Crime: Metal Theft Task Force

Lord Bishop of Ripon and Leeds Excerpts

Thursday 23rd January 2014 Lords Chamber

[Lord Taylor of Holbeach]

I had not been aware that that was presenting a particular problem and I should be grateful if the noble Lord could advise me further on it. We do not want to create difficulties in the implementation of any legislation. The measures taken have been extremely effective in reducing metal theft and I am sure that the House will welcome that.

[The Lord Bishop of Ripon and Leeds]

My Lords, the metal theft task force has been of inestimable value in checking the epidemic of lead theft from churches. Stripping of lead from church roofs has caused extensive rain damage to historic interiors. Will the Minister consult English Heritage, the Churches Conservation Trust and the cathedrals and church buildings division of the Archbishops’ Council as to how the destruction of our heritage can be combated and the work of the task force maintained?

[Lord Taylor of Holbeach]

I am very pleased to say that one of the effects of the task force and the legislation has been to add greater protection to our historic buildings. I have, myself, been on the roof of Northampton town hall—I did not jump; I climbed down—to see how encoding of the lead on the roof protects that metal. I think the right reverend Prelate will admit that ecclesiastical insurers are now looking at the premiums they have to charge as theft from churches has been greatly reduced. I am pleased to say that a gang of thieves in my own diocese of Lincoln was sentenced very heavily for the damage it had done.

Modern Slavery

Lord Bishop of Ripon and Leeds Excerpts

Wednesday 22nd January 2014 Lords Chamber

[Lord Taylor of Holbeach]

I know of the noble Baroness’s interest in this matter. We have data on unaccompanied young people seeking asylum. There were 1,125 who came in on that basis. We do not record data on young unaccompanied children who are not seeking asylum. Immigration officials will take action under Section 55 of the Borders, Citizenship and Immigration Act 2009 to identify and protect any unaccompanied child who is at risk. That section requires them to make arrangements to safeguard and promote the welfare of children.

[The Lord Bishop of Ripon and Leeds]

My Lords, there remains a serious issue of slavery in the business supply chain that affects much of what we buy. Will the Minister pursue a business-friendly model to eradicate that slavery, perhaps on the basis of the California Transparency in Supply Chains Act 2010, because a few simple reporting requirements may be more effective than simply extending the powers of the Gangmasters Licensing Authority?

[Lord Taylor of Holbeach]

I am very interested in the right reverend Prelate’s suggestion. As my experience before I came here was very much involved in the supply chain, I know how important it can be to have companies interested and integrated in good practice at every level. This is an area where we are looking to work with the supply chain to drive out slavery in supply at cropping and processing levels in food cases, and in the manufacturing industry.

Anti-social Behaviour, Crime and Policing Bill

Lord Bishop of Ripon and Leeds Excerpts

Monday 20th January 2014 Lords Chamber

[Lord Taylor of Holbeach]

My Lords, exceptionally, with the leave of the House, it might help if I speak at this early stage in the proceedings. I will explain the background to some of the discussions and reinforce the words of my noble friend Lord Deben in proposing his amendments. I will also set out the Government’s approach to the matter.

Following the debate in Committee, I met my noble friend Lord Deben, the Metropolitan Police, Westminster City Council, the Royal Parks and the receiver general of Westminster Abbey to discuss how we might more effectively address noise issues in the vicinity of the Palace of Westminster. The meeting confirmed the view I expressed in Committee, when we debated my noble friend’s amendments the first time, that there are already sufficient powers, including within existing Westminster City Council and Royal Parks byelaws, for the police, Westminster Council and the Royal Parks to deal with noise issues around the Palace of Westminster. From the Government’s perspective, the issue is not so much an absence powers, but the effective enforcement of the powers that are currently available.

