NHS Update

Debate between Lord Bethell and Lord Cormack

Thursday 22nd July 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell (Con) [V]]

My Lords, I have heard the noble Lord on this point two or three times and he makes the argument extremely well and persuasively. As he knows, a huge budget of the NHS goes on the workforce; essentially, the NHS is a mobilised healthcare workforce. It is intrinsic to the success of the NHS that we manage our workforce correctly. There are substantial workforce transformation programmes in place at the moment, including the People Plan, and a huge recruitment drive is going on, including the creation of a much clearer employer brand, which has landed very well among the workforce generally. However, I take the noble Lord’s point. I am not the workforce Minister but I will take it back to my colleague Helen Whateley in the department and ask her for her consideration.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, I hope that my noble friend, who deserves a real holiday, will accept that it would have been far better and more honest had the pay award been made in an Oral rather than a Written Statement. We all send our warm wishes to the noble Lord, Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe, for a speedy recovery. However, does not his story underline the need for clarity in Oral Statements? I put to my noble friend last week the idea of statements in all the newspapers which would be clear, cohesive and coherent. Is that idea still being followed up, as he promised it would be?

[Lord Bethell (Con) [V]]

My Lords, I have followed it up. We have invested a huge amount in our statements. This takes up a large bandwidth for our broadcasters and of the advertising budget of the Cabinet Office and the department—we could not have spent any more money on advertising than we have done to try to get our messages across. However, some of these messages are difficult to understand and sometimes difficult to accept. We all wish that the vaccine was as clear-cut and emphatic as are the vaccines for polio or the other blockbuster vaccines. However, as the noble Lord, Lord Brooke, just described, and as poor old Sajid Javid is currently feeling, two jabs do not guarantee that you will not be infected and infectious. However, neither of them is in hospital and neither of them is suffering from severe disease. The message is nuanced: the vaccines work, will reduce transmission and will help us to get this country out of the disease, but people will still have to proceed with caution, isolate when they are in contact with those with the disease and protect themselves from transmission with masks and social distancing.

Covid-19

Debate between Lord Bethell and Lord Cormack

Thursday 15th July 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, would my noble friend give consideration to putting a full-page advertisement in every paper, with guidance? This must be clear, coherent and consistent. Would he also—I am sorry to press him on this again—tell me when this consultation over care-home workers will conclude? President Macron has already decided that this will happen in France. A third of the people who died were in care homes; they are the most vulnerable of the vulnerable. It is essential that those who look after their intimate needs are themselves vaccinated.

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

My Lords, I will definitely consider the idea of a full-page advert, and I am grateful for that suggestion. I would also be very interested to receive a submission from my noble friend to the consultation, and, if he would like to copy me in on it, I would be glad to make sure that it gets through to the right people.

Covid-19 Update

Debate between Lord Bethell and Lord Cormack

Thursday 8th July 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

I completely accept the question on whether we are moving too soon; it is a perfectly reasonable question. The counter suggestion is this. Say we waited until 85% of the population is double vaccinated, which would be in, say, October—would that necessarily be a better time to do this, when the NHS is at its most stretched and the winter conditions and cold encourage the spread of the virus? We have looked at it really carefully and, on the balance of risk, today is the right day to make these decisions.

On saliva testing, I pay tribute to those who are working here in the UK on the LAMP system, which we have prioritised with a huge amount of investment, particularly for those from special needs schools who find swab testing uncomfortable or really do not like to do it. We hope to report back but I am afraid to say that saliva testing has so far proved to be quite a difficult challenge, and it has not met all the tests that we would have liked it to have done.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, declaring an interest, I ask my noble friend to guarantee that all octogenarians will have a booster jab in the autumn? I apologise for returning to this, but can he guarantee, on the Floor of this House today, that all care workers in care homes will be obliged to be vaccinated no later than September?

