Border Security, Asylum and Immigration Bill

Lord Bilimoria Excerpts

2nd reading
Monday 2nd June 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bilimoria (CB)]

My Lords, immigration is constantly presented as a negative—something to be scared of and to be feared. The Border Security, Asylum and Immigration Bill tries to address these fears, dealing primarily with illegal immigration, which we unanimously want to stop.

After all, 150,000 people on small boats came to the UK between 2018 and 2024, and 99% of them claimed asylum. Small boats have been the predominant recorded entry method since 2020. Some 86% of illegal irregular arrivals are from small boats. The most recent arrivals bring the annual total to almost 15,000, which is up 42% on this time last year and up 95% from 2023. Of course, we know of the more than 1,100 who arrived on Saturday.

The channel crossing crisis has placed an enormous burden on our asylum system. The National Audit Office says that it is going to cost over £15 billion over 10 years. I am a trustee of Policy Exchange, which reported that the annual cost of the small boats crisis was in the region of £3.6 billion. This is costing us; there is no question about it.

The noble Lord, Lord Sahota, spoke about the people smugglers and the traffickers who cause untold misery. Some 138 people have sadly died attempting to cross the channel. Of course, there are other methods of transport, such as container lorries; let us not forget the sad incident of the 39 Vietnamese nationals who died in a lorry in Essex.

There is the organised immigration crime—OIC—business model. Criminal groups are increasingly using sophisticated methods to smuggle migrants across the border with fraudulent documents. They are using social media. It is appalling. Surely the good news is that resetting our relationship with the European Union, particularly on security, will enable us to work closer and prevent these awful criminals.

The noble Lord, Lord Green, pointed out that the net migration figure went from 1 million to 430,000 last year. Let us put this into context: illegal immigration is around 10% of this figure and 90% of the immigration to this country is legal immigration. He then spoke about birth rates. Let us get real; I do not know what the noble Lord is talking about. Our birth rate in this country is 1.44. We need a birth rate of over 2.0 to actually maintain our population at the moment, which is nearly 70 million.

The net migration figure was unusually high in the year ending June 2024, which was driven by two reasons. First, there was the demand for workers in the health and care sector. Secondly, there was the increase in international student numbers. We keep including international students in net migration figures. We should remove them. Would the Minister agree?

As a former president of the CBI and currently as chair of the International Chamber of Commerce in the UK, I know that there are labour shortages in just about every sector of our economy. When it comes to resetting our relationship with the European Union, I am delighted that the Erasmus scheme has come back to give so many opportunities to our young students to be able to travel abroad.

What about the scheme for young people moving for three years between the EU and the UK? Could we have some clarification on that and on the post-graduation work visa, which I worked very hard to institute in this country? It is two years post-graduation for international students and three years for PhD students. There is talk that this will come down to 18 months. This does not make sense. Could the Minister clarify this because the Migration Advisory Committee last year reported that it is working very well as intended?

The international student figure has now reduced from 680,000 to 450,000. The reasons for this are immigration policies, the expense of studying over here and the cost of visas. The value of international students is £42 billion to our economy. Far more important is the soft power that international students bring to this country; 25% of world leaders today have been educated in the United Kingdom.

There are these negative perceptions. I worked very hard on the UK-India free trade agreement, which we have just agreed. It took over three years. Yet there was this whole focus on the national insurance waiver for three years, which goes both ways between the UK and India. This is only fair, and it is to do with workers who come here on the points-based system and mostly the transfer of workers between companies.

The noble Lord, Lord Blunkett, in his excellent speech, said that everyone should have an identity card. Why do we not have an identity card system in this country? India has the Aadhaar cards for over 1 billion people, giving financial inclusion, digital inclusion and security. We have only 70 million people. We have a model; India has offered us that model. We have no exit checks at our borders. Every other country in the world has exit checks at the borders. The noble Lord, Lord Blunkett, spoke about integration. I am all for integration—not assimilation, but integration. He spoke about international students as well.