It is true that there are some differences between the provisions that apply to Parliament Square under the Police Reform and Social Responsibility Act 2011, and those that apply to the area we are talking about here. For example, unlike the provisions of the 2011 Act, there is currently no pre-authorisation requirement for the use of amplified noise equipment in areas other than those covered by the Royal Parks Regulation. In addition, the offence under the 2011 Act attracts a higher maximum penalty of a £5,000 fine, compared with the Westminster City Council byelaws where the maximum fine is £500 and the Royal Parks byelaws where it is £200 or £1,000 depending on the offence. Your Lordships may take the view that a single set of harmonised controls in the vicinity of the Palace of Westminster might assist the enforcement agencies to deal with noise disruptions more effectively. However, the need for effective enforcement would remain.

Home Office officials and I would like to pay tribute to the public order team working on this issue. Home Office officials have worked with the Metropolitan Police, Westminster City Council and the Royal Parks to develop a robust enforcement plan for the current legislation. A joint protocol has been developed to deal with noise-related nuisance in the vicinity of Parliament. The key features of this protocol are that it sets out a clear process for dealing with noise issues around the Palace of Westminster; provides a single, adequately resourced contact number for complaints, which will be followed up; sets out a process for the police and Westminster City Council to liaise with protest organisers in advance and inform them of the legal position as regards the use of amplified noise equipment and their responsibilities; and sets out an agreed process for the police and Westminster City Council to work together to deal with noise issues arising from planned potential disruptive demonstrations. The enforcement agencies have also produced leaflets to ensure that people are aware of the legal position and their responsibility to minimise noise to allow others to carry on their normal business without serious disruption.

Earlier today, I met Deputy Assistant Commissioner de Brunner and Commander Dave Martin from the Metropolitan Police. They have assured me that the Palace of Westminster police will provide active support to Members of the House in dealing with noise issues. They have also assured me that the joint agency enforcement plan should effectively deal with noise issues in the vicinity of the House. We have agreed to review the situation in two months’ time to evaluate how the new enforcement plan is working.

As I have indicated, whatever the legislation in place, the key is effective enforcement. Noble Lords may consider that that objective would be better served by the adoption of these amendments. As for the Government, we have concluded that this is properly a matter for the House to determine and as such, if it came to a vote the Government will neither support nor oppose the amendments. My noble friend Lord Deben has made his case and no doubt others will want to contribute to this debate but, for once, I will not seek to be persuading noble Lords one way or the other.

[The Lord Bishop of Ripon and Leeds]

My Lords, I am very grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Deben, for the way in which he introduced this debate and to the Minister for those comments and his response. My colleague the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Newcastle has added his name to this amendment, thereby expressing the concern of these Benches, in particular with regard to the work and worship at Westminster Abbey and St Margaret’s parish church. I am sorry that the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Newcastle is unable to be with us today. However, it is a particular delight to welcome the very reverend Dean of Westminster, as he exercises his constitutional right to sit on the steps of the Throne of this House.

The Abbey has suffered, as the noble Lord, Lord Deben, was saying, as a result of what is often quite unintentional disturbance of its worship, and its role as a place of prayer and the worship of God. It is important to affirm absolutely both the right of protest, with the human rights which are involved in being able to protest, and, at the same time, the right and duty of the Abbey to maintain its pattern of prayer to God, particularly in view of the way in which it stands for the spiritual nature and concerns of this nation, and of our monarch and the Royal Family. Our daily prayers here with your Lordships stress particularly the needs of this realm and of the monarch. Westminster Abbey is a unique testimony to prayer for those needs, and there is a need at this point to ensure that the Abbey is able to fulfil that particular task which it has in the life of both the church and the nation. I support the amendment and am grateful to the Minister for his generous words about it.

[Baroness Berridge (Con)]

My Lords, I, too, support the amendment. Just hearing the outline of the different authorities involved when there are issues with protests outside the front of Parliament leads me to the view that without this amendment, enforcement has not perhaps been as easy as it could be. I take into account that Westminster Cathedral does not have this issue, merely by virtue of the fact that the Abbey and St Margaret’s are positioned outside Parliament.