Covid-19 Update

Debate between Lord Bethell and Lord Cormack

Tuesday 29th June 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, if we are to return to normality on 19 July, as the new Secretary of State has stressed in the other House is his aim, can my noble friend assure me that the question asked by the noble Earl, Lord Clancarty, will be properly and effectively answered by a return to normality with choirs, inside and out? Can he also assure me—and I am sorry to press him on this yet again—that, by the end of August at the latest, all care home workers will have to have been vaccinated?

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

My Lords, I am grateful for the opportunity to address both points. On singing, I have heard loud and clear the points made by many noble Lords, particularly my noble friend Lord Cormack. The right honourable Secretary of State for Health said very clearly yesterday that it was his aspiration that we should return to normal as soon as possible and that he himself would be joining in the singing when it happens. I completely echo that point.

On social care workers, I am advised that we are working as hard as we can to get through the very delicate employment law and the consultations necessary. I know my noble friend would wish that this could all happen a lot more quickly, but the way in which we go about the treatment of our workers needs to respect their human rights, and that is why it is important that we do this in a thoughtful way. It is also necessary to build trust in the vaccine and I do not think that there would be anything gained by in any way pre-empting those processes.

Covid-19 Update

Debate between Lord Bethell and Lord Cormack

Tuesday 15th June 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

The noble Lord is entirely right to ask about the route out. That is exactly what we hope to be thinking about very soon. The criteria will include how much vaccination we have here in the UK and the efficacy of that vaccine against all the variants present in the world. They will also include the presence of variants in the other countries; there is a stepped process for analysing that. Lastly, they will include the infection rates in those countries. We hope to be able to take concrete steps on that shortly. The treaties necessary to have mutual vaccine recognition are being discussed at a high level as we speak.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, my noble friend will not be surprised if I ask him whether he can guarantee that, by 19 July, all care home workers will have been vaccinated. But could he also answer this question? Why is he allowed to go down to his local pub and sing “Roll Out the Barrel” but he cannot go into his local church and sing “Guide Me, O Thou Great Redeemer”?

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

I completely accept the challenge. These anomalies exist and he is entirely right to beat up the Minister for this kind of stuff. It is unbelievably difficult to write guidelines that touch so many different parts of life, and I would not pretend for a moment that there is 100% consistency in everything that is done. But I have made the point emphatically: these things are done to save lives and protect people from infection. They are done with a heavy heart, having looked at the scientific evidence, with a sense of regret that we are letting down those with a passion for singing and religious worship, and in the hope that we can get rid of them very soon. We are taking concrete steps as quickly as we can to deliver the vaccines. In terms of care homes, as he knows, there is a consultation in process and that consultation is working its way through.

Covid-19 Update

Debate between Lord Bethell and Lord Cormack

Tuesday 8th June 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

I am enormously grateful to the noble Baroness for raising in the same breath the importance of secure data arrangements and the question of what we are doing on long Covid, because we could not do what we are doing on long Covid if we did not have access to GP records. The truth is that we are doing an enormous amount. Long Covid, as the noble Baroness knows, is touching more than 1 million patients here in the UK. We have got NICE to take steps to put in place a really clear clinical definition. The NHS has mobilised Covid-specific clinics, which we acknowledge are under pressure but which are an extremely valuable resource for understanding this dreadful condition. NIHR has mobilised research resources, and I pay particular tribute to Great Ormond Street and its CLoCk research project, which is looking at long Covid among children—something which of course concerns us all. Lastly, the royal colleges have done an enormous amount to present both new data and training tools to their members and to feedback information from the front line. Long Covid will be one of the lasting and most concerning aspects of this dreadful pandemic, but we are putting everything we can into dealing with the consequences.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, may I once again raise with my noble friend an issue that I have been returning to for some months now? When are we going to ensure that all those who attend to the most intimate needs of residents of care homes are vaccinated? There are still far too many who have refused vaccination; it should be a condition of employment that they are vaccinated. My noble friend has indicated sympathy with this point of view, but nothing has yet been done.

