Death of Alexei Navalny

Lord Berkeley of Knighton Excerpts

Monday 19th February 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

Again, the noble Baroness provides a very personal insight of her experiences. I recall the time of the great and late Lady Thatcher and her meeting with Mr Gorbachev—that this was someone “we can do business with”. I remember, in my much younger years, the great inspiration that we were seeing the coming down of that wall that was created; the Cold War was coming to an end. Yet here we are in 2024 and many of those issues and challenges, and the antagonistic nature of what Russia presented, are still being realised today.

Therefore, yes, there are many unintended consequences which Mr Putin did not foresee, including the expansion of NATO to new members and a new, increased resilience among existing NATO members, and of course we are looking very much towards Ukraine’s accession. On the point about Hungary, yes, I can assure my noble friend we are very much seized of that. Again, at the moment, I am at the Raisina dialogue in India and I saw on the list the Hungarian Foreign Minister, who I know well personally. I have indicated to my team that, if he is present, I wish to meet with him on the very issue my noble friend raises.

[Lord Berkeley of Knighton (CB)]

Given what the Minister and other noble Lords have said, will the Minister comment on the importance of getting the message from the West across to the people of Russia? I am thinking particularly of the BBC World Service, of course—but other news organisations as well. That is part of our soft power. It is one of the few things we can really do in these circumstances.

There is another thing I would ask the Minister to endorse. Mrs Navalny talked about not just the loss of a future, the loss of her husband’s future, but the loss of the future that he held for Russia—Mother Russia and the people that he loved there. Having myself been there several times, had music performed there, and been really welcomed extraordinarily by the Russian people, I think—especially given what the noble Lord, Lord Howell, said—of the experience of Dmitri Shostakovich, who of course Stalin tried to keep quiet and almost had killed. In fact, he would have had him killed after the first performance of Lady Macbeth of Mtsensk: there was a terrible review in Pravda, which normally would have spelled the death of someone. So I endorse the importance of the spirit of the Russian people. We may take succour from these great works of art, whether from Tolstoy, Dostoevsky, Solzhenitsyn or Shostakovich, which show that the human spirit somehow prevails. Mr Navalny would want us to think in those positive terms. As Mrs Navalny said, “We will fight on”.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

I totally endorse the noble Lord’s statement, views and indeed sentiments. He brings a valuable dimension to the discussion and questions that we have about the strength of UK soft power, including the use of the incredible service that the BBC provides to many countries, including the Russian people. I certainly take on board what he said. As my noble friend said earlier, our fight is not with the Russian people. Indeed, Russian culture through history has enriched not just the Russian people but the world.

United Nations World Water Development Report

Lord Berkeley of Knighton Excerpts

Tuesday 28th March 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

My noble friend makes an important point. There are lots of ways in which we can alleviate that problem. I add to his suggestion that the most important focus is to concentrate on the environmental link between water shortage and environmental degradation. To put that in context, the Congo Basin provides around two-thirds of Africa’s rain, so if we allow it to continue to be cut down at the rate it is currently being cut down—half a million hectares a year—one only needs to imagine the humanitarian crisis that would follow.

[Lord Berkeley of Knighton (CB)]

My Lords, is our influence in the world not somewhat diminished by the fact that we are pumping so much sewage into the sea and polluting our rivers, such as the Wye, with effluent from chicken farms?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

The noble Lord is right to highlight this issue, despite the Question being on the international situation. The treatment by water companies of our waterways is and has been abominable. The British people expect much more, and so do the Government.

EU: Trade in Goods (European Affairs Committee Report)

Lord Berkeley of Knighton Excerpts

Thursday 2nd February 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Berkeley of Knighton (CB)]

My Lords, I always enjoy listening to the noble Lord, Lord Foulkes, and I must say that I too would love to see that closer link. Unlike him, I did not have the pleasure of experiencing the flash of steel of the noble Baroness, Lady Chalker, or even of having a cup of tea with her, but as someone who was outside the Palace of Westminster—indeed, completely outside politics—I was in constant admiration of her work on international development, which was clearly second to none. It must sadden her slightly that the money going into international development has had to be cut. She knows only too well how difficult it is to keep that amount up and running.

I should possibly declare my interest as a professional musician, which will give your Lordships some idea of where I am about to go. I shall concentrate on only one area. The noble Viscount, Lord Stansgate, mentioned it, but I want to go into it in a little more detail.

