NHS Update

Debate between Lord Bethell and Baroness Uddin

Thursday 22nd July 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell (Con) [V]]

My Lords, I have followed it up. We have invested a huge amount in our statements. This takes up a large bandwidth for our broadcasters and of the advertising budget of the Cabinet Office and the department—we could not have spent any more money on advertising than we have done to try to get our messages across. However, some of these messages are difficult to understand and sometimes difficult to accept. We all wish that the vaccine was as clear-cut and emphatic as are the vaccines for polio or the other blockbuster vaccines. However, as the noble Lord, Lord Brooke, just described, and as poor old Sajid Javid is currently feeling, two jabs do not guarantee that you will not be infected and infectious. However, neither of them is in hospital and neither of them is suffering from severe disease. The message is nuanced: the vaccines work, will reduce transmission and will help us to get this country out of the disease, but people will still have to proceed with caution, isolate when they are in contact with those with the disease and protect themselves from transmission with masks and social distancing.

[Baroness Uddin (Non-Afl)]

My Lords, I express my gratitude to each and every one in the House for their care and attention these past difficult months. To echo the noble Lord, Lord Balfe, I, too, have been messaged on hundreds of occasions over the last few months on the issue of DNR, on which I will ask a question. In the light of the reports of 39,000 deaths in care homes and the fact that 59% of all those who perished had a disability or autism, when will the Government commence the national inquiry so that those who lost their loved ones can be reassured that no deaths occurred unnecessarily due to government policy decisions and lack of proper and adequate safeguards for all residents in care homes and their well-being and that DNR was not applied disproportionately to people with disability and autism without sufficient oversight, given the incredible pressures on the NHS during these months?

[Lord Bethell (Con) [V]]

My Lords, we will be accountable for the use of DNR and it is right that the noble Baroness’s specific question should be asked: were any groups disproportionately at the wrong end of this? She is right to ask the question. I cannot give her a precise date for the inquiry, but I have given absolutely cast-iron reassurances that it will happen. I am very tired, as is everyone else, and the thought of starting an inquiry today while preparing for the winter is not one that will help our productivity or help to save lives in the difficult time that we have ahead. The right time for the inquiry is probably when the pandemic is truly behind us.

Covid-19 Update

Debate between Lord Bethell and Baroness Uddin

Thursday 8th July 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

My Lords, the Secretary of State did not predict 100,000; he accepted that it was a possibility. I do not accept that we should welcome any deaths in any way. Our hope is that, in the race against the disease, the vaccine will win, R will be brought to below one, the spread of the disease in the UK will be brought under control and any third wave—there will be one of some kind—will be focused on the unvaccinated young, whom the disease largely passes straight through. That is what we are planning on, but we accept that there are risks; that is why we look at the situation daily, and we will change our policies if necessary.

[Baroness Uddin (Non-Afl)]

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for the Statement. Given the warnings of millions of infections and millions suffering from the serious impact of long Covid, are we not opening up too soon without planning, as was well stated by my noble friend Lady Donaghy? Worryingly, we apparently do not have data on the numbers of infections and those with long Covid among those who have been fully vaccinated, as I have—why? Like others, my grandchildren are among the millions of children affected by many school absences, with many finding the regular testing extremely difficult. Is the Minister aware of Abu Dhabi’s Biogenix Labs’ non-invasive saliva testing, which is being used widely and effectively? Are the Government considering a rollout among our own school population? Finally, I add my voice to calls for the Government to publish an equality impact assessment, specifically with the differential effect on diverse and vulnerable communities.

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

I completely accept the question on whether we are moving too soon; it is a perfectly reasonable question. The counter suggestion is this. Say we waited until 85% of the population is double vaccinated, which would be in, say, October—would that necessarily be a better time to do this, when the NHS is at its most stretched and the winter conditions and cold encourage the spread of the virus? We have looked at it really carefully and, on the balance of risk, today is the right day to make these decisions.