To conclude, the bad immigration which this Bill is trying to address is bad—full stop. But this country has always had a reputation for fairness and justice, and welcomes genuine refugees and asylum seekers. It is the good immigration that has made Great Britain great. Without the 18% of ethnic minorities in the UK, this country would not still be the sixth largest economy in the world.

I came to this country as a 19 year-old international student from India, as a Tata scholar, a Mahindra scholar and a Sethna scholar. I have had the opportunity to live the British dream. The Indian diaspora in this country is 2 million strong, out of 70 million. It is the largest ethnic-minority community and, I say with pride, the most successful one in this country, reaching the top in every field, from business to academia to politics. So let us not fear immigration; let us celebrate the good immigration that this country has always benefited from and that we should be proud of and grateful for.

India and Southeast Asia: Free Trade Agreements

Lord Bilimoria Excerpts

Thursday 6th March 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bilimoria (CB)]

My Lords, the India I was brought up in as a child was an inward-looking, insular, protective economy with a low level of growth. Since 1991, India has emerged as the fastest-growing major economy in the world, an emerging global economic superpower, and the fifth-largest economy in the world, soon to be the third-largest economy in the world. I predict that, by 2060, it will be the largest economy in the world.

I have been privileged to be at the forefront of UK-India relations for 22 years as co-chair of the India-British partnership, a member of the UK-India roundtable, the founding chair of the UK India Business Council and, currently, co-chair of the India All-Party Parliamentary Group. I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Anelay, for leading this debate at this very important time.

India is only the UK’s 11th-largest trading partner, and yet it supports 600,000 jobs between both nations. The goal, of course, is that we get this to increase to over $100 billion of trade by 2030. We have been negotiating this free trade agreement since 2022, when I was president of the Confederation of British Industry, the CBI. Three years have gone by. The benefits of an FTA are lower trade costs for businesses, greater consumer choice, lower prices and the maintenance of standards.

There was a pause in negotiations because of the elections last year in both countries. There are sticking points. We all know about India and Scotch whisky. We know about the greater mobility that India would like for professionals and students—I am the co-chair of the All-Party Parliamentary Group for International Students. Why, I ask the Minister, can we not take international students out of the net migration figures? That would help so much. Of course, India wants faster visa processing and concessions on national insurance for temporary workers. Are the Government considering this seriously?

From the UK’s point of view, we would like access, including for cars, where the duties are very high in India, and for Scotch whisky, where the duty is 150%. It has been reduced from 150% to 100% for bourbon, and we would like Scotch whisky duty reduced to 30%, if that is possible. Then, of course, there are financial services. The total trade in goods and services between our countries grew by 10%, and is now at £42 billion.

The diaspora is the living bridge; its members include people like me. I am proud to be part of the largest ethnic-minority community in the UK—and the most successful by far, reaching the very top in every field, whether it is politics, business or any other area.

We have talked about trade, but there is also investment. If we look at the Grant Thornton India Meets India Tracker report, we see that there are almost 1,000 Indian companies in the UK, turning over £50 billion and employing over 100,000 people. There are 635 British companies in India, with a revenue of £51 billion and employing almost 700,000 people. The amount of, and potential for, collaboration on technology and innovation is huge. Security and defence are important in this uncertain world in which we live, yet, over the last decade, only 3% of India’s defence acquisitions came from the UK. As India seeks to advance its defence industry and diversify away from Russia, the British defence sector could emerge as a key collaborator on technology transfers and support India’s “Make in India” efforts.

Then there is India’s membership of the Quad. I have said for a long time that the UK can join the Quad; does the Minister agree that we could have Quad Plus? Of course, we are already members of AUKUS. The Indian Minister of External Affairs, Dr Jaishankar, is in the UK as I speak. At Chatham House yesterday, he said that he was “cautiously optimistic” about the UK-India free trade agreement negotiations and that he hoped that

“it doesn’t take that long”.

