and certainly people locally, so that we know the decisions have been properly thought through. At the moment, it is not clear what the national strategy is. By that, I do not mean that we need a uniform, one-size-fits-all approach, but we need a national framework and a national indication of how we are attacking this virus and what we are doing locally.

I look forward to some clarity and some strategy, and to what my noble friend on the Front Bench, who carries a heavy load, has to say on these issues.

Health Protection (Coronavirus, Collection of Contact Details etc and Related Requirements) Regulations 2020

Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth Excerpts

Wednesday 7th October 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth (Con) [V]]

My Lords, I declare my interests as set out in the register. It is a great pleasure to follow the noble Baroness, Lady Barker, who has very impressive forensic skills.

I thank the Minister for setting out the background to these regulations. His prodigious work-effort continues to be incredibly impressive. I am surprised that he has managed to make a tour of west London pubs to see which are complying with the regulations, but obviously, he has, so congratulations on that too.

I strongly support these regulations. It seems to me that we all have a great interest in having an effective test and trace system. For that to work properly, we do need back-up, and this provides it. I share many of the concerns expressed by the noble Baroness, Lady Barker, but I come from a position of thinking that these regulations are very necessary and, as stated, they came into force some 20 days ago. I have had a chance to look at the regulations, and I do have some questions on them. It may be that my noble friend is not able to answer them all on the hoof today, as it were, but I would be grateful for a response in writing, with a copy to other noble Lords and to the Library, if he is not able to do so.

My noble friend indicated that some 634,000 businesses or institutions have downloaded the QR code facility. Is he in a position to indicate what percentage of those needed for this to be effective across the board that represents? It may be that is a very high percentage, and that we are not looking significantly elsewhere for other institutions to sign up, but it would be interesting to know how many have not done so, and what percentage that represents.

Further, with regard to the specific persons and institutions affected by these regulations, I do have some specific questions. First, in the Explanatory Memorandum, there is an exemption for police and security officers visiting businesses. I understand that, in an emergency, it may not be appropriate for them initially to download or indicate with the app that they are present—they are pressed, in terms of doing other things. However, there will be visits by police and security officers that are not in that urgent situation, and indeed, in situations where there is an urgency, subsequently it is surely desirable that their presence there is also recorded. So I wonder why that exemption exists, and whether there will be some review mechanism so that we are able to extend these regulations sensibly to those who should be affected by them.

In relation to accommodation—hotels, B&Bs and so on—I would be interested to hear from my noble friend whether short-term accommodation of the likes of Airbnb, which are well run and largely overseen by the Short Term Accommodation Association, are part of this system, bearing in mind that in many cases there will be remote check-in, and that people using these facilities may not come into contact with anybody at all. But on occasion, of course, they will. So I wonder whether there is a particular position there in relation to such businesses. In relation to non-commercial businesses, it seems that only commercial businesses, or commercial accommodation, I should say, are covered. What about hostels that are not run on a commercial basis—faith accommodation and so on? Why are they not subject to this? Art fairs are covered; why not antiques fairs and book fairs? These are detailed questions.

I strongly support the regulations. I am pleased that over 16 million people have downloaded the app. It needs to be many more, but we are making good progress here, and I congratulate my noble friend.

Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (No. 2) (England) (Amendment) (No. 4) Regulations 2020

Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth Excerpts

Tuesday 6th October 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth (Con) [V]]

My Lords, I strongly support a very strong response to this virus and believe we need to bear down upon it very heavily. An unadulterated libertarian approach to this public health crisis would be disastrous for our country and our people. I believe the public will respond to clear, consistent messaging, and I urge the Government to ensure that such messaging is better focused, clearer and consistent, because that has not always been the case. Indeed, there is often confusion about the basic messaging. I agree with other noble Lords and with my noble friend Lord Lamont that we need more parliamentary input and proper scrutiny in order to be able to look closely at the regulations and offer support to the Government.

On a completely different front, although one that is clearly related to the virus, I would like to say something about Chris Whitty and Sir Patrick Vallance. It was dreadful that they were attacked in the other place. I am very pleased that that has not been the case in your Lordships’ House, because they are public servants and not able to respond. They are doing a very difficult job in difficult circumstances and they deserve our support.