On saliva testing, I pay tribute to those who are working here in the UK on the LAMP system, which we have prioritised with a huge amount of investment, particularly for those from special needs schools who find swab testing uncomfortable or really do not like to do it. We hope to report back but I am afraid to say that saliva testing has so far proved to be quite a difficult challenge, and it has not met all the tests that we would have liked it to have done.

Covid-19 Update

Debate between Lord Bethell and Baroness Uddin

Tuesday 8th June 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

I pay tribute to those in the hospitality and related sectors—both those who manage and those who work in it. It has been one of the toughest aspects of this awful pandemic to see these valued and important industries really hammered by the closures that have been necessary to stop the transmission of this awful disease. I hear my noble friend’s message absolutely loud and clear. We are on the final slopes of this journey. We want to ensure that, when we open, we stay open and there is no yo-yoing. That is why we are committed to looking at the data in the run-up to 21 June. His point is extremely well made, and we will definitely take it on board.

[Baroness Uddin (Non-Afl)]

I thank the Minister for repeating the Statement and, in doing so, pay my respects to all carers, particularly those unpaid carers, without whom many more may have perished. I have two points. First, how are the Government encouraging GPs and hospitals to monitor and collect information on patients who may be concerned about or reporting long Covid symptoms without knowing it, and those who may be complaining of or experiencing post-vaccination effects? Secondly, now that the JCVI recommendation is being considered for vaccination of 12 to 15 year-olds, the Minister will be fully aware of the major concern aired by parents—who are all over the radio, with their views and questions—feeling confused about informed choices. Can the Minister assure all parents that, if vaccination is approved, they will be given the fullest information available on the potential side-effects, and that no parent who may choose to opt out of the vaccination for this age group will be pressured or demonised?

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

I am enormously grateful to the noble Baroness for raising in the same breath the importance of secure data arrangements and the question of what we are doing on long Covid, because we could not do what we are doing on long Covid if we did not have access to GP records. The truth is that we are doing an enormous amount. Long Covid, as the noble Baroness knows, is touching more than 1 million patients here in the UK. We have got NICE to take steps to put in place a really clear clinical definition. The NHS has mobilised Covid-specific clinics, which we acknowledge are under pressure but which are an extremely valuable resource for understanding this dreadful condition. NIHR has mobilised research resources, and I pay particular tribute to Great Ormond Street and its CLoCk research project, which is looking at long Covid among children—something which of course concerns us all. Lastly, the royal colleges have done an enormous amount to present both new data and training tools to their members and to feedback information from the front line. Long Covid will be one of the lasting and most concerning aspects of this dreadful pandemic, but we are putting everything we can into dealing with the consequences.

Covid-19 Internal Review

Debate between Lord Bethell and Baroness Uddin

Thursday 20th May 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

My Lords, I do not think I need to speculate on this matter; of course social care will form part of the inquiry. It has been an incredibly important part of our response, and we have come a long way in the last 14 or 15 months. I pay tribute to all the people who work in social care, and their leadership, who have done an enormous amount to protect those who live in social care or are supported by it. We as a country have learned a huge amount about how to protect those who are vulnerable and those who are elderly. I also pay enormous tribute to the public, who have made huge sacrifices to protect and save the lives of those who live in social care.

[Baroness Uddin (Non-Afl)]

My Lords, I welcome the noble Baroness, Lady Merron, to her position and look forward to hearing from her. I too pay tribute to the Minister and the Government, including my friend in the other place, Nadhim Zahawi, who has led this very effectively. It is so pleasing to see the uptake of vaccines in all parts of our countries and communities. While we are not privy to any internal findings of the report, does the Minister accept that any current or future review must address the detrimental economic impact on women, people with disabilities and those communities of minority heritage that suffered significant loss of life in the early days? Will such a report also therefore consider whether the lessons of the first wave were learned, and unnecessary deaths and infections subsequently prevented?