While I am on my feet, as we have plenty of time and we are allowed to raise two points, why was the advice to choral societies changed after 17 May? Suddenly, 2 million singers and 40,000 choirs can only rehearse with six people indoors. This has caused enormous distress and the cancellation of many performances. It has damaged morale in places such as Lincoln very significantly.

[Lord Bethell]

I pay tribute to my noble friend. He was an early bird in championing the vaccination of social care workers. He has made his point clearly and has definitely influenced policy in this area. I would like to reassure him that it is simply not the case that nothing has been done. A review is going through the matter at the moment. This is not something, I am afraid, that could be implemented by government fiat; it is important that we go through the process, not least to maintain people’s trust. One of the aspects of the successful vaccine rollout is that we have not behaved abruptly. We have not sought to admonish or to demonise anyone who is hesitant about taking the vaccine. Instead, we have sought to engage, and that is the reason why we are going through an extremely thorough review and engagement programme. I completely understand my noble friend’s frustration that this cannot be done more quickly, but I would like to reassure him that, on balance, this is the way in which to get the task done in the most impactful and effective way that we can think of.

On choral societies, I completely sympathise with my noble friend’s point. I was at Garsington Opera on Sunday, and my spirits were lifted by the sound of the singing in that wonderful place. I have only the assessment of the PHE officials to hand; it has become clear that the dangerous presence of aerosols in the air has been the really effective transmission mechanism for this dreadful disease. It is just an unavoidable and inescapable truth that people singing their heads off will fill a room with loads of infectious aerosol, and that is the reason why this decision has been made. It is regrettable, and I understand the consequences and I have been contacted by many who are concerned and affected by it. But I would like to reassure my noble friend that it has been done for the best reasons and for, I believe, very strong scientific reasons.

Osimertinib Cancer Treatment

Debate between Lord Bethell and Lord Cormack

Tuesday 18th May 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

My Lords, there will be an occasional moment when there are slight differences between the EMA and MHRA; we are not anticipating them to be huge and, in this case, we are anticipating them to be a matter of weeks while one approval does not quite overlap with another. The UK Government and the MHRA are working closely with the Northern Ireland Executive and all relevant stakeholders to ensure that the supply of medicines to all UK patients, including those in Northern Ireland, remains smooth, seamless and efficient.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, I thank my noble friend for his calm and reassuring Answer, but does he accept that the real problem is the one pointed to by the noble Baroness, Lady Thornton, namely, that of waiting lists? Can we perhaps devise some sort of Nightingale solution to bring forward and have people seen in a special place or special places? The real danger is that people will be diagnosed too late, and then, whatever the drugs, they will die.

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

I endorse my noble friend’s recommendations. He is entirely right that the old method of diagnostics, which relied a lot on patients attending diagnostic appointments in hospital, feels very out of date after the pandemic. I note the review on diagnostics by Professor Sir Mike Richards, which recommended community hubs, and has a huge amount of support within the NHS. We need to build up our diagnostic capability, bring it closer to where people live and make it more approachable so that people get early interventions.

Covid-19: Update

Debate between Lord Bethell and Lord Cormack

Tuesday 20th April 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

My Lords, the Cabinet Office is reviewing whether Covid status certification could play a role in reopening our economy, reducing restrictions on social contact and improving safety. That work is under way. The noble Lord refers to the importance of social justice and civic rights, and he is entirely right to do so; those are exactly the kinds of issues that the Cabinet Office is weighing up. We need to look at everything that the technical toolkit can provide us with to fight this virus and any others that may emerge from the back of the bat cave. We are trying to avoid the kind of social, health and economic impacts that these 21st-century pandemics have on our country. Technology such as Covid certificates can provide an important defence mechanism.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, my noble friend knows that I have repeatedly raised the subject of care home workers. I am grateful for his responses and for the letter that I have had from our honourable friend Nadhim Zahawi in the other place. However, in that letter, the Minister for vaccines acknowledges the vulnerability of people in care homes and that they can be a source of spreading the virus. I urge that an early decision is made to ensure that care home workers, who attend to the most intimate needs of their often extremely frail patients, are vaccinated. To compel them to be vaccinated may seem a bit draconian, but, if we are concerned about the containment of these viruses and their spread, surely being vaccinated is not too high a price to ask care home workers to pay.