We have done much hard work to ensure that the work of the House of Commons is not disturbed; we should afford the same privileges to the Abbey and St Margaret’s, which are in this unique position. Perhaps most persuasively, it is not just that there is worship there and wedding services. I am aware of this because I often cut through the Abbey’s yard. The young people being educated there and the people living there are, I am sure, also disturbed by the protests. This is a reasonable accommodation of the right to protest and the freedom of worship, while allowing people in their residential and educational roles to be uninhibited. I will be supporting the amendment.

Anti-social Behaviour, Crime and Policing Bill

Lord Bishop of Ripon and Leeds Excerpts

Wednesday 8th January 2014 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[The Lord Bishop of Ripon and Leeds]

18: Clause 17, leave out Clause 17

[The Lord Bishop of Ripon and Leeds]

My Lords, Amendments 18, 26 and 29 set out to remove the presumption that a child will be named publicly when they are involved in youth court proceedings relating to the new anti-social behaviour orders. I am very grateful to the Children’s Society, the Standing Committee on Youth Justice and others for concentrating my thoughts on this issue.

The Bill as it is currently written suspends Section 49 of the Children and Young Persons Act 1933 for children subject to the new orders and breach proceedings. For 80 years, Section 49 has provided a presumption against revealing details of a child’s identity. This Bill means that children will be named publicly as a default unless the court makes an active choice not to name them. My amendments do not prevent the court from naming a child if it thinks it appropriate to do so. They simply mean that a child will not be named by default.

The issue of publicly naming children is an important one. It raises a number of concerns regarding rehabilitation and safeguarding and is contrary to the usual presumption of anonymity that is granted to children in criminal proceedings. The presumption to name children has significant implications for the safeguarding of children. Naming a child publicly could mean that they are subsequently targeted by individuals or gangs wishing to exploit their vulnerability. Identifying a child as having been involved in anti-social behaviour could indicate that the child may be tempted to engage in risk-taking behaviour or that they will be more susceptible to being groomed. Children with special educational needs are also more likely to be involved in ASB, making them particularly vulnerable to exploitation.

Naming, thereby shaming, children can hinder the successful rehabilitation of those who wish to make a fresh start. It can be counterproductive by prolonging the problems that children have in re-engaging positively with their community. It can also make it extremely difficult for professionals to obtain services instrumental in a child's rehabilitation. There is little evidence that identifying a child is effective as a deterrent.

In our debates yesterday we were concerned with the Government’s very positive response to the need for education, health and care plans for children in trouble. I believe that this element of this Bill works in the opposite direction. In the age of the internet and social media, details of a child's identity are indelible once they are revealed. Children should not have this stamp on them from such a young age because it can affect their future ability to get a job, obtain housing and contribute to society. Naming and shaming through ASBOs has criminalised, stigmatised and negatively labelled young people and has in some cases perpetuated problems rather than helping to resolve them.

The Joint Committee on Human Rights has expressed concern about the impact of reporting on a child’s right to privacy in its pre-legislative scrutiny report. Naming and shaming contravenes the anonymity usually granted to children in criminal proceedings and denies the right to privacy in the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child. The Local Government Association has also expressed concern, especially about a child who receives or breaches an IPNA but who has not actually committed a criminal offence.

--- Later in debate ---

I will not go through the relationship of this debate with debates on ASBOs but I remind noble Lords that we must take into account the impact of lifting reporting restrictions on the young person. The youth court is well qualified to do that but we need to balance it against the needs of victims and the communities in which they live. For this reason, I am confident that the reporting of under-18s will be carefully considered, with all relevant factors weighed in deciding whether it is necessary to publicise an order against a young person. I therefore hope that the right reverend Prelate will feel reassured by the comments that I have been able to make and withdraw his amendment.

[The Lord Bishop of Ripon and Leeds]

My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for that response and I am at least partially reassured by what he has said, particularly in the promises to discuss with the judiciary and bring this debate to their attention, as well as emphasising the guidance to the professionals involved in such cases. I am grateful to those noble Lords who have spoken in the debate and I emphasise again the point made by the noble Earl, Lord Listowel, on just how damaged the children involved in these cases can be. They often feel deeply worthless.