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

My Lords, it is not for me to define exactly what the scope of the inquiry will be but the noble Baroness’s points are extremely well made. I emphasise the importance of women. We are in the midst of consultation on the women’s health strategy. It is proving to be an incredibly impactful process and events are being held almost daily. I encourage all noble Lords to submit evidence to the health strategy on any issues that they feel strongly about. This could be a really impactful turning point in the way in which the health of women in this country is massively improved.

Covid-19 Update

Debate between Lord Bethell and Baroness Uddin

Tuesday 18th May 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

My Lords, I recognise some of the noble Lord’s insights. It is undoubtedly true that the low-paid and the poor have been hardest hit by Covid, both by the infection rates themselves and by the lockdown. That is a frustrating truth that is completely recognised and acknowledged by the Government. It is also true that the low-paid and the poor have health inequalities that have themselves made people more vulnerable to sickness, both from Covid and from the non-Covid diseases that have been exacerbated by limited access to some parts of the NHS. We are absolutely committed to reducing NHS waiting lists—that is an incredibly important part of the “build back better” mantra—but we need to do more to bring a degree of levelling up to all parts of society in order to address the symptoms that the noble Lord rightly describes.

[Baroness Uddin (Non-Afl)]

My Lords, I welcome the remarkable progress of the uptake of the vaccine in all communities, and I thank the Minister for coming to us with this Statement. However, I am sure he will understand that serious questions remain about the Government’s decision not to red-list being a direct cause of this dangerous Indian variant—I am sure that at some point the Government will have to answer fully to Parliament—and that it is not true, even as a clinical assessment, despite the media repeatedly and consistently suggesting this, that the uptake of vaccinations is the responsibility of certain communities. The Minister will appreciate the likely and even inevitable consequences of rising Islamophobia and hate crimes, as has been reported by Tell MAMA. What are the Government going to do to monitor and support local communities to ensure that they do not face such consequences? Also, echoing the noble Baroness, Lady Tyler, what plans and resources are in place to monitor and support compliance as we enter the next phase of the road map?

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

My Lords, I have to be honest with the noble Baroness: I am not sure it is helpful to try to connect healthcare policy decisions with a commentary on hate crime. The people who have not stepped up to the vaccine come from a very wide variety of communities; it is not one single community that has been singled out. We are talking about everyone from migrant workers in the apple yards of Herefordshire, to hard-working off-book sweat-shop labourers in east Leicestershire. In between there are people from many different communities who have not taken advantage of the vaccine opportunity. We are working really closely at NHS level to reassure community leaders and individuals concerned that the vaccine is safe and will provide protection. That is the right conversation to have.

Health and Social Care Update

Debate between Lord Bethell and Baroness Uddin

Monday 22nd March 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

My noble friend hits the nail on the head; who could think that a return to the previous regime of turning up at a GP’s surgery or a hospital every time you feel ill could possibly be a wise way of going about your healthcare system? Professor Sir Mike Richards has done an extremely good report on community health hubs, which we are looking at very closely; it has some very wise words that we are minded to follow up.

[Baroness Uddin (Non-Afl) [V]]

My Lords, I congratulate the Government on the rollout of the vaccine programme. I have two questions. First, what steps are being taken to ensure that local authorities are making progress to resume assessments of the needs of adults with learning disabilities and autism, many of whom were forced to depend on their inadequate amount of disability benefit? Secondly, what steps have been taken to speak to family members who lost loved ones with the instruction for staff not to resuscitate? I raise this point as I have raised it before. Will the Minister assure this House that the practice is no longer applicable to residents in care homes and people with learning disabilities, unless in agreement with patients and their families?

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

My Lords, the CQC has pronounced its report on do not resuscitate orders, which is absolutely crystal clear. I wholly endorse its findings and recommendations.

Covid-19: Vaccinations

Debate between Lord Bethell and Baroness Uddin

Wednesday 13th January 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

I pay tribute to colleagues in the FCDO, which has been a tremendous advocate for overseas territories. We have made considerable provisions to ensure that vaccine supplies are provided to the far-flung territories, where we have strong relationships and a duty of care. I would be glad to write to him with the details of that deployment.