I say to the Minister: three Diwalis have gone by since we started these negotiations, so please let us set a deadline, let us not have the best being the enemy of the good and let us conclude this free trade agreement. Let us get it done.

UK Airports: British Passport Holders

Lord Bilimoria Excerpts

Monday 3rd March 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hanson of Flint (Lab)]

The answer to the noble Lord is yes. We will continue to look at how we can get reciprocal arrangements with our European partner nations. We do that on an individual basis, and it is a matter for each nation as to whether it wishes to have that reciprocal arrangement. We will continue to work to achieve that in the interests of co-operation.

This Government are investing significant amounts of resource in border security, and that includes access gates and other things at airports such as Heathrow and Gatwick and around the country. That resource being invested in extra border security is money that we have saved from the wasteful Rwanda scheme that the noble Lord supported. We are going to put that resource into protecting our borders. I will certainly come back to him in due course with specific numbers and amounts of investment in respect of the particular issues that he has raised.

[Lord Bilimoria (CB)]

My Lords, the noble Baroness asked about people coming into this country. We are one of the few countries that do not have exit checks; in most other countries, you scan your passport when you leave the country as well. Would that not be a good idea from a security point of view in having control over our borders and immigration and, for example, students coming in and out? It would help us to be on top of the figures.

[Lord Hanson of Flint (Lab)]

That is an extremely sensible suggestion and one that I advocated 15 years ago when we were in government in 2009-10 and looking at that issue. I see my noble friend Lord West nodding; he was in the Home Office with me at that time. It is important that we know who comes in and goes out. One of our current migration challenges is people overstaying, so a main focus for the Government is how we can reduce that impact and make sure that people are in the UK legally at all times.

Net Migration Figures

Lord Bilimoria Excerpts

Thursday 25th May 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Murray of Blidworth (Con)]

I am unwilling to engage in conjecture as to what the figures will be for the coming year, but it is certainly clear that the measures we have announced on the student route reform, which the House heard about on the previous Question, will have a considerable effect in reducing the levels of migration in those categories for the year commencing January 2024. We will have to see what the statistics reveal in due course.

[Lord Bilimoria (CB)]

My Lords, the Prime Minister has five priorities. One of them is to stop illegal migration through the boats crossing the channel. Everyone agrees that we must do everything we can to stop them. Another of his priorities is to grow the economy. If the Prime Minister wants this, why are we restricting businesses from getting the labour force they need if they cannot get it domestically? I just had a meeting with leading hoteliers. One of them is shortly opening one of the best hotels in London and is targeting under 100% occupancy: he cannot recruit the people he needs. We need to activate the shortage occupation list. That is the promise of the points-based system. That will help. If we exclude international students from net migration figures, we will not scare people with these high figures that are not a true representation of migration into this country.

[Lord Murray of Blidworth (Con)]

The noble Lord neatly identifies the balancing act that needs to be performed by the Government on net migration. Clearly the Government cannot permit circumstances to arise where employers utilise foreign labour over domestic labour for the pursuit of greater profit. Of course, the countervailing factor is the availability of labour. The Government are obviously aware of these issues and make their decisions accordingly.

Student Visas

Lord Bilimoria Excerpts

Thursday 25th May 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Murray of Blidworth (Con)]

It is clear that the students who have these visas are entitled to work for 20 hours a week, the dependants of students are entitled to work in an unrestricted way and they are obviously users of services provided by the state. For all those reasons, it makes sense that they be included in the net migration figures.

[Lord Bilimoria (CB)]

My Lords, I speak as co-chair of the All-Party Parliamentary Group on International Students and the president of UKCISA. Is the Minister aware that we are in a global race for international students? We are against Australia, the United States of America and Canada, in particular, and those countries offer far better postgraduate work opportunities than we do. We offer two years; Australia offers four, five and six years. Why do we keep including international students in our net migration figures? It is wrong and fooling the public. The USA and Australia treat them as temporary migrants, which is what they are. If you exclude international students from the net migration figures, maybe the Government will hit the targets they have wanted to hit for so many years.