The report is wonderful; it has great clarity and does not pull its punches, and I commend my noble friend Lord Kinnoull and his Select Committee on it. When I started reading it, I saw, as we have just heard, that the Select Committee is dealing with performing musicians on another occasion and at another stage, so I thought, “Perhaps, this is not the moment for me to open my mouth”. But when I read further and saw the item about cabotage, I thought, “I cannot avoid this”, because, as the noble Viscount, Lord Stansgate, mentioned, it is absolutely disastrous for the musicians of this country, for music touring and for the creative arts. I say to the noble Lord, Lord Lamont, whom I have always found extremely persuasive in his arguments—and I say the same to my noble friend Lord Hannay—that I suspect that he would agree with me that this is one issue that is not out of date, and that we can separate it from Covid. It has nothing to do with Covid; rather, it is to do with the free movement of musicians and the exchange of ideas.

The report says:

“UK lorries are limited to two laden journeys between different Member States (crosstrade) and one laden journey within a single Member State (cabotage).”


For the creative industries, musicians and dance companies, we should substitute “cabotage” with “sabotage”, because it is ruinous—it cannot be done. Furthermore, Logistics UK told the committee

“that these rules on market access ‘work reasonably well for general haulage companies’. However, they added that because of the limitations on cross-trade and cabotage, the TCA ‘[does not] offer any sustainable solution to UK touring companies carrying equipment on pan-European cultural tours’, such as performing musicians, where ‘the same load”—

this is crucial—

“needs to be moved to different successive locations across Europe.’ This, they said, ‘constitutes a gap in the TCA and requires a jointly agreed solution with the EU.’”

I will briefly explain why that is so. If you are touring a pop group, you have to take amplifiers and, probably, video equipment and you need roadies; you cannot do that without a huge truck. If you are touring the London Symphony Orchestra, you will have eight to 12 double basses, timpani, percussion and music stands, all of which must be moved. Dance companies will need a certain amount of staging to operate at all. No tour can be set up in Europe that does not go to multiple venues—I have checked this with the people who do it—as it would simply not be financially feasible. That is a fact of life.

The report continues:

“The Committee has previously highlighted the issue of haulage restrictions for touring as part of its separate work on the movement of creative professionals. In a letter to Lord Frost, dated 19 October 2021, the Committee warned that continued UK participation in the music haulage market is rendered ‘practically impossible’ by the restrictions in the TCA”—


both sides agree on that—

“and highlighted the UK’s previous dominance of the European music haulage market, meaning that this is ‘not a sector in which the shortfall could be picked up by EU operators’”

using other EU lorries, getting everything off one lorry and on to another lorry. The report goes on:

“Committee correspondence with the Government on this matter is ongoing.”


Although I found in meetings with the noble Lord, Lord Frost, that he was pretty unmovable on going back to the TCA, he had the good grace to say that the Government got it wrong on EU touring. That gives me a mandate to demand from the Minister—so expert on foreign affairs, but now having to deal with this—that he must put this right.

The Select Committee said:

“Although the TCA’s provisions on road transport work well for most hauliers, they are wholly inadequate for those whose business model relies on the temporary movement of goods to multiple locations in the EU, particularly to large sections of the performing arts sector. We retain a close interest in this matter and intend to continue pursuing this in correspondence with the Government.”


I am glad to hear that.

Let us think about the ramifications of this. Following Covid, many musicians and people in the performing arts suffered terribly financially. I have always acknowledged Rishi Sunak’s help for the sector, and I do so once again, but there were many freelancers who fell through the net. They have been doubly hit by the fact that, in getting back into work now, they simply cannot tour. Then we come to the issue of society as a whole; this slightly echoes what Sir Paul Nurse has said about science. Art, science and music all rely on the exchange of ideas to make society more aware of what is happening around the world. If we do not have that exchange, things ossify and die.

It was good news for the Treasury when we toured. The creative industries brought in billions to the Treasury. At a time when it needs every penny, why are we stopping our artists going abroad, giving the reputation of this country a boost and bringing money into the Treasury? It makes no sense whatever. I am sure the Minister will say, as the response to the report says, that the Government acknowledge that touring is a vital part of musicians’ and performers’ careers; the response even talks about the things I have just said and why they are important. Then it goes on to say:

“This is a complex issue for which there are no simple solutions.”