[Baroness Uddin (Non-Afl)]

My Lords, anyone questioning the horror of the disease and the pressures on the NHS need look no further than outside their local hospitals, as I did, notwithstanding that questions on efficacy, information and choices are the fundamental right of every patient. The Minister will know that the Bangladeshi community has a very high vaccination compliance rate, but in this case there has been quite a lot of confusion. Can he yet again confirm that sufficient bilingual material is being made available to the community, and will he agree to meet with me and some experts on this issue?

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

My Lords, that is a very good reminder. I will be glad to return to the department and check that the bilingual material is as she asks, and I will write to her with the details.

Covid-19 Update

Debate between Lord Bethell and Baroness Uddin

Tuesday 15th December 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell (Con) [V]]

The noble Lord makes his point well, but I respectfully disagree. One of the great challenges from closing schools is that young people then socialise and spread the disease much further and wider than they would if they stayed at school. This has been demonstrated time and again around the world. Also, to keep our hospitals open and our businesses and education systems going, and to stop deprivation from accelerating, it is desperately important to keep schools open. That is why, today, we announced the rollout of a much greater and enhanced asymptomatic testing regime for schools, in the new year, which will see bubble and teacher testing, so that schools can remain open.

[Baroness Uddin (Non-Afl) [V]]

My Lords, in the light of the British Medical Journal’s formal joint letter with the Health Service Journal, I hope that the Minister will reconsider the Christmas relaxation of the rules. The point I wish to make really echoes those of my noble friends Lady Verma and Lord Hunt. It is about the scepticism around medicine within some sections of the communities—in particular within Bangladeshi communities, where disproportionate numbers of deaths and infections have occurred. In the light of many noble Lords raising questions about communication issues, will the Minister urgently meet me and some of the local specialist media to consider reviewing the messaging that targets some of these communities?

[Lord Bethell (Con) [V]]

I completely accept the point made by the noble Baroness. It is incredibly frustrating that the exact communities which have often seen some of the highest mortality rates are also those which are sceptical about the vaccine. This is one of our biggest challenges; it has been for months and will continue to be so. I pay tribute to colleagues at the Department of Health and the Cabinet Office who have done a huge amount in working with specialist media—radio, magazines and online forums—to target exactly these communities. They have used advertising and direct engagement with the presenters to put the message across, often in local languages, and this has proved increasingly effective.

Ockenden Review

Debate between Lord Bethell and Baroness Uddin

Monday 14th December 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell (Con) [V]]

My Lords, I completely take on board the noble Lord’s observations. It is true that Donna Ockenden’s report alludes to the failure by senior leadership to monitor and intervene where clearly there were problems. However, let us not confuse correlation with causation. This was not caused by a failure of senior leadership, but by a breakdown in the basic management systems and culture of the maternity services within the trust. That should have been addressed by the senior leadership, but it was not necessarily caused by them. I completely endorse the observation of the noble Lord that neighbouring trusts have an important role to play in checking in and benchmarking behaviours. That is a point made very clearly in the Ockenden report, and one that I hope they will step up to.

[Baroness Uddin (Non-Afl) [V]]

I salute the courage of the parents of Kate Stanton Davies, Pippa Griffiths and so many others in their tenacious personal search for truth and justice. Donna Ockenden’s report was harrowing reading. The pain, trauma and inhuman disregard for the safety of baby and mother was palpable, profoundly damaging confidence and trust in maternity services. It made me relive my own decade-long failed attempt to seek information on whether my lengthy abandonment on a bed overnight after 48 hours of labour pain has anything to do with my now 42 year-old son’s brain damage and lifelong disabilities. I was dismissed constantly, admonished for “being an Asian mother too ashamed to have given birth to a disabled child”, which is far from the truth about a much-loved son.

Sadly, I was not alone, as the Ockenden report details. It has been repeatedly confirmed by so many others and by the first maternity advocacy scheme, which was set up in the 1980s to address the high postnatal mortality rate of mothers and babies among Bangladeshi, Pakistani, Somalian, Vietnamese and African women, whose maternity experiences, even today, remain inconsistent and patchy. Therefore, can I ask the Minister what consideration can and will be given to historic grievances in any future review of maternity services, given what the right honourable Jeremy Hunt in the other place, and Donna Ockenden, have said about the experience of mothers and babies highlighted being only the beginning of unearthing potential malpractice across England?