[Lord Murray of Blidworth (Con)]

I refer the noble Lord to the answer I gave some moments ago. It is worth saying, in relation to the first part of his question, that these changes will ensure that the UK’s higher education establishments are focused on recruiting students based on economic value and not on dependants, whose value in terms of student fees and wages is minimal. We have been successful in delivering our international educational goal of hosting up to 600,000 students per year by 2030 almost a decade earlier than planned and expect universities to be able to adapt to reduce dependant numbers.

50th Anniversary of the Expulsion of Asians from Uganda

Lord Bilimoria Excerpts

Thursday 27th October 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bilimoria (CB)]

My Lords, in 2002 I was privileged to be awarded “Asian of the Year” by the now noble Lord, Lord Blunkett—the then Home Secretary—and, in my acceptance speech, I said that

“in my lifetime we will see an Asian as Prime Minister of the United Kingdom”.

Although it took two decades, we now have Rishi Sunak as Prime Minister. In the early 1980s, when I came over from India as a 19 year-old international student, I was told by my family and friends in India, “If you decide to stay on and work in the UK after your studies, you will never get to the top; you will not be allowed. As a foreigner, there will be a glass ceiling for you”. They were absolutely right then, but over the decades I have seen that glass ceiling being absolutely shattered. I believe that this is now a country of aspiration, where anyone can get anywhere regardless of race, religion and background, and Rishi Sunak is a perfect example of that. Today, we have aspiration, we have achievements and we have inspiration, the latter of which creates aspiration in a virtuous circle.

It is difficult to think that on 4 August 1972, the Ugandan President, the dictator Idi Amin, gave 90 days to the Asian population to leave the country. Uganda’s Asian community at that time—a tiny proportion of Uganda’s population—was responsible for 90% of Uganda’s tax revenues. Some 40,000 Asians would then come to the UK over the following months to start their new lives, leaving behind their homes and businesses in their country of birth. Last year, I spent two weeks in Uganda with my family. What a beautiful country and what lovely people. I saw at first hand that the Asians who have now returned to Uganda are running farms, supermarkets and shopping malls—following a mass expulsion five decades ago. This is thanks to President Museveni, who has been in power since 1986. He has welcomed them back, and today—representing less than 1% of the population—they contribute to 65% of Uganda’s tax revenues. One of those individuals is reputedly Uganda’s richest man, Sudhir Ruparelia.

We have heard from so many speakers that Ugandan Asians are making their name in every part of society. This includes the noble Lord, Lord Popat, himself—who I thank for leading this excellent debate—my right honourable friend Shailesh Vara MP; Priti Patel, the noble Lords, Lord Gadhia and Lord Verjee; my noble and right reverend friend Lord Sentamu; the late Lord Sheikh; the noble Baroness, Lady Vadera; Tarique Ghaffur, who was in the police; Anuj Chande, my friend who is a senior partner in Grant Thornton; and his cousin Her Excellency the High Commissioner for Uganda, Nimisha Madhvani, who is with us here today. I could go on because there are so many examples. This is tremendous, especially when we think that many of these people went through resettlement plans. Their stories and experiences of fleeing and starting a new life over here are moving. That is thanks to the generosity of the wonderful British people, who to this day welcome refugees from Afghanistan and Ukraine. The noble Lord, Lord Popat, started work in a Wimpy bar—and then as an accountant, a successful businessman and a Conservative Party activist—and is now in the House of Lords and a trade envoy. This is phenomenal. In the words of Shailesh Vara, they

“came here frightened, homeless, penniless and with only the clothes on their backs.”—[Official Report, Commons, 6/12/12; col. 1042.]

As the noble Lord, Lord Popat, said, Uganda’s loss has very much been Britain’s gain.

