Covid-19 Update

Debate between Lord Bethell and Lord Mann

Tuesday 6th July 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

I am sympathetic to the noble Lord’s travel arrangements, but I do not philosophically think that harmonisation of all regulations across all the nations of the United Kingdom is necessarily desirable. It is important that people have trust, and sometimes that trust is built on local leadership that takes a different perspective or has different circumstances to try to manage. There has been a large amount of discussion about the differences in the guidance between the nations. My personal experience is that, like DNA, 99% of it is common, with very small differences—although they are inconvenient to handle and manage. I have been travelling up and down the country as well, and, in fact, the consistency has been very large.

[Lord Mann (Non-Afl)]

Until last week, British citizens who were four years old and younger returning to this country were not required to be tested while quarantining. Why was this change made last week, so that four year-olds, three year-olds, two year-olds, one year-olds and newborn babies now require testing in order for fully vaccinated families who have been properly tested and are negative to be able to get out of quarantine? What is the medical evidence that suggests that testing these babies will help?

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

My Lords, I confess that the noble Lord’s question is new to me. I will look into that matter and write to him with an update.

Care Home Occupancy Rate

Debate between Lord Bethell and Lord Mann

Wednesday 28th April 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

My Lords, there is an important area of support for those who decide to have care at home. During the pandemic, we did an enormous amount to ensure that there were infection-safe procedures and to reduce the use of itinerant care workers in order to provide safety for those who were at home. Support for those who choose to be cared for at home should be increased. I do not recognise the idea that the number of beds in local authority care has reduced so far, but I am happy to look into the matter.

[Lord Mann (Non-Afl)]

NHS England and Public Health England’s contingency planning for pandemics was strengthened after the SARS epidemic. Will the Minister put in the Library the minutes and documents that show what the NHS policy was in January 2020 on the transfer of people between care homes and hospitals and between hospitals and care homes during a pandemic?

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

My Lords, NHS minutes are published as a routine matter, of course. I would be happy to write to the noble Lord with a link to the right minutes.

World Health Organization: Pandemics

Debate between Lord Bethell and Lord Mann

Tuesday 9th March 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

The noble Earl refers to the important role that the WHO plays. Of course, we are all frustrated sometimes with our multilateral organisations, but the noble Earl quite rightly alludes to the dependence that many countries have on the advice, counsel and practical support that organisations such as the WHO provide. That is why we want the WHO to step up to its responsibilities, why we have instituted a major reform programme recommendation, and why we are extremely hopeful that the WHO steps up.

[Lord Mann (Non-Afl)]

Will the WHO have a specific input and a direct voice in the G7 deliberations?

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

My Lords, the WHO is not a sitting member of the G7, but we have a representative attending our health track in Oxford, and we have been in dialogue with them directly with our agenda on the G7.

Covid-19: Vaccination

Debate between Lord Bethell and Lord Mann

Wednesday 20th January 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

My Lords, I do not quite agree with the premise of the question, which is the concept of being partially vaccinated. When you get your first vaccination shot, you are vaccinated, your body has been primed, B cells make the antibodies and you learn how to fight the disease. That is categoric. Where the noble Baroness absolutely has a point is that it is an uncomfortable truth that when we lean in to the virus, it will seek to escape and mutate, and that is the moment of absolute highest risk for the country. That is why we are trying to move as quickly as we humanly and possibly can: there is a moment in time, an opportunity to get the vaccine out to as many people as possible to avoid the mutation throwing up variants that escape our vaccine.

[Lord Mann (Non-Afl)]

We heard a few voices last spring and summer suggesting that the National Health Service was not good enough and that a privatised service would have been better in dealing with the pandemic. They are remarkably silent now. Will the Minister join me in the celebrations across this country at the moment of the brilliance of the National Health Service and the fact that people being vaccinated are going in with a smile on their face, being welcomed by people—volunteers and staff—with a smile on their face, all saying how brilliant our National Health Service is?

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

My Lords, I am enormously grateful for the testimony of the noble Lord, but I would probably put it slightly differently. Listen, we are in Act I, and I do not think it is quite the right moment to take curtain calls and bows just yet. The NHS has stepped up to this challenge absolutely magnificently, but there is still a huge amount to do and to get through. In addition to the praise that the noble Lord rightly gave the NHS, I also pay tribute to other parts of government, and particularly to the Army, local authorities and the private sector, which contributed the vaccine in the first place, all of which have worked together in a great spirit of collaboration. It is only through that spirit of collaboration that we have been able to deliver what we have.

Covid-19: Vaccinations

Debate between Lord Bethell and Lord Mann

Wednesday 13th January 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

My Lords, that is a very good reminder. I will be glad to return to the department and check that the bilingual material is as she asks, and I will write to her with the details.