Whether we are here as legislators or in the actual practice of the courts there is a need for us all to be aware, yes, of the needs of the community, which are very much at the fore of the discussion of IPNAs, but also of the needs of the child and the effect that will have on the community. If those needs of the child are not met then the damage to the community in the future can be much greater. However, I am at least partially reassured and so beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

Amendment 18 withdrawn.

Police: Public Trust

Lord Bishop of Ripon and Leeds Excerpts

Thursday 28th November 2013 Lords Chamber

[The Lord Bishop of Ripon and Leeds]

My Lords, I, too, am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Paddick, both for leading this debate and for his powerful and serious introduction to it. I also look forward to the first of many contributions to the work of this House from the noble Baroness, Lady Jones of Moulsecoomb.

I am also grateful to our police forces for their major role in establishing a courteous and sensitive society. Like many of my colleagues, I have, for example, accompanied police when they have been sharing news of a tragedy with relatives. I have been consistently impressed by the careful way that they have gone about their task. It is professionalism of the highest order. That reputation does indeed depend on the confidence of the public. I was a vicar in Sheffield at the time of the Hillsborough disaster in 1989, and I spent much of the following week taking relatives of the Liverpool fans who had died onto the Hillsborough pitch, working with police officers who were invariably courteous, sensitive and supportive. It is tragic that so much good work has been lost to our collective memory by the subsequent lack of confidence in senior police behaviour at that time.

Similarly, I was the vicar of the south Yorkshire mining community of Wath-upon-Dearne at the time of the 1984 miners’ strike, when relationships between police and the community were at their most fraught. Reputation then was upheld—significantly—only by the story that the police officers guilty of taunting the community were not the local officers whom we knew, but officers imported from Sussex and other places south of the Trent. I still do not know whether that was true, but it was a very convenient story for all sides in that tense situation. Confidence becomes fragile so quickly. In many of our communities, however, trust is still based on personal knowledge of individual police officers. I was grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Wasserman, for stressing the importance of keeping policing local, including the discussion and inquiries into offences.

In this context, I will not so much talk about the IPCC and its work as welcome warmly the draft code of ethics for the police forces of England and Wales that is currently published for consultation by the College of Policing. It is good to have specific standards of professional behaviour delineated there, for the police to build that confidence based on community relationships. These standards are filled with detail of how that relationship is to be developed, and I welcome the robustness of the sections on honesty and integrity, authority, respect and courtesy, and equality and diversity. Those are at the root of the proper use of authority by a citizen police force that is a part of our society and not set apart from it in order to police it. Police forces are given authority by the public and trusted to use it honestly, and to be aware of the dangers that are inherent in all authority and that come to the surface so easily.

I have two general points about the code on which I would be grateful for comments from the Minister. First, I regret what seems in the code and in our discussions about the IPCC to be a note of persistent negativity. The code seems more concerned with preventing bad policing than promoting the good. Not for one moment do I deny that we need to stop bad policing, and that where it happens we need to make due inquiries about it; but “thou shalt not” goes only so far in creating an effective culture for the way in which we work together.

It would be good to see the code developed so that it points confidently to the part that policing can and I believe does play in building a good society, creating and upholding the Queen’s peace, and positively establishing a foundation of confidence on which our communities will flourish. I have seen good policing doing just that, in personal contacts with those in need, in good relationships with local schools, and in the way in which, where necessary, arrests are carried out. The negativity of the code is understandable because it grew out of a disciplinary code, but positive energy for the common good is even more crucial than the elimination of bad practice.

I would also value a comment from the Minister on those points where the code seems to overemphasise the role of public opinion. In this, I support some of the points made by the noble Baroness, Lady O’Neill. A key stated criterion in the code is,

“whether their behaviour … is likely to reflect well on themselves and on policing”.

The unintended logic of that could be that an action is good or bad only if someone is watching or if somebody finds out about it. That cannot be the only—or an appropriate—moral imperative. Honesty and integrity exist or do not exist whether or not anyone knows about them. If the culture of respect to which the noble Lord, Lord Young, referred is to be developed among our police, the College of Policing would do well to get on to the front foot in its ethical work so that our police see it as their duty not simply to avoid wrongdoing but to pursue values that will make them still more a force for the common good.