My friend Dr Nik Kotecha wrote an article, “The World Has Changed So Much, Yet So Little, Since the 1972 Ugandan Refugee Crisis”, in which he spoke about leaving with absolutely nothing and knowing what it is “like to go hungry”, which “no child should ever” be. However, despite his sadness—including that about Ukraine—there is still hope. There are 8 million Ukrainian refugees and 25 million displaced people who continue to receive support; look at the support that we have given here, in the way we gave it to the Ugandan Asians. Sadly, he says,

“this won’t be the last refugee crisis”.

My own family comes from the smallest minority community in the world, the Zoroastrian Parsis. We fled Persia 1,000 years ago and were given refuge in India. We are only one in a thousand, but per capita I would say that our achievements make us one of the most successful minority communities in the world—thanks to the host country, India, for what they allowed us to do. I have seen with my own business, Cobra Beer, that I sold my first case not to an Indian restaurant but to an east African Asian corner shop. I have seen the hard work taking place there, including children working above the shop doing their homework while also helping out. As Rishi Sunak has said—which I have said for many years and which we have heard in this debate—the Asian values of family, hard work and education are embodied better by nobody than the Ugandan Asian community. They have integrated; as my father, the late General Bilimoria, said, “Wherever you live in the world, my son, integrate to the best of your abilities, but never forget your roots”. They are also sterling examples of entrepreneurship.

The noble Baroness, Lady Warwick, talked about immigration. Why can the Government not have a revamped Migration Advisory Committee that independently sets the shortage occupation list sector by sector, allowing the economy the immigration that it needs? The Ugandan Asian community has shown clearly and brilliantly that good immigration has been, and will always be, great for this country

Beyond Brexit: Policing, Law Enforcement and Security (EUC Report)

Lord Bilimoria Excerpts

Friday 11th March 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bilimoria (CB)]

My Lords, the security of the country always has been and always must be the number one priority of any Government, so I welcome the European Union Committee report, Beyond Brexit: Policing, Law Enforcement and Security.

Clearly, the trade and co-operation agreement that we negotiated with the European Union is very basic. It is almost the extreme opposite of the recently concluded Australia free trade agreement, which is probably the most comprehensive, wide-ranging, in-depth, modern free trade agreement in the world, covering every aspect. With the TCA, we have a lot to build on.

Part 3 of the TCA on law enforcement and judicial co-operation in criminal matters sets out the detailed, complex arrangements enabling effective co-operation on a range of policing and criminal justice measures. The committee welcomed a lot of the provisions, including the continuation of sharing passenger name record data, continued UK access to EU databases covering fingerprints, DNA and criminal records—these are absolutely essential—and the commitment to the rule of law and the European Convention on Human Rights. All of this is fine, but here is the big “but”: the agreement does not provide the same level of collaboration that existed when the UK was a member state. The best example is that involvement in Eurojust and Europol will no longer include a role in their overall management or strategic direction.

One of the most significant consequences of the UK now being a third country is the loss of access to the Schengen Information System—SIS II. The real-time access that it provides to data, persons, objects of interest, wanted people and missing people was completely and rightly emphasised by the committee. The effectiveness of alternatives comes nowhere near to it. Can the Minister confirm that that is the case and that the Government accept it? Again, the committee rightly said that lots of areas need to be kept under review.

Brexit has been concluded and yet it still comes up time and again, not least because the Northern Ireland protocol still needs to be resolved. The former Canadian Prime Minister Pierre Trudeau once said to his American neighbours:

“Living next to you is in some ways like sleeping with an elephant. No matter how friendly and even-tempered is the beast … one is affected by every twitch and grunt.”


Whether we like it or not, the European Union is by far our biggest trading partner, right on our doorstep, next to us. Having a defence and security relationship is absolutely crucial. The 2021 integrated review of security, defence, development and foreign policy barely mentioned the European Union. Will the Minister confirm that?