[Lord Bethell (Con) [V]]

I join others in paying tribute to the personal testimony of the noble Baroness. The story that she tells is extremely moving. One cannot think about the challenges and difficulties that she must have had since that awful night, which she so movingly describes. The report makes it clear that those with a BAME background have disproportionately high rates of difficulty at birth and in maternity services, something which undoubtedly we need to look at more carefully. However, the Ockenden report is not a historic grievances report, and that will not be the focus of our response.

Coronavirus Vaccine

Debate between Lord Bethell and Baroness Uddin

Thursday 3rd December 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

My Lords, the noble Lord raises an important challenge there; fairness and equity are important in this important time. However, I will try to assess the situation: we have 800,000 doses of a vaccine that is incredibly difficult to transport, requires cold storage and is in vials containing more than 100 doses each. Therefore, practical considerations are pre-eminent at the moment, rather than sharp elbows.

[Baroness Uddin (Non-Afl) [V]]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for the gracious way he has introduced this discussion, and I welcome his assurance of dialogue. I hope he will agree, as he has assured us, that the vaccine will not be the only effective means of preventing infections and further deaths and that the Government will continue their heartening improvement of the test and trace programmes and ensure that those in tiers 2 and 3 have the required financial measures. Can he assure me and the House that his department will urgently scale up communication with particularly vulnerable and poorer communities, where concerns around vaccination are significant? Can he assure me that any proposed government use of the police and army will be done with consent and after consultation with local authority leadership?

Covid-19: Dental Services

Debate between Lord Bethell and Baroness Uddin

Tuesday 10th November 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

My Lords, I completely acknowledge the challenge that the noble Baroness has described. Many dentists can see only 20% of their normal cases, and around half can see about 50%. The backlog is, as she describes it, severe, and the impact, particularly on private dentists, has been very hurtful for their businesses. I cannot make a commitment to fund ventilation arrangements, but we acknowledge the scale of this challenge and are looking at ways to mitigate it, including bringing in testing, which we hope would help provide a safe environment for both staff and patients.

[Baroness Uddin (Non-Afl)]

My Lord, the Minister will be aware that people with learning disabilities and autism have suffered disproportionately in not receiving care and services. Will he undertake to ensure that they are not equally suffering by not receiving dental services, especially specialist dental provisions? I declare that I have a 41 year-old son with a learning disability and autism. I have spoken to a number of organisations that said that the pandemic exacerbated the difficulties in the process of receiving important and urgent care.

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

My Lords, the noble Baroness refers to the prioritisation of patients in the constrained appointment flow of dentists. She is entirely right that those who have vulnerabilities, disabilities or other disadvantages should be prioritised: that is the objective of the prioritisation process. She makes the point extremely well and I am happy to take on board any points on where she thinks the system is not working as well as it might do.

Covid-19: Intensive Care Treatment

Debate between Lord Bethell and Baroness Uddin

Thursday 29th October 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

I am not sure that I agree with the implication of the noble Lord’s question—that somehow there is a prejudice on the front line against older people and that staff take it into their own hands to make decisions that are in themselves inherently unfair. That is not my experience. Where the noble Lord absolutely has a point is that people are extremely sensitive about these kinds of issues, and, quite rightly, are deeply concerned that they are going to get the treatment and care that they deserve and will not be subject to any form of unfairness. It is imperative that the NHS builds trusts and conveys a strong communication on these issues. To push back against the noble Lord, it is not my impression that the staff at the NHS have lost sight of this important principle.