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

My Lords, I hear the message from my noble friend loud and clear. Vaccination rates among care home workers in some communities are just not high enough. The Government have acknowledged that point, and that is why we have launched the consultation. We must be fair to the social care workers who work so hard, looking after those we love and care about. We have put this consultation in place to understand the most thoughtful, fair and meaningful way to go about this knotty problem. The consultation is moving as quickly as it can, and I assure my noble friend that everything is being done to expedite this matter.

Health and Social Care Update

Debate between Lord Bethell and Lord Cormack

Monday 22nd March 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

My Lords, the noble Baroness is right to say that the Serum Institute of India is the world’s biggest vaccine manufacturer by far and we are enormously grateful for the strong relationship that this country has with the institute and the contribution that it is making to our vaccine rollout. The supply chains for the world’s vaccine production are unbelievably complicated, with ingredients and individual supply items coming from many different countries for each and every vaccine. It is not possible to provide a running commentary on the progress of each one; nor would it be wise to have a bilateral conversation with the country of origin of every vaccine ingredient. Our relations with India, America and the EU will, I am sure, return to the spirit of partnership and the respect of contract law that have characterised those relationships in the past.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, I shall quote from the Statement:

“Last Monday, we reopened care homes to visitors, with a careful policy of a single regular visitor … we hear each day of more and more residents safely reunited with people they love.”


My wife and I have a dear friend whose mother is 99. She is indeed excited at the prospect of holding her mother’s hand for the first time in a year, but that excitement is overshadowed by the knowledge that several of the workers in the care home where her mother is being looked after have refused to take the vaccine. I urge my noble friend yet again to press forward on this.

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

My Lords, I hear my noble friend’s message loud and clear and he has made the case both persuasively and thoughtfully. He is a little ahead of events. It is not possible for us to put in any form of certification or mandation until the vaccine has been offered to absolutely everyone in the country. However, he will know that the Cabinet Office has a review process in place that is looking at exactly the dilemma he has spoken to.

Covid-19 Update

Debate between Lord Bethell and Lord Cormack

Thursday 4th March 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

It was a regrettable administrative oversight; it was one that the Secretary of State has made it clear he would do again if it meant saving lives. I am not aware of it having reached the Cabinet.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, we should all be enormously grateful to those who have made the vaccination programme such a success. In our thanks, we should not forget Kate Bingham and her team. However, there are still inconsistencies. During the last lockdown, pre-vaccine, we could have services properly distanced in Lincoln Cathedral with a choir and a congregation. Post-vaccine, we cannot. Post-vaccine, we are still—I am back to my old hobbyhorse—allowing care home workers to attend to the most intimate needs of their patients having refused a vaccine. Can we have some consistency, please? I am grateful to my noble friend.

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

I am grateful to my noble friend for his question and I echo his comments on Kate Bingham. However, my Lords, we are not post-vaccine; we are, at best, mid-vaccine. Vaccinating 20 million people is an enormous achievement but there is a hell of a long way to go. There is still an enormous amount of infection in this country; nearly half a million people, or thereabouts, have the disease. There are variants of concern being generated in this country, such as the Kent virus, and overseas, such as the Manaus virus. Until we are truly through this, we have to show restraint and make uncomfortable decisions, and we must ensure that the NHS is preserved and we save lives. That, I am afraid, remains our priority.