Democratic Republic of Congo

Lord Bishop of Ripon and Leeds Excerpts

Thursday 24th October 2013 Lords Chamber

Asked by

[The Lord Bishop of Ripon and Leeds]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government on what evidence they consider the Democratic Republic of the Congo to be a safe country to which to return asylum seekers.

[The Lord Bishop of Ripon and Leeds]

Despite my unelected nature, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Home Office (Lord Taylor of Holbeach) (Con)]

My Lords, we observe our obligations under the refugee convention and the European Convention on Human Rights. Every asylum application is considered on its individual merits in the light of country information from a range of sources, including fellow European and asylum-intake countries. Returns are made only if it is safe to do so, and the courts have supported our position.

[The Lord Bishop of Ripon and Leeds]

I am very grateful to the Minister for that response. Following the Unsafe Return report of November 2011 and continued documented reports of ill treatment of those who return to the Democratic Republic of the Congo in the Unsafe Return 2 report of this month, will the Government use the evidence provided to challenge the DRC authorities and to set up a monitoring mechanism for those returned so that there is a minimal safety measure for them in this very dangerous country?

[Lord Taylor of Holbeach]

My Lords, the Home Office works very closely with FCO staff here in London and with embassy officials in Kinshasa. The embassy staff participated in the DRC fact-finding mission and stated that they were not aware of substantial evidence of any returnee being ill treated. However, I assure the right reverend Prelate that the Home Offices investigates specific allegations of mistreatment on return.

Undercover Policing

Lord Bishop of Ripon and Leeds Excerpts

Monday 24th June 2013 Lords Chamber

[Lord Taylor of Holbeach]

My noble friend is absolutely right. The Macpherson inquiry was only as good as the information that was made available to it. I said in my earlier response that if the Macpherson inquiry had had knowledge of the allegations that we are now aware of, there would have been a fuller investigation of this particular aspect, which may have changed the tone of that report even further.

I emphasise that the Ellison inquiry is an independent report. It stands outside the police force. However, we know that we need the police to investigate these sorts of matters. They are the vehicle in this country—they have the powers of arrest. They have the power and we need that power if we are going to pursue these allegations fully. Having Mark Ellison working alongside them, investigating the scope of these investigations at the same time, we have that degree of independence, which justifies the parallel passage of these inquiries and investigations.

[The Lord Bishop of Ripon and Leeds]

My Lords, I express from these Benches the way in which our hearts go out to Doreen and Neville Lawrence at this fresh pressure upon them at this time. In that context, accepting the point made by the Minister that undercover operations are necessary to protect the public, I emphasise that the distinction between undercover operations and dishonest deception is a fine one. Therefore, can he tell us more about the possibility and timescale for a clearer code of conduct for undercover operations? How much—if any—of that could be published?

[Lord Taylor of Holbeach]

In order to set up proper supervision of undercover operations, primary legislation will probably be required; certainly legislation of some sort will be required, as was indicated by my right honourable friend Damian Green last week. He talked about secondary legislation to raise the level of authorisation for long-term undercover deployments to that of chief constable and to introduce a system of independent approval by the Office of Surveillance Commissioners for all renewals of long-term undercover deployment at 12-month intervals, so that there will be supervision by an independent body, set up by Parliament, to ensure that these operations are properly supervised.

Of course, the right reverend Prelate is absolutely right that we cannot reveal details without blowing the operation. However, the principles under which these operations are conducted will be established by using the Office of Surveillance Commissioners to supervise them.

Asylum Seekers: Support

Lord Bishop of Ripon and Leeds Excerpts

Thursday 24th January 2013 Lords Chamber

Asked By

[The Lord Bishop of Ripon and Leeds]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what was the basis for their decision not to increase provision for asylum support under Sections 4 and 95 of the Immigration and Asylum Act 1999 in 2012; and when they will decide on the level of such provision for 2013.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Home Office (Lord Taylor of Holbeach)]

My Lords, there is no statutory obligation to carry out an annual review of asylum support rates and it would be wrong to raise expectations in this area given the current constraints on funding. However, we are committed to an approach to asylum support that is fair, balanced and reasonable. Rightly, no one who has sought our protection need be destitute while waiting for an application to be decided, but, if it is refused and the decision is upheld by the courts, we expect these people to return home.