[Baroness Uddin (Non-Afl)]

My Lords, I declare an interest in that many of my family and friends work on the front line of the NHS, which I love and respect, as all other Members do. At the height of the pandemic, I watched a programme on Italian and American doctors using algorithms for vital decisions on treatment, with one being highlighted where triage tools had indicated nil chance of a patient surviving. However, their family pleaded with the doctors and convinced them to give them a few more days to see if “a miracle could happen”. In April, my close friend’s death was predicted from the use of some kind of early triage process. Sadly, my friend lost his battle. However, the miracle occurred: against all the odds, because of one decision by one team of doctors, the Italian patient survived. Given the fiasco of the use of algorithms, although I welcome the Minister’s absolute assurance, what analysis or serious case review has been undertaken of the number of treatment decisions based on early triage tools, given that extreme pressures on doctors have returned? Where deaths have occurred, can the Minister say what proportion were individuals of Bangladeshi heritage? Can any lessons be learned to improve their survival chances in the current emergency?

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

My Lords, I share my sympathies with the noble Baroness for the loss of her friend, for which we are all very sad. However, I take exception to her implication of a fiasco in the use of algorithms. I do not accept the implication that it is regular practice for clinicians somehow to give up on patients who stand a chance simply because their reading of an algorithm says that they should move on to someone else. That is not how we run the NHS; it is not how we had to run it during the first wave and it is not how we intend to run it during the second.

Covid-19 Update

Debate between Lord Bethell and Baroness Uddin

Monday 21st September 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Uddin (Non-Afl) [V]]

My Lords, 50,000 is a frightening enough number but SAGE has made public pronouncements that, as we approach the winter, up to 500,000 people or more may display Covid and flu symptoms. With schools and universities returned, there is nationwide concern about this increasing exponentially, as the Minister has said. We have heard that some schools and universities are already facing partial closure. What specific advice has been issued to NHS front-line staff, including GPs, so that they are vigilant and adequately prepared to respond to the needs of teachers and families—particularly those within ethnic minority communities—who are deemed at higher risk of being affected by this dangerous disease? Regarding the Help Us to Help You campaign, is the Minister working closely with ethnic minority communities in particular? They have obviously been disproportionately affected, and we want to avoid that continuing, at all costs.

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

My Lords, the noble Baroness is quite right to raise the question of the Help Us to Help You campaign and the work that is being focused on hard-to-reach communities, whether BAME communities or other communities where we struggle to get some of our health messages through. I reassure her that there is an enormous focus on getting these important messages through to those who are particularly vulnerable to the effects of Covid, and who we have to work harder to reach.

Covid-19 Update

Debate between Lord Bethell and Baroness Uddin

Monday 14th September 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

My Lords, I agree that everyone can tell the difference between inside and outside, but everyone also has eyes, and may have seen, as I have, how people crowd together in the forecourts and beer gardens of Britain. If they were all standing on draughty hillsides with the wind blowing the disease around, that would be one thing, but the simple fact is that our prevalence has gone up—the evidence speaks for itself—and that is why we need to be clearer about this simple measure.

[Baroness Uddin (Non-Afl)]

My Lords, in the US 513,000 children have been infected as of 3 September, with 70,630 cases reported in the past two weeks. Only this morning in my locality, all reception classes bar one were shut down due to the Covid infection of a teacher. As a father, the Minister will understand that many parents remain fearful and are seeking assurance and evidence of safety. Holding the Government to account after a tragedy has occurred would be meaningless. What lessons can we learn from our friends in the US and elsewhere about minimising the spread of infection among teachers and children in the UK, with the inevitable consequence of transmission to their homes and vulnerable loved ones in their families?

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

My Lords, policymakers around the world are facing exactly the same dilemma. We are determined to have the schools back, because the long-term effects on young people—particularly the least advantaged—will be profound if we shut the schools. The noble Baroness is entirely right to say that parents are naturally concerned that the safety of children, and other generations that they may come into contact with, is at risk. That is why we are massively prioritising the return of schools and introducing measures such as the rule of six to break the chain of transmission and thereby protect the schools from closure.