Covid-19: Brazilian Variant

Debate between Lord Bethell and Lord Cormack

Tuesday 2nd March 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, at the outset, my noble friend said that the Government wanted to use all means at their disposal to combat the spread of all the variants and mutations. I refer to a point I made last week. One means at the Government’s disposal is to ensure that all those who work in care homes are vaccinated. It is quite wrong that they can refuse it and then attend to the most intimate needs of their patients

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

My Lords, I remind my noble friend that we have some mandatory vaccination already in place in the health service; those who perform operations and other intimate health interventions are required to have hepatitis and other vaccinations, for instance, so there is a precedent for what he talks about. However, it is a huge step, which impacts people’s personal liberty and choices, to make vaccination mandatory for more than a million social care workers. My noble friend makes a persuasive argument, which is why the Cabinet Office is looking at exactly this sort of matter; there is a strong public health argument for mandatory vaccination. Given that we have not rolled out vaccination across the whole population yet, it is premature to make that decision today, but we are considering it carefully.

Covid-19: Vaccination Programme

Debate between Lord Bethell and Lord Cormack

Wednesday 24th February 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

My Lords, the Chief Medical Officer was entirely right. As the noble Baroness probably knows, there are already important requirements on health care workers who, for instance, do surgery or are in certain risky clinical situations to have the right vaccines, hepatitis being one in particular. Having up-to-date vaccines is a condition of engagement for some medical staff. The noble Baroness is right to raise the question of social care. We are looking at the right policy in that area. We want to tread carefully and to take social care workers with us. We are aware of the risks in social care, but we do not want to provide barriers for employment. Getting that decision right will be one of the most important things that we do.

[Lord Cormack (Con) [V]]

My Lords, I would like to follow on from that. My friend has a 99 year-old mother in a care home and she is naturally very glad at the prospect of more frequent and slightly less distanced visits. She has not held her mother’s hand for over a year. She is deeply concerned that some of the care workers in the home, who have to attend to some of her mother’s most intimate needs, have declined vaccination. Should not the rule in care homes be, in the words of a recent Times leader, “no jab, no job”?

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

My noble friend puts it very bluntly. At this stage of the rollout, when the vaccine has not been made available to everyone, it is too early to make that kind of decision. However, he makes the case well and I hear it loud and clear.

Covid-19 Update

Debate between Lord Bethell and Lord Cormack

Thursday 4th February 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

I reassure the noble Baroness that we are absolutely putting the arrangements for pupils in the hands of schools themselves, because they know best how to look after their pupils and their teachers. The role of test and trace is to provide testing facilities and the resources to make schools safe, but it is up to the Department for Education, the local authorities and the schools themselves to protect those who need special arrangements, either because they are shielding or because they have other needs.

[Lord Cormack (Con) [V]]

My Lords, I am sure that my noble friend will agree that everything possible must be done to ensure that this is the last national lockdown. To that end, is it not important that all information on vaccines, however sensitive it may be, is shared with Opposition leaders, if necessary, on Privy Council terms? Would it not help to avoid confrontations inside and outside the Chamber of the other place if the Prime Minister and the leader of the Opposition were to have a scheduled weekly meeting?

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

My Lords, they do have a scheduled weekly meeting: it is called PMQs. It is up to either side to decide how well it goes. To reassure my noble friend, we publish absolutely everything on the vaccine. We even publish the formula of the vaccine itself. The data is shared with local authorities—it is out there on the internet—and we could not be more transparent if we tried. We have worked very closely with the Information Commissioner; we have a massive data analytical team; and we are as open as we possibly can be because we believe that trust in the vaccine is absolutely essential to uptake, and therefore it is in our interests to take an open and transparent approach.

Covid-19: Vaccination

Debate between Lord Bethell and Lord Cormack

Wednesday 20th January 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Cormack]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what plans they have in place to ensure that no one has to wait more than three months for a second dose of a COVID-19 vaccination.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Health and Social Care (Lord Bethell) (Con)]

My Lords, we are absolutely committed to making sure that everyone gets two doses, so if they have received their Pfizer first dose, they will get a Pfizer second dose within 12 weeks of the first one. Similarly, if they have had their AstraZeneca first dose, they will get their AstraZeneca second dose within 12 weeks. The four UK CMOs and the JCVI agree that prioritising the first vaccine dose will protect the greatest number of at-risk people overall in the shortest period of time.