[The Lord Bishop of Ripon and Leeds]

My Lords, I am grateful for, but somewhat puzzled by, that Answer. If the purpose of the support is to prevent anyone falling into destitution, how can that support be reduced in real terms by 6.2% over two years without redefining destitution? Will the Minister commit himself to studying the evidence for destitution in the cross-party report on asylum support for children to be published next week and to take any action necessary to avoid destitution for all, especially children?

[Lord Taylor of Holbeach]

I hope that I can reassure the right reverend Prelate. There is an ongoing review of our approach to asylum support, which I expect to be concluded by the end of the financial year. That review will take into account the views of partners, including any recommendations set out in the report of the Children’s Society inquiry into asylum support for children and young people, due to be published next week, I believe.

I put on record my thanks to the right reverend Prelate for his involvement in the production of the report. As noble Lords might assume, any changes to the arrangements will be reported to Parliament.

Alcohol: Strategy

Lord Bishop of Ripon and Leeds Excerpts

Tuesday 27th March 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Henley]

My Lords, I shall not comment on my noble friend’s last remark. However, when my right honourable friend announced the strategy on Friday, other than objecting to the date of the announcement, I did not notice much that the party opposite objected to in the Statement. As regards my noble friend’s other points, I know Newcastle and have seen some of the problems that city centres such as that in Newcastle can face on Friday and Saturday nights as a result of excessive drinking. That is what we are trying to target. As I said, minimum pricing per unit of alcohol is just one part of it but I commend to the House other parts of the strategy, which will be available in the Printed Paper Office.

[The Lord Bishop of Ripon and Leeds]

My Lords, given that those aged under 18 make up as much as a third of alcohol-related A&E attendances in some areas, does not more need to be done to inform schoolchildren of the dangers of alcohol abuse? Will the Minister consult colleagues in the Department for Education, including the noble Lord sitting next to him, to ensure that there is an improvement in the information given to schools?

[Lord Henley]

My Lords, I assure the right reverend Prelate that my noble friend from the Department for Education heard that. However, he is right to draw attention to the problems of underage drinking and particularly to the prevalence of underage drinkers ending up in A&E departments. In my own part of the world in west Cumberland, I have seen some very good work being done by schools in Workington, which, sadly, has the highest rate of admissions to A&E in the country. However, as a result of the work being done there, I hope that in a few years’ time we will see those rates fall, and fall considerably.

Riots Communities and Victims Panel

Lord Bishop of Ripon and Leeds Excerpts

Thursday 1st December 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Henley]

My Lords, I congratulate the noble Baroness on her contribution to this report as one of the four members of the panel. We are very grateful to her for all her work. We will review the Riot (Damages) Act. It is a fairly ancient bit of legislation and obviously needs looking at. We will also review police tactics and how they worked and we will look at the reports from the Met and other police authorities. We should also look at the areas where we had no riots because there are possibly lessons to be learnt from why there were riots in some places and not in others. There will be a great deal to consider and no doubt the noble Baroness and her panel will produce yet more for us as this was only an interim report. I look forward to that, and the Government will respond in due course.

[The Lord Bishop of Ripon and Leeds]

My Lords, one of the most heart-warming flipsides of the tragedy of the riots that comes out from the report was the way in which it brought out the best in so many people, including many young people. What can the Government do to recognise and honour those who supported communities during the riots, those who cleaned up afterwards and, indeed, those who, in many cases, prevented riots developing in the first place?

[Lord Henley]

My Lords, the right reverend Prelate is quite right to draw attention to all those who did such sterling work during and after the riots. We all owe an immense debt of gratitude to them. I think we should also learn what we can about how some communities came together and either prevented riots or cleaned up after them. Again, I believe that there are lessons to be learnt, and the Government will take note of that in due course.