I say that where there is a will, there is a way. I hope that the Minister may be able to reassure us—as people have done in private—that this is a subject the Government take extremely seriously and wish to change.

Colombia: Human Rights

Lord Berkeley of Knighton Excerpts

Monday 12th July 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con) [V]]

My Lords, the noble Lord is correct that he has raised this issue. We continue to ensure that our training of overseas law enforcement officers is fully supported by reviewing all training initiatives and ensuring that human rights are at the forefront of direct engagement. The 220 investigations that I have alluded to are specifically into misconduct by the police. These cases are now open and we are monitoring and following their progress.

[Lord Berkeley of Knighton (CB) [V]]

My Lords, anyone who has travelled in Colombia knows that it is both one of the most beautiful and one of the most violent places on earth. Agencies such as Human Rights Watch have identified the lack of separation between the police and the military as contributing to the use of force and live ammunition to control protesters. Does the Minister agree that one way we might attempt to use any influence that we have would be to push for greater separation between these agencies?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con) [V]]

My Lords, I agree with the noble Lord and will take that forward. I agree with the premise that we need to see a clear demarcation in the responsibilities of the police.

Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe

Lord Berkeley of Knighton Excerpts

Wednesday 24th March 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con) [V]]

My noble friend makes an extremely powerful point. Compassion is certainly not a word that can be used to describe the manner in which this British subject has been treated. The UK does not and never will, under any circumstances, accept its dual nationals being used as diplomatic leverage. The payment of the IMS debt is a long-standing case relating to historical debt owed to pre-revolution Iran, as the noble Lord will know. We continue to explore the options to resolve this case. I cannot go into detail here, but would say simply that the two issues cannot be merged into one.

[Lord Berkeley of Knighton (CB) [V]]

My Lords, I must press the Minister on the final point made so eloquently by the noble Lord, Lord Dubs. It seems to many people in this country that we should simply pay this debt and get it out of the way, given that senior members of the Government have admitted that we owe it. Also, have the Government made an assessment of other British citizens who might, either now or in the future, be in danger of being held as, quite frankly, hostages?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con) [V]]

My Lords, it is unhelpful to connect wider bilateral issues with those being arbitrarily detained in Iran. It remains in Iran’s gift to do the right thing and allow British dual nationals to come home and be reunited with their families. We have been consistently clear that we continue to explore all the options to resolve what is a 40 year-old case. The Government are clear that we do not accept British dual nationals being used as diplomatic leverage and we continue to call on the Iranian Government to release all the British dual nationals who have been arbitrarily detained.

Heather and Grass etc. Burning (England) Regulations 2021

Lord Berkeley of Knighton Excerpts

Thursday 18th March 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Berkeley of Knighton (CB) [V]]

My Lords, the noble Viscount, Lord Trenchard, made some interesting points there. The noble Baroness, Lady Jones, told us that 13% of the world’s blanket bogs are here in the UK. That is a pretty amazing figure, given how relatively small that area is in this country. As such, it is clearly important that we have this debate and consider the dangers of burning.

Living on a farm surrounded by a shoot, I want to argue for an alliance between ecologists and landowners; I think that it is possible. For centuries, farmers here have burned or laid low bracken and areas like that to help the wildlife we have been hearing about to prosper. I draw particular attention to the comments of the noble Duke, the Duke of Montrose, the noble Earl, Lord Caithness, and the noble Lord, Lord Mancroft, because we need information from people who have direct experience. Let us not forget that, biblically, fire purifies and can allow plants to grow. I have seen extraordinary examples of that in Australia.

I have taken from this interesting debate the fact that, if we can agree to limit—and somehow do so —surface material to protect the peat bog, we should be able to make progress. I encourage the Minister, who cares passionately about these matters, to see whether he can draw these two sides together in that way. I wish him the best of British luck.

[The Deputy Speaker (Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall) (Lab)]

I call the noble Lord, Lord McColl of Dulwich. Lord McColl? We can see you, but, regrettably, we cannot hear you. We will move on to the noble Baroness, Lady Bennett of Manor Castle.

Hong Kong: Electoral Reforms

Lord Berkeley of Knighton Excerpts

Thursday 11th March 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

In terms of what we say publicly in strengthening diplomacy, restraint is very much a description of British diplomacy at its best. But I assure my noble and learned friend that the restraint is not demonstrated in any way through the options that we consider—as we have done in calling out the issue in Hong Kong—and we are not wringing our hands. We regard China as an important international player, and it is important that it seeks to remain, and retain its place, within the international community. Everyone is looking at China and at what is happening not just in Hong Kong but in China itself, particularly in Xinjiang. It is important that we continue to call that out in international fora and, as I have said, together with international partners.

