Ukraine

Debate between Lord Bishop of St Albans and Earl of Minto

Tuesday 28th November 2023 Lords Chamber

[The Earl of Minto (Con)]

My Lords, I thank my noble friend for those fond memories of serving Her Majesty. The question about replenishment is not on a like-for-like basis. A lot of what we have gifted to Ukraine has been from stockpiles. When you deplenish stockpiles, you replace with what is more current, what is new and what is more appropriate to the area of operation that we find ourselves in. We are not preparing for a Cold War; we are preparing for something very different, as I am sure everybody in this House is fully aware. Therefore, the orders that have been placed for missiles, cannons, rifle rounds and shells are appropriate for the weaponry that we are bringing in and currently have, rather than some of the gifted matériel that we have got rid of in recent years.

[The Lord Bishop of St Albans]

My Lords, I was interested to hear the reference to the insurance for shipping. We are all aware, I think, of the vital importance of getting the grain out of Ukraine, both to support the Ukrainian economy and because it is making such a difference in feeding many parts of the world. Can the Minister tell us whether other contingency plans are being made in case shipping lanes get blocked again, and not least whether there other ways of getting grain out of Ukraine while we have the time to make those preparations?

[The Earl of Minto (Con)]

My Lords, the right reverend Prelate makes a very good point. There is an alternative route to get grain out, which is across the land. However, it comes at a cost, which is highly punitive. I think that, before the war commenced, Ukraine accounted for between 8% and 10% of global wheat exports and about 10% to 12% of corn and barley exports. This is a significant logistical problem. The idea of shifting that amount of grain out of Ukraine via vehicles and trains is obviously quite a challenge, so the sea route is extremely important. We can take great credit for succeeding in getting insurance in place. This allows ship movements out, which are increasing quite dramatically, at the recognised premium rate rather than what I might call a war rate.