Anti-obesity Strategies

Debate between Lord Bethell and Baroness Uddin

Monday 14th September 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

My noble friend is right, and Covid has really spelt out the challenge in this area to the NHS and the Government. The incidence of serious Covid effects on BAME communities has been more intense because of the prevalence of diabetes and overweightness in many of those communities. We have relooked at our marketing and communications to those communities and need to redouble our efforts. That is why, as part of the obesity strategy, we are putting in serious, concentrated efforts in reaching the communities, as my noble friend advised. I would be glad to talk to her about how we can do that better.

[Baroness Uddin (Non-Afl)]

My Lords, children and adolescent adults with eating disorders battle multiple debilitating physical and mental effects. Eating disorders have one of the highest morbidity rates among psychiatric conditions, causing untold helplessness and grief for families and professionals constantly struggling with a lack of adequate financial resources and services, as evidenced by Ignoring the alarms: How NHS eating disorder services are failing patients, a report by the Parliamentary and Health Service Ombudsman. In light of this report and a significant body of evidence known to health services and experts in the field, can the Minister assure the House that sufficient advice has been sought and a thorough, evidence-based risk analysis undertaken to mitigate the potential harmful, detrimental impact of the public anti-obesity campaign on those suffering and recovering from disorders?

[Lord Bethell (Con)]

My Lords, I am not sure I agree with the premise of the question. It is not my belief that the anti-obesity campaign will generate massive negative repercussions. The NHS’s work in this area has developed immensely and we are putting a huge amount of money into it, including through our mental health strategy. I support the strategy we are applying.

Contact Tracing: Personal Privacy

Debate between Lord Bethell and Baroness Uddin

Thursday 11th June 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell [V]]

My Lords, we have agreed up front to an enormous amount of transparency. We have open source for the code, we have published the data protection impact assessment and the privacy notice, we have committed to publish the privacy and security models, and we have published numerous blogs setting out the approach we are taking. The approach towards the app completely embraces transparency and we will continue down that path.

[Baroness Uddin (Non-Afl) [V]]

My Lords, in addition to the questions laid before the House by the noble Lord, Lord Hain, can the Minister address the fact that the Covid-19 impact on minority communities has seen pertinent questions about structural discrimination, and inequality is now rightly acknowledged? Does he accept that the deep-seated misgivings about privacy and protection of personal data management within many communities is real? How will the Government work with community leaders, including women’s and faith organisations, to create confidence in the NHSX contact tracing system in areas such as Tower Hamlets, Newham, Hackney and Brent, which have a disproportionate number of deaths, and where access to smartphones and technologies may be limited and this application viewed with scepticism?

[Lord Bethell [V]]

My Lords, the evidence before me suggests that the British public have an enormous amount of support for the app. Recent research by Johnson and Lubbock partners for ITV showed that 59% of British adults report that they would download the app. We remain committed to reassuring all British people that the app is safe. I take completely on board the noble Baroness’s recommendations to engage with community and faith leaders who may have particular misgivings; it would be worth engaging with them on a particular basis.

Covid-19: BAME NHS Staff

Debate between Lord Bethell and Baroness Uddin

Tuesday 19th May 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell]

The noble Baroness put this very well. We are deeply concerned about genetic differences between groups. This virus is like malaria and other viruses in that it affects different ethnic groups differently. We are concerned about behavioural issues such as diet and environmental issues such as urban versus rural living arrangements. We have already invited health trusts to put in place arrangements to protect our BAME NHS workers. We are also inviting other academic studies, of which there is a large number, to look at the various concerns about how the virus has hit different groups. We will be commissioning a very large amount of medical research into this important area.

[Baroness Uddin (Non-Afl)]

I salute my noble friend for her relentless uphill struggle to combat institutional discrimination in our country. No one can ignore the sobering statistics on front-line deaths among members of minority communities. These have raised the deepest fears about the tragic number of deaths. Leaders in the NHS who are responsible for diversity have also said that the Government have been too slow to act to protect NHS front-line staff. What measures are in place to monitor this situation and to assure BAME staff that they can be confident about continuing to provide their services to the NHS in safety?

