Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Bill

Lord Bishop of Leeds Excerpts

Lords Hansard - part two & Committee stage
Monday 22nd November 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Masham of Ilton (CB)]

My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Stowell of Beeston, for introducing this amendment. When I read about the terrible murder of Sir David Amess while he was attending his parliamentary surgery, I was very shocked and saddened. Later, I learned that his parish priest was denied entry by the police to the crime scene to administer the last rites. I was also shocked and surprised then. After the disgusting and tragic murder of Sarah Everard by a member of the police force, I hope they will show some contrition by understanding this sensitive amendment. We need kind, honest, well-trained police to undertake their vital work to keep everyone safe.

David Amess was an honourable, brave man. He will be remembered as an exemplary Member of Parliament. If someone else had been murdered instead of David, I feel that David would be bringing an amendment similar to this to Parliament.

The sacrament of the last rites, which is also known as extreme unction or anointing the sick, is for people who are gravely ill or close to death. It is the sacrament for the remission of sins, to strengthen and comfort the soul, and food for the journey. While not every Catholic will request the last rites to be administered by a priest, many do. It can be of utmost importance to some.

I would like to thank Alasdair Love from the Public Bills Office, who helped to put together this amendment. I am pleased that Cardinal Vincent Nichols and the Commissioner of the Metropolitan Police, Dame Cressida Dick, have agreed to establish a joint group to study these issues. I hope that training for police officers on this matter will be included. This gives some hope. I add that the coronavirus has made this sensitive and important matter even more complicated, but problems are for solving. I hope that providing the sacrament of healing to the dying who desire it will become more available. I look forward to the Minister’s reply and thank all who support this amendment.

[The Lord Bishop of Leeds]

My Lords, this is very sensitive territory. Dying is sacred and is part of our living. I think I am the only minister of religion here, and I have accompanied many people, including my own father, to and through their death. If you have been party to that, you will know that it is holy territory.

One could say that violent death is even more holy because of how that dying has been brought about. It seems that there needs to be religious literacy on the part of the emergency services and the police, and that the religious bodies need also to improve their literacy in relation to the nature of these events and how they are dealt with.

The noble Baroness the Minister mentioned at Oral Questions the complicating factor that this is a crime scene. The body becomes significant—I do not know what the correct terminology is, but you cannot muck about. Adding oils to the body or whatever becomes significant. But it should not be beyond the wit of man and woman to come to a reasonable accommodation.

Some 20 years ago, I came down to London to become the Archdeacon of Lambeth. I was surprised at how organised the Church of England was in south London, though not because it was south London—I had come from Leicester. There was a very well worked out arrangement with what are called ecumenical borough deans, so that each borough had a way of bringing the different faith communities together—not just Christians —working with the Met and other emergency services to ensure that, when there was a disaster, violence or violent death, there was a way of ensuring that ministers could have access to provide the ministry that the victim or their family requires.

I know that this is a probing amendment. I praise the emergency services and the police for their sensitivity in the way they have addressed this, but they are doing so within a culture that often treats religion as a private matter. I get told sometimes that Christians, Muslims, Jews and Hindus are all the same but just wear different clothes and have a different diet. It is not like that. Culturally, we need a deeper religious literacy—in the media, in our public institutions and public life, and in the nature of our discourse, where the language is often a giveaway.

I am glad that the Catholic Bishops’ Conference and Cardinal Nichols are having these conversations. I ask the Minister to urge that those conversations perhaps go wider and deeper, as we take our time to work out a more effective way of handling what is very sacred territory.

Male Abusive Behaviour

Lord Bishop of Leeds Excerpts

Wednesday 8th March 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

The noble and learned Baroness makes a very good point. It is what children see—their experiences of what is normal—that will shape the behaviour of young boys and young girls. Young girls may lose the value in themselves and young boys may not value girls as they grow up. The noble and learned Baroness is absolutely right, and work has been done in this sphere over the course of this Government and the previous Government.

