Land Use Commission

Lord Berkeley of Knighton Excerpts

Monday 22nd May 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

They are already benefiting from ELMS. We are working hard to ensure that they can benefit from not just the sustainable farming incentive but all the other parts of the schemes that we are bringing forward. Areas of countryside stewardship have always been a problem with landlord and tenant. We are trying to iron those things out and ensure that we are providing a future of support for all parts of the farming sector.

[Lord Berkeley of Knighton (CB)]

My Lords, to what extent does the Minister see a connection between this problem and the dearth of people going into agriculture as a job, compounded by the problem that those people find, especially in less favoured areas, in getting housing at an affordable price?

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

The noble Lord identifies a strange social phenomenon which is going on, where people who can afford to live in villages are driving into towns to commute or work there, and they are passing people who cannot afford to live in the villages but who work on the farms or in the countryside around them. We have a very clear, determined policy to extend the exception site housing scheme and support local authorities, parish councils and those communities which want to grow organically. Providing affordable housing in rural areas is key.

National Food Strategy Independent Review

Lord Berkeley of Knighton Excerpts

Tuesday 20th July 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

Australia is a country that shares our values and it is important that we have a free trade agreement with it. The noble Baroness will be pleased that it contains a chapter on animal welfare, which is often overlooked in criticisms. I assure her that the Government’s commitment to standards will be underpinned throughout all the trade agreements we sign.

[Lord Berkeley of Knighton (CB) [V]]

Would the noble Lord accept and consider two points? It is not just sugar or salt but the combination of the two that often makes many foods moreish, if not addictive—Chinese takeaways and tomato ketchup, for example. Secondly, it is not just obesity that we should worry about, as another noble Lord said, but the chemical and psychological effect on mood and behaviour. Anyone with children knows the hyper-effect of sugar on children’s moods.

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

One of the most fascinating parts of the report was when it spoke about satiety. The junk food cycle is based on the desire to eat more than we need to feel sated. That is a real problem and a cycle that we have to break if we are to tackle obesity and other wider health issues.

Direct Payments to Farmers (Reductions and Simplifications) (England) (Amendment) Regulations 2021

Lord Berkeley of Knighton Excerpts

Monday 22nd March 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Berkeley of Knighton (CB) [V]]

My Lords, I rather feel that the noble Earl, Lord Caithness, should be congratulating those of us who have not come in but are speaking from home. This is quite an important point; I do not want the public to get the wrong impression from looking at this picture of a relatively empty Chamber. As with the noble Baroness, Lady Bennett, my understanding is that the Lord Speaker and the Convenor of the Cross Benches were almost begging us not to come in, to protect the staff and for the safety of other Members. I hope the Minister will reconfirm that.

On the matter at hand, I agree with the noble Earl, Lord Devon, and the noble Lord, Lord Rooker, that forward planning and certainty are essential in any business, but particularly in farming, which is a long-term issue. I am sure that the Minister, being a good Conservative, will take that point. It is very good to have the figures for 2021; I hope that the Minister will be able to reassure us that we will get the follow-on figures as soon as possible.

A point was raised, which also applies to the comments made about hill farming, about how we make a living. I am sitting here on a hill farm; it is very beautiful and I declare my interest as a very small-time farmer compared to some noble Lords. The Minister said that there was money for more productivity; the problem with productivity is that it does not always go hand in hand with conservation. Does he have any thoughts about that?

On young farmers, getting new blood into the farming industry is essential. One way we can sort that out is by thinking about how we make payments and distribute them fairly between landlords, tenants and, very importantly, agents, who are on commission.

The noble Earl, Lord Caithness, mentioned the public. At the top of my hill farm, there is a very beautiful view and people pull in and have a picnic or walk along the top. I am thrilled that they do—they can sit there admiring the view—but I am astonished that they then toss out their sandwich covers and tins. I just cannot understand the mentality