[Lord Berkeley of Knighton (CB) [V]]

Could I press the Minister on one point that the noble Baroness, Lady Blackstone, made? Are we actually holding hands with the Biden Administration to put pressure on China? That would clearly strengthen our hand considerably. Secondly, given how we cannot really trust what assurances were given by the Chinese, how are we going to approach future negotiations?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, on the noble Lord’s second point, of course what is happening in Hong Kong and the continued suppression of the human rights of people within China are important considerations in any future discussions we have with the Chinese authorities. On his first issue about our links and discussions with the Biden Administration, I assure the noble Lord that my right honourable friends the Prime Minister and the Foreign Secretary are engaging with the United States, as well as all members of the team. Indeed, as I have said before, I look forward to talking quite directly with the Assistant Secretary responsible for human rights after the appropriate confirmation hearings, and I assure the noble Lord that this will be one of the key priority issues on our agenda.

Myanmar: Protesters

Lord Berkeley of Knighton Excerpts

Wednesday 10th March 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I totally agree with my noble friend: China has an important role. The statement that he quoted is of course welcome. Equally, referring to the question raised by the noble Lord, Lord Hussain, China’s intervention in resolving the situation for the Rohingya is also an important part of finding a lasting solution for all in Myanmar and in the region.

[Lord Berkeley of Knighton (CB) [V]]

My Lords, does the Minister consider that recent events in Myanmar go some way to explaining the otherwise rather inexplicable behaviour of Aung San Suu Kyi in terms of the persecution of the Rohingya Muslims?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, during Aung San Suu Kyi’s leadership of Myanmar, we continued to raise the issue of the Rohingya community and will continue to do so. It is important that lessons are learned from the past, and we hope that democracy will return so that we can look specifically at the plight of the Rohingya community as well as others.

Hong Kong: Democracy Movement

Lord Berkeley of Knighton Excerpts

Monday 8th March 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, let me assure the noble Baroness that we are in close contact with a wide range of businesses in Hong Kong, but as I have said before, it is for businesses to make their own judgment calls. However, we are concerned that a number of recent decisions taken by the authorities in Hong Kong are further evidence of their determined campaign to stifle opposition and silence dissent. We will certainly continue to pursue an approach in Hong Kong that is rooted in our values and defends our rights, and we will continue to advise on and discuss with business the current serious situation in Hong Kong that we have been seeing in recent days.

[Lord Berkeley of Knighton (CB) [V]]

My Lords, we have heard comparisons being made with Myanmar and other unhappy positions where people’s rights are being affected. However, surely the fact that China’s actions in Hong Kong are in clear contravention of the Sino-British joint declaration makes this particular case unique. How can we trust our future negotiations with a country which has actually broken its word? Does this not add to the demands made by the noble Lord, Lord Alton, for further action?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

I agree entirely with the noble Lord’s first point. We continue to engage with China on a raft of different issues, including the environment and climate change. However, it is important that the statements of trust which are made by the Chinese authorities are ones that can stand scrutiny. From what we have seen in Hong Kong, that is not the case.

Covid-19: Surplus Vaccine Doses

Lord Berkeley of Knighton Excerpts

Monday 22nd February 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, on the noble Lord’s second point, by working with key partners we will ensure that the most vulnerable communities receive the vaccine irrespective of where they are within countries. I am sorry if there are specifics that I cannot go into, because they are matters for discussion, and no Minister would provide that detail if it is yet to be determined. However, I challenge him. The UK Government have been leading the charge in our response to this global pandemic. The British Government, under this Prime Minister, have ensured that the facility that we now have, through the COVAX AMC, will provide for the most vulnerable around the world. That is something not to be proud of, but to recognise.

[Lord Berkeley of Knighton (CB) [V]]

My Lords, I am proud of and recognise the initiative, and I congratulate the Government on it. However, to reinforce slightly what I think the noble Baroness, Lady Sugg, was trying to say, given that we have had a cut in overseas development aid, it would be wonderful if we could make this a real gift and not one that needs to be underwritten by anybody else.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I have already said where we are on ODA. As ever, I make note of the strong sentiments in your Lordships’ House.