[Lord Bethell]

I completely and utterly reject the suggestion by the noble Baroness that there is institutional racism in the NHS. That is a completely inappropriate slur and I invite the noble Baroness to retract it at a future date.

Coronavirus Bill

Debate between Lord Bethell and Baroness Uddin

Committee stage & Committee: 1st sitting (Hansard) & Committee: 1st sitting (Hansard): House of Lords
Wednesday 25th March 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bethell]

I completely recognise that the noble Baroness’s intentions are totally and 100% benign. She has the interests of the women concerned at heart. That intention is completely clear to me and I utterly endorse it. Where there is a difference of opinion and where we have taken a huge amount of advice—we have worked with the scientific advice in the department —is in the fact that the changes being offered are a fundamental change to the way abortions are regulated and administered in this country. Those regulations and administration arrangements have been worked on for years and are subject to an enormous amount of consensus. Her point on monitoring the situation is exactly the one that the noble Baroness, Lady Watkins, made earlier. I commit the department to monitoring it. We will remain engaged with the Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists and other stakeholders. She is absolutely right that we can return to the subject with two-monthly reporting back, and it can be discussed in Parliament in the debates planned on a six-monthly basis.

[Baroness Uddin]

I say this with the sincerest due respect. The Minister will be aware that there are huge concerns about the power to have just one doctor decide whether a body should be cremated, especially in the light of the crisis becoming more intensive and critical.

[Lord Bethell]

The noble Baroness’s concerns are noted.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Uddin]

My Lords, I too beg the indulgence of the Committee. I have raised this point on a number of occasions; I am raising it now with respect to the powers within the Bill relating to necessity and proportionality, particularly as regards matters of dignity in death and what may happen in the unforeseen circumstances that thousands of deaths occur among the faith communities, and cremation may be decided upon due to the lack of burial spaces and storage facilities. I am suggesting that Schedule 28 affects our human rights obligations.

I am requesting, therefore, on behalf of the many hundreds of individuals who have written to me, including faith leaders and organisations, that the Government remove from paragraphs 13(1) and (2) in Part 4 of Schedule 28 the words

“have regard to the desirability of disposing”

and replace them with “dispose”, and then delete from paragraphs 13(1)(b) and 13(2)(b) the words

“in a way that appears”

so that the necessary guarantees are provided in the legislation, which will be required to provide assurance to the relevant faith communities.

[Lord Bethell]

My Lords, the noble Baroness, Lady Ludford, and all those who have signed up to this amendment have made incredibly important points that the Government utterly confirms. I reassure the Committee that this Bill is very clearly focused on the present danger of SARS-CoV and the Covid-19 disease. If there is any other virus—and even if this virus mutates— we will need a new Act or at least to amend this one.

The Government are 100% committed to protecting and respecting human rights. We have a long-standing tradition of ensuring that rights and liberties are protected domestically and of fulfilling our human rights commitments. That will not change. We have strong human rights protections, with a comprehensive and well-established constitutional and legal system. The Human Rights Act 1998 gives further effect in UK law to the rights and freedoms contained in the European Convention on Human Rights. Nothing in this Bill contradicts that.

I reassure a number of speakers—including but not limited to the noble and learned Lord, Lord Falconer, the noble Lord, Lord Anderson, and the noble Baroness, Lady Kennedy—that there is nothing in this Act that allows the Government to breach or disapply the Human Rights Act or the Equality Act. The Bill itself is fully compliant with the Human Rights Act and the Government have certified this on the face of the Bill— in fact, I signed it myself in accordance with Section 19. Pursuant to Section 6 of the Human Rights Act, every exercise of power by a public authority under this Bill is already required to be compliant with the Human Rights Act. I further reassure the House that, at all times, this Government will act with proportionality.

I am advised by legal counsel that the amendment is potentially both unnecessary and unhelpful. If we accept it, it might imply that the Human Rights Act and Equality Act do not apply in this way in other Bills or Acts that do not feature this sort of provision. For that reason, I suggest that the amendment should be withdrawn.