[The Lord Bishop of Leeds]

My Lords, does the Minister agree that there are certain problems in the wording of this Question? Most men who engage in abusive behaviour do not recognise it as abusive and do not seek support, so there has to be a very important balance between preventive and restorative measures.

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

The right reverend Prelate hits on a sad point: not only do some men not recognise what they are doing as violence or coercive control but, unfortunately, some women do not realise that they are the victims of violence and coercive control. That is a very sad thing in today’s society, so I thank him for raising it.

Brexit: EU Nationals’ Right to Remain

Lord Bishop of Leeds Excerpts

Wednesday 11th January 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My Lords, I am sure that the Prime Minister will lay out the position in a clear manner as we move towards the triggering of Article 50 by the end of March, which is not very long to go.

[The Lord Bishop of Leeds]

My Lords, I feel a bit naive in this. Perhaps the Minister could explain. Supposing the EU countries decide not to do a deal to protect the interests of British nationals abroad, will the response be to say that those who are here will have to leave? We will face exactly the same problem that has been mentioned by several speakers—that we cannot maintain our agricultural, hospitality, health service and university industries. If that is the case, it does not sound to me like a bargaining point.

Operation Midland

Lord Bishop of Leeds Excerpts

Wednesday 9th November 2016 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My Lords, there will be a debate later today, if my noble friend would care to sit through the Committee stage of the Policing and Crime Bill. My noble friend and I do not disagree that there should be a presumption of anonymity, but it is important, in certain cases, for the police to be able to release names. The publication arrangements for the report are, as I have said, a matter for the commissioner to decide on.

[The Lord Bishop of Leeds]

My Lords, can the Minister comment on the criteria for deciding which names should be divulged and which should not? To use the language of victimhood, we are creating victims as well as defending victims.

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

Could the right reverend Prelate repeat the last bit of that question?

[The Lord Bishop of Leeds]

My point was that we are creating victims as well as defending them; we are creating new ones. What are the criteria—that was the essential question—for deciding when anonymity ought to be breached and names put out?

Hillsborough

Lord Bishop of Leeds Excerpts

Wednesday 27th April 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

To take the noble Lord’s last question first, it would certainly be inappropriate for me to straitjacket the CPS in any respect, but the CPS, the two ongoing inquiries and everyone involved in them are fully aware of the sensitive nature of this issue. As we said, there is a responsibility on all involved in these inquiries to make sure that we reach a decision which ensures that justice prevails as soon as is possible and practicable, but it is very much for the CPS to lead on this. I confess that I have not had time to reflect on the detail of the information the noble Lord sent to me this morning, but I certainly will, and look forward to discussing it with him.

[The Lord Bishop of Leeds]

My Lords, I declare an interest because I come from Liverpool and most of my family still live there. My grandmother lived on Anfield Road at the time of the tragedy—no one in Liverpool was so remote that they did not know someone who was affected by it. People who have not been recognised in the comments so far are those such as Steven Gerrard and Rafa Benitez, who gave huge amounts of money to support families and did so without expectation of gratitude or publicity. A lot of individuals, like them, showed enormous generosity at a time when the cause was not popular. Can the Minister assure us that the independent panel sets a model for how such investigations ought to be continued in the future in similar circumstances, with objective scrutiny of documentation? Also, does he think that current levels of press regulation under IPSO—before we get to Leveson stage 2—would be in any way stronger in preventing the sort of press abuse that continued until only three years ago?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I thank the right reverend Prelate for those questions. We have learned lessons from every element of the inquiry, and from the panel in particular. We will take forward all the issues, particularly good governance. We have set up an ongoing relationship with the former Bishop of Liverpool. On the issue of press regulation, as I have said already, we are waiting until the Government can look at the second part of the Leveson report to ensure that a comprehensive response can be given. On press regulation and review, we live in a very different world now from that of 27 years ago—indeed, of 10 years ago—and the press, along with everyone else, need to reflect on their responsibilities, particularly when reporting such tragedies as Hillsborough.