[Lord Cormack (Con) [V]]

My Lords, naturally I thank my noble friend for that Answer. I have just returned from the very efficiently run county showground vaccination centre outside Lincoln, where I have had my first dose and have been given a date for my second. My noble friend has certainly reassured me on the Government’s determination both to give the same vaccine and at the right time. However, is he aware of the findings in Israel, where there has been an extremely impressive rollout of vaccination, which have cast considerable doubt on the wisdom of delaying the second dose? This has caused a great deal of concern, not least in your Lordships’ House, voiced by the noble Baronesses, Lady Boothroyd and Lady Bakewell, among others. Can he please give us some reassurance that there is no danger of diminishing the efficacy of the vaccine by delaying the second dose?

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

I am extremely pleased to hear the update from my noble friend, and I thank all those in Lincoln who were contributing to his effective vaccination and his second appointment, which is very reassuring. I reassure him that, on the Israeli numbers, Sir Patrick Vallance, the Chief Scientific Adviser, has been very clear—he was on the media round this morning. The Israelis looked at a very specific time period—14 days—and a very specific age group. This is very different to the analysis done by the JCVI and the MHRA, which looked at all age groups over a much broader period. The efficacy of immunity from days 10 to 21 is thought to be 89%. That is a very considerable and impactful effect, and I have spoken to the noble Baroness, Lady Boothroyd, to reassure her on that matter.

Department of Health and Social Care: Unpaid Advisers

Debate between Lord Bethell and Lord Cormack

Tuesday 17th November 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

The noble Baroness makes her points extremely well. She rightly points out that we take advice from a wide variety of people. The only reason that we are talking about this today is because a transparency register is made of my appointments, which is published on GOV.UK and I would be glad to share the website link with anyone who would like to look at it more closely. The appointments of unpaid advisers follow the guidance on direct appointments from the Cabinet Office. We are scrupulous in our adherence to that guidance, and we will continue to be so in any future appointments we make.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, in view of what has been said by the Minister, I am extremely sympathetic to him. Could he publish a full list of all those who have given of their time, talents and money at a time of great crisis? Could he place a copy of that in the Library of your Lordships’ House?

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

My Lords, I am not sure if I can make the commitment that my noble friend asks. It is a reasonable commitment and I take it in the spirit with which it is meant, but there have been literally hundreds of people—not all of them formal, not all of them documented—who have stepped forward in the spirit that the noble Baroness, Lady Jones, has spoken of to try and contribute to our thinking, our connections and our ability to respond to this pandemic. That is a long roll of honour, of which I am extremely proud. I will give some thought to the way in which we do it, but doing it in a formal fashion in the way my noble friend describes may not be feasible or approachable.

Contact Tracing: Personal Privacy

Debate between Lord Bethell and Lord Cormack

Thursday 11th June 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell [V]]

My Lords, the data that an individual puts on the app is entirely voluntary. No data is held for more than 28 days until somebody takes a test. Once that test has taken place, the individual has the opportunity to upload further data. That data is held for clinical trials and to help us understand the epidemic. There is the opportunity for us to delete all that data at the end of the epidemic, and that assessment will be made at the right time.

[Lord Cormack (Con) [V]]

My Lords, like many, I pay tribute to my noble friend for his indefatigable hard work over these past weeks, but does he accept that, following the events of three weeks ago, there has been an erosion of public trust and confidence? It has been seen on the beaches and in demonstrations. Further, does he accept that it is absolutely essential that these tests are conducted in such a way that there is total public confidence in their probity? Can he give me an assurance that everything possible will be done to ensure that no vital personal information is misused in any way?

Covid-19: Testing

Debate between Lord Bethell and Lord Cormack

Thursday 14th May 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell]

Testing in care homes is absolutely a number one priority. We have massively ramped up testing: we are now running it at 30,000 tests a day. We will test 300,000 care home residents and 500,000 care home staff before mid-June. That will make a massive difference, but we will not stop there. The ongoing and regular testing of both residents and staff will be a core part of our test and trace programme.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, with the encouraging announcement of the ending of virtual proceedings in the other place and in the hope that we will not be too far behind, can my noble friend assure me that adequate, permanent testing facilities will be available for all who work in the Palace of Westminster and all Members of both Houses?