As president of the CBI, I would like to focus on the national cyber strategy. I recently chaired a meeting with GCHQ. Why are the Government not doing more to promote the fantastic free resources that exist from GCHQ to help businesses of all sizes make the right decisions and be more prepared and resilient when it comes to cybersecurity? Cyberattacks are devastating, and now, with the Ukraine situation, it is even more likely that we will be hit by them. Will the Government do more to promote these amazing free-of-charge resources?

To conclude, I remember that during the Brexit negotiations I spoke to one of our most senior police officers in the country. This individual said, “If people realised what is at stake when it comes to security in our relationship with the European Union, they would be very concerned.” The Ukraine situation has now exacerbated this. We now need to build on our TCA and on the security relationships we have with the EU. The one word which stood out for me in the pandemic was “collaboration”—it is collaboration that works.

Immigration Rules: Statements of Changes

Lord Bilimoria Excerpts

Thursday 27th May 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bilimoria (CB) [V]]

My Lords, I want to highlight how immigration has been great for Great Britain. I thank the noble Lord, Lord Green, for giving us this opportunity. As an immigrant myself, I have seen that benefit first-hand. I am the first ethnic minority president of the Confederation of British Industry.

I have seen how immigrants helped grow the UK economy. A study from Oxford Economics showed that immigrants have made a positive net contribution to UK GDP. On average, each migrant European worker, for example, will, over the lifespan of their stay, contribute £78,000 more to the economy than British citizens. The majority of migrants who have come to the UK are of working age. Data from the Migration Observatory showed that, in 2020, 16% of the working population was born abroad. Foreign workers bring different skills that have a positive impact on business productivity. They are able to fill skills gaps and labour shortages in the jobs market that would otherwise be left unfilled or taken by underqualified staff. Migrants also fill shortages in the higher-skilled sectors that have fewer specialist individuals, such as in IT, engineering and accounting. Migrants bring specialist knowledge and international experience that improve businesses’ existing products and processes. That allows businesses to do more work in a more effective way by sharing knowledge across teams, which increases profit.

I have seen the power of a diverse workforce in my own business by building Cobra Beer, which is a household name in this country, from scratch with just two people and building a team that became a mini united nation with people from all over the world. They had different backgrounds and different mindsets. That diversity made a buzz and innovation, made us more creative and resulted in high growth.

Migrants’ international connections are highly valued by businesses and allow firms to tap into foreign markets. Deloitte’s surveys have shown that more diverse companies are more innovative. McKinsey’s surveys have shown that the companies that embrace diversity and inclusion are more profitable, with the top quartile being 39% more profitable than the bottom quartile. So immigration works.

The new points-based immigration system is an opportunity for UK business to attract the brightest global talent. The system has many different routes, including a skilled-worker route that will ensure that the best and most skilled workers have the chance to come and work in the UK, and contribute to our society and economy. The system will help create a firm but, we hope, fair system that will contribute to creating a high-wage, high-skilled and high-productivity economy.

However, the reality is, as we have seen at the CBI, that businesses are not engaged with this new points-based system as much as they would have liked to be because of the disruption caused by Covid-19. We are making clear to the Home Office that it should make sure that the system is easy and simple to use for business in time for many more users to begin to engage with the system, and we will be watching that carefully and feeding back to government.

I am president of UKCISA, the UK Council for International Student Affairs. The new graduate visa system launches this year. Last year more than half a million international students came to study at UK universities, many of them studying for masters and PhDs. International students are an export and an import. They bring inward investment and contribute £26 billion to our economy. They are one of the UK’s strongest elements of soft power, with more world leaders educated at British universities than in any other country except for the United States of America.