[Lord Mann (Non-Afl) [V]]

My Lords, the NHS has been put in charge of this and is delivering big time, and everyone I speak to is delighted about the way the rollout is going. When we move into the next phase, will workplaces be targeted, so that they are able to do their own logistics and get thousands done at a time, quickly, cheaply and easily?

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

My Lords, that is a decision for the NHS deployment team. I do not know the precise answer but frankly, based on experience I would guess that NHS environments are probably the focus for the deployment—that the focus is on where NHS staff can have safe, hygienic environments, rather than on workplaces. However, I will take the noble Lord’s idea back to the department and write to him to see whether that is being considered.

Covid-19: Vaccinations

Debate between Lord Bethell and Lord Mann

Thursday 17th December 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

The noble Lord makes the point well. He is right that there are undoubtedly communities that conventional NHS outreach has not got to; we have learned that fact during Covid. Our immediate priority is to reach the over-80s and ensure that the deployment programme works for those groups that are most at risk. We will be turning our attention to the groups that he describes, but I cannot avoid the fact that, if you are going to get a medical service, you need to be registered with a GP. That is something that some people are going to have to make part of their life.

[Lord Mann (Non-Afl)]

The registered GP services where I live are banging on the door for this vaccine at the moment. What is the latest date for a universal rollout to every primary care area in the country, making the vaccine available to those who are vulnerable?

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

I completely understand the noble Lord’s impatience to know that. I am afraid that I cannot provide him with a precise date. One reason why is because we do not know the availability of the other vaccines. As he knows, the AstraZeneca vaccine, the Moderna vaccine and three others are all in the pipeline at the moment. If they get authorisation from the MHRA, that will completely change our deployment programme. At the moment, we are putting in place contingency measures for an uplift in our deployment should any of those be authorised; that will lead to a major growth in our deployment plans.

Face-to-Face Medical Appointments

Debate between Lord Bethell and Lord Mann

Thursday 19th November 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

The noble Lord is entirely right. Without doubt, there are very many circumstances in which a face-to-face appointment is absolutely necessary, whether that is for a physical analysis, for the comfort of the patient or to check out other symptoms that may not be apparent from a telephone call. However, there are other people for whom telephone appointments are helpful. The Royal College of Physicians found that 20% of patients over 65 felt worse after an in-person appointment because of the stress involved. But the noble Lord is entirely right that guidelines do need to be evolved in order to reflect the changes, and there may be a moment when the GP contract needs to be revisited.

[Lord Mann (Non-Afl)]

Iceland has better survival rates for strokes by using telemedicine for decisions in acute care on thrombolysis. Will the Government not take this opportunity to move primary care far more into the modern era by encouraging a far greater use of telemedicine, and not simply hark back to the past as we learn from the experiences of Covid?

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

The noble Lord makes an incredibly interesting parallel with Iceland. It is not one that I knew, but I will take care to look into it, because it is instructive and informative. He is right to say that Covid has demonstrated the power of telemedicine, and we are keen to learn that lesson. We do not want the elastic band of old practice to snap back to where it was before. To reflect the words of a noble Lord who spoke previously, there will be occasions when tele- medicine is right. The key is getting the blend correct and ensuring that the right format is used in the right circumstances.

Covid-19: Information Sharing with Police Forces

Debate between Lord Bethell and Lord Mann

Tuesday 20th October 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

My Lords, the data collected by PHE for the test and trace service is held, as I said, by the Contract Tracing and Advisory Service database—the CTAS database—and it will be provided to the police on request. It is not a question of a wholesale sharing of all data. The data that can be shared with the police are the recorded name and contact details of an individual who has been instructed to self-isolate, the date on which they were told to self-isolate and the date on which the period of self-isolation ends. No testing data or health data are shared with the police at all.

[Lord Mann (Non-Afl)]

Do we have a defined national police strategy on the policing of breaches of self-isolation, or will we see a patchwork of implementation by different chief constables across the country?

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

I thank the noble Lord for his question. The intention of this legislation is threefold: first, to increase public understanding of the importance of self-isolation; secondly, to help to support people to comply with self-isolation by making sure that they understand the consequences of breaking those rules; and, thirdly, to introduce fixed penalty notices for those who do not follow the rules. Our intention is not to enforce a surveillance culture around this; it is instead to leave it to members of the public to take it into their own hands as to whether they would like to share instances of breaches with the police, and to give the police an opportunity to follow up those reports in a timely, accurate and efficient fashion.