[Lord Bethell]

My Lords, workplace testing for not just Peers but all workers is an important part of our return-to-work strategy. We need to work with employers of all kinds and the diagnostics industry to put in solutions so that people can go back to work with confidence that they are not infectious and that the person sitting next to them is not infected.

Covid-19 Update

Debate between Lord Bethell and Lord Cormack

Monday 16th March 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

Will my noble friend say a word or two about the Bill that is going to come before both Houses of Parliament? Is he effectively saying that those of us who happen to be in our 70s or 80s will not be allowed to take part in that debate, or is this merely advice? Could he also tell me whether there are testing facilities within the Palace of Westminster?

[Lord Bethell]

The Bill will arrive on Thursday and the plan will be published then. In terms of those who wish to attend the House, all I can do is share the advice of the CMO, which is very simple and very clear, but it is down to the choices and decisions of those here as to how they wish to conduct their travel and attendance arrangements.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Bethell]

My noble friend will be reassured to know that guidance for education settings was published a couple of hours ago. This includes advice to universities both on travel and on what to do when someone develops the symptoms of coronavirus. I would be glad to place a copy of this in the Library or send it to any noble Lords who would like to see it.

[Lord Cormack]

My noble friend did not answer the question about the testing facility within the Palace of Westminster.

[Lord Bethell]

The noble Lord is entirely right. To be honest, I do not know the answer to that question, but I would be glad to find it out and write to him with the details.

Coronavirus (COVID-19)

Debate between Lord Bethell and Lord Cormack

Tuesday 3rd March 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, one issue that has not been raised is public transport. There is no more dangerous place than public transport when infections are rife. Has thought been given to restricting the number of people who can travel on buses and trains—perhaps one in two seats? That could be of some help if distance is an important factor.

[Lord Bethell]

My Lords, this is exactly the type of dilemma being considered by SAGE and the CMO. It will be the focus of work between the Department of Health and the Department for Transport.

Wuhan Coronavirus

Debate between Lord Bethell and Lord Cormack

Wednesday 26th February 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell]

The noble Lord, Lord Campbell-Savours, makes his point extremely well. I cannot believe that there is anyone in this House who does not have a relative, friend or loved one who is in the same situation. When we look closely at this virus, it causes enormous anxiety. It is part of the Government’s role to ensure not only that information is provided and distributed effectively and energetically, in the way he described, but that this is done in a reasonable, paced way that does not create panic and alarm. The Government lean towards early action on the virus, pre-empting issues and having the right information, data and measures in place. That has been the philosophy of our response from the very beginning. The communications that he described, as did the noble Baroness, Lady Brinton, are exactly the kind of materials that we are working on right now. They will be distributed with the energy and determination that he described.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, we know that there are adequate quarantine facilities in the Wirral and Milton Keynes, but can my noble friend assure the House that the Government have provisional plans in many other parts of the country, in case we have a repeat of having to fly back large numbers of people and put them together for a fortnight or thereabouts? There is real concern on this issue and I would be grateful for reassurance.

[Lord Bethell]

My noble friend is quite right that the quarantine arrangements at Arrowe Park have worked extremely well. This has meant that Britain has been one of the more advanced countries in handling this period of containment. I pay tribute to those involved at Arrowe Park and at Heathrow and Gatwick for handling those flights. It would be misleading of me to stand at the Dispatch Box and suggest that quarantine arrangements are going to be possible ad infinitum for everyone returning from an at-risk area. There will be a moment—as has already happened in Italy—where the containment of the virus in this country will no longer be possible and we will move on to a new phase. Quarantine has worked well so far but it is not, on its own, going to be the solution to this problem.