From this summer onwards, businesses can employ students for up to two years on the post-graduate work visa and three years for PhD students. This gives the students a great opportunity to get work experience. On 4 May, the UK and India announced a young professionals scheme that will allow those aged 18 to 30 from each country to work in the other country for up to two years. This is attractive for business, especially in the IT and technology sectors. It can be used as a means for many highly talented young Indians to take on a wide range of jobs in the UK. Partnerships form part of the UK Government’s commitment to deliver an immigration system that attracts talented individuals from India and around the world, while enhancing UK-India co-operation on ensuring that the system is fair and secure.

Looking ahead to the next academic year, I am chancellor of the University of Birmingham, and we are concerned about the international students coming in, particularly from what might be red-list countries at that time. Will we be able to offer all our international students vaccinations when they come to the UK? I believe that the Government have agreed to this. Can the Minister confirm that all international students will be able to be vaccinated in the UK on arrival, if they have not already been vaccinated? Furthermore, will the Government ensure that international students do not have to quarantine in hotels even if they come from red-list countries? Universities are prepared to make quarantine preparations on their campuses. International students pay so much to study over here, with fees, living costs and travel costs. Spending almost another £2,000 for quarantine is unaffordable. Where is the capacity of the Government to house tens of thousands of internationals students that may be coming from red-list countries at the time? The capacity does not exist. Universities have shown that they can create a Covid-safe environment for their students, including with mass testing. Let us allow them to do that and give confidence to students that when they come to study here in the next academic year they will be in a safe and secure environment at their universities.

To conclude, without immigration, Britain, with just 1% of the world’s population, would not be one of the sixth largest economies in the world. Immigrants have enriched and always will enrich our country in every way.

Security Co-operation

Lord Bilimoria Excerpts

Wednesday 2nd December 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con)]

I reiterate that there will be a mutual loss of capabilities for the UK and the EU in a non-negotiated outcome. I do not think I have made any secret of that in this House. We are therefore working very hard—I know it is late in the day—to secure a negotiated outcome.

[Lord Bilimoria (CB) [V]]

My Lords, the Minister has confirmed that the security of their citizens is the number one priority of the Government. If that is the case, are we going to have access to the European Criminal Records Information System, which we make almost 200,000 requests to in a year? Are we going to have access to the Schengen Information System II, which, as noble Lords have said, has required access of up to 500 million times a year? What about Europol, which was mentioned? What about the European arrest warrant? Does the Minister agree that, deal or no deal, if we do not have these things, they represent a risk to public safety and security?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con)]

I can only admire the noble Lord’s ability to get about seven questions in his one question. Going back to SIS II, which we spoke about earlier, the Commission has stated its view that it is not legally possible for us, as a non-Schengen country, to co-operate through SIS II. As set out in the UK’s published approach to negotiations, we believe an agreement should provide for the fast and effective exchange of criminal records data between the UK and EU individual member states.

Licensing: Closing Time

Lord Bilimoria Excerpts

Tuesday 29th September 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con)]

My Lords, guidance has been issued and the guidelines have become legal obligations. It should not be difficult to comply, but I can understand that from many people’s point of view these things have happened quickly and that they are ever-changing; such is the pattern of this virus.

[Lord Bilimoria (CB) [V]]

My Lords, I declare my various interests and acknowledge that health always comes first. The hospitality industry employs 4 million people and has been one of the hardest hit throughout the pandemic. The British Beer and Pub Association said:

“Make no mistake, a 10 pm curfew will devastate our sector during an already challenging environment for pubs … During the current circumstances every hour of trading is crucial to the survival of pubs—for many this curfew will render their businesses unviable.”


Can the Minister explain on what scientific basis the 10 pm decision was made? I understand that fewer than 5% of new infections come from the hospitality sector, and our trade evidence shows that 10% of drinks are consumed after 10 pm. Will the Government put in place further comprehensive support packages for this sector that really needs help?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con)]

My Lords, there is a general acknowledgement that the sector is struggling with an hour of its business being cut. The scientific basis is that the number of infections is going up, and the Government, through their engagement with SAGE, are thinking of the best ways to tackle the virus while keeping the economy going as best they can.