Covid-19: Great Barrington Declaration

Debate between Lord Bethell and Lord Mann

Tuesday 13th October 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

My Lords, I pay tribute to the council in Pendle which, as those in the Chamber know, has done an enormous amount to fight Covid infection and has been exemplary in its approach to containment. However, it is a sad truth that the infection is spreading, particularly among the young, and making its way through the generations. You have only to look at the hospitalisation rates today to see that we will have a serious problem as the lag is complete; in a few weeks’ time, those rates will go up. The Government are taking prompt action, which is tough and unpleasant for those involved. I deeply regret the possibility that Pendle may be hit by harder restrictions, but this is a reasonable approach and it is done to save lives.

[Lord Mann (Non-Afl)]

My Lords, will people be healthier this winter locked up on Zoom, playing computer games and watching Netflix, or out in the fresh air, on the rock, hills and footpaths of England in a socially distanced manner?

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

The noble Lord is entirely right to champion the role of fitness, exercise and fresh air, and this Government are doing an enormous amount to try to keep sports going during current arrangements. He is entirely right that for families, young people and those used to the outdoors, the prospect of being locked up presents a huge challenge. No one is under any illusion: the prospect of a long winter under restrictions is deeply challenging and unpleasant. However, I celebrate and totally endorse his advocacy of fresh air and exercise.

Covid-19

Debate between Lord Bethell and Lord Mann

Wednesday 8th July 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell]

The noble Lord is entirely right to emphasise the importance of flu vaccination. We are very focused on getting the right amount of flu vaccination stocks and encouraging take-up once the WHO has nominated the right vaccination and we have stocks of it in this country.

[Lord Mann (Non-Afl) [V]]

Small sports clubs are particularly vulnerable to the lack of people paying to go in. When will the Government come forward with plans to allow small numbers of people to pay to be spectators at sports such as football or rugby league, socially distancing in the same way as is now allowed in cinemas, pubs and restaurants?

Covid-19: Test and Trace App

Debate between Lord Bethell and Lord Mann

Monday 22nd June 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell]

My Lords, I do not think anyone needs to apologise for their efforts. I have already paid tribute to the teams at NHSX and NHS Digital for the incredibly hard work they have put in. I cannot disguise how complex and challenging are the issues we face in this area. Some of the best Governments in the world are wrestling with them and they have not been overcome in many territories. I am extremely proud of our achievements to date and look forward to more in the future.

[Lord Mann (Non-Afl) [V]]

What about the pensioners? Half of Germans say they are not going to use the new app and the German system is underpinned by local health boards ringing up people to trace and test. Why are we not doing the same thing at the local level?

[Lord Bethell]

The noble Lord, Lord Mann, is entirely right. One of our learnings—and a point made by many noble Lords—is that, ultimately, the most effective response is the local one. We are at a moment in the epidemic when local outbreaks are what we fear most. The way to handle those is through local contact and tracing. That is currently done by a large tracing team, putting in telephone calls which prove extremely effective. The uptake of the isolation protocol has been extremely high.

Covid-19: R Rate and Lockdown Measures

Debate between Lord Bethell and Lord Mann

Tuesday 9th June 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell [V]]

I share the noble Baroness’s tribute to the nation’s carers. This week is Carers Week, and it is quite right that the House pays tribute to the contribution of all those who have looked after loved ones and neighbours in the manner she described so well. Support for carers has been at the front of our minds, but she rightly reminds us that we could do more in a second wave, and we are looking hard at ways of developing that support in the months to come.

[Lord Mann (Non-Afl)]

What discussions have Ministers had with their German counterparts about the success of the German test and trace system?

[Lord Bethell [V]]

I have conversations with the German Government, medical authorities and diagnostic industry on a very regular basis. I have a fortnightly call with my counterpart in the German health system. It is true that Germany had a more developed and more local testing facility than the British at the beginning of the epidemic, but since then we have built up our capacity dramatically and we regularly do more tests than our German counterparts at the moment. The testing regime being developed is already delivering fantastic results that match those of many countries.

Covid-19 Update

Debate between Lord Bethell and Lord Mann

Monday 16th March 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell]

Yes, it would.

[Lord Mann (Non-Afl)]

My Lords, will the Government be giving precise advice to agencies dealing with the homeless? Will care workers on zero-hours contracts who need to go into self-isolation be paid by anybody? Are the Government relying on the House of Lords to set the best example in following the Chief Medical Officer’s advice?

[Lord Bethell]

On the provisions for those on zero-hours contracts, that is an area that is particularly knotty and difficult. It is absolutely the focus of the current negotiations on statutory sick pay and other provisions; it is one we care very much about getting right. As for the advice for those in the House of Lords, I cannot repeat the advice of the CMO more times than I have already. I very much hope that everyone will follow it.