I would welcome confirmation from my noble friend that ultimate success will come only with a vaccine, and, in the shorter term, with effective testing and tracing. Clearly there is still much work to be done on both of those fronts. On the former, it is more difficult for the Government to take a lead on the vaccine, but in relation to test and trace, they really do need to get their act together.

I support these regulations. I cannot support the amendment, though I understand the motivation of my noble friend Lord Lamont in bringing it forward.

Coronavirus Act 2020: Temporary Provisions

Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth Excerpts

Monday 28th September 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth (Con) [V]]

My Lords, it is a great pleasure to follow my noble friend Lady Stroud and hear what she has to say on the need for a clearer strategy, much of which I agree with. We have heard two excellent, erudite maiden speeches today from the noble Baroness, Lady Clark of Kilwinning, and my noble and learned friend Lord Clarke of Nottingham. It is a great pleasure to see him in his place. With his enduring common sense and popularity, he is a great asset to the House. Like the noble and learned Lord, Lord Morris of Aberavon, I recall many rugby internationals, and particularly, going through Dublin, where just about everyone seemed to know my noble and learned friend Lord Clarke and an unsettling number of them seemed to want to buy him a drink.

This debate is welcome; it is a rare—all too rare, I would say—opportunity to take a look at the Covid crisis and the working of the Coronavirus Act. I agree with the noble and learned Lord, Lord Judge, my noble friend Lord Lansley, and many others, on the need to ensure that we have more frequent opportunities for oversight and scrutiny, both here and in the other place. It will strengthen the Government, not weaken them, and I look forward to hearing what my noble friend the Minister has to say in this regard.

I support the principle of the Act. Although I agree with my noble friend Lord Robathan on the need for more parliamentary scrutiny of the legislation and its operation, I do not agree with discontinuing the Act. I believe that the Government need a more strategic approach to this crisis, and parliamentary input should help provide that. We need to look at the experiences of other countries such as Germany, in particular, and New Zealand, and learn lessons. As my noble friend Lady Stroud said, we certainly need more consistent messaging—for example, on test and trace, where we have been all over the place on its importance and, more recently, as my noble friend said, on working from home, where confused and inconsistent messages have been put out.

I believe that we need more localism, with greater use of local knowledge and more local expertise. We also need more use of COBRA and, as many noble Lords have said, the involvement of our devolved Administrations to ensure a more co-ordinated approach throughout our entire United Kingdom. Above all, we need a proper focus on—and a more strategic approach to—test and trace; that is very important.

We should not let this debate go without mentioning successes. My noble friend Lady McIntosh mentioned the successes that we have had from the DWP—I agree with that—just as from the Chancellor we have had a very strong showing in terms of the economic response to this crisis. Above all, however, we need to be realistic. We need to see the Covid situation as it is, not as we would like it to be. This is a very real public health emergency and the Government definitely need the support of Parliament—but, in return, Parliament needs to have proper oversight and scrutiny, and I appeal to my noble friend the Minister to ensure that that will be the case. The Government need to come up with a more focused and much more strategic approach.

Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions on Gatherings) (North of England) Regulations 2020

Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth Excerpts

Friday 25th September 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth (Con) [V]]

My Lords, it is a pleasure to follow the noble Baroness, Lady Massey of Darwen, and to hear her speaking up for her community.

I thank the Minister for bringing forward these regulations, which I strongly support. Like others, I recognise the incredible workload that he is carrying at the moment. He really should be protected by a Geneva convention.

I very much approve of the partnership between localities and central government but, as I said yesterday, I wonder whether we have the balance right. Experience in other countries tends to suggest that more local action within a national framework is likely to be more successful than the experience we have seen to date.

I strongly support these regulations but I regret the retrospective nature of these debates, some seven weeks after the regulations have been made. I regret it not just because of the lack of parliamentary scrutiny that there should of course be, but because I want to give support to my Government, which is what I, with many others, would be doing across the party. That is to be regretted.

Yesterday, I raised the issue of BAME communities in Leicester, and I do so again in relation to many of the areas that we are protecting today. Because this disease has a disproportionate effect on those communities, I ask whether lessons have been learned from what has been happening.

Perhaps I may ask the Minister about the experience of test and trace locally. Is there spare capacity? What is the situation on the ground in these communities? Perhaps he could extend that to the national picture. Do we publish the daily figure for testing throughout the country and at different centres? If not, why are we not doing it? I think that we should, so that people can see what the spare capacity is and take heart from the fact that more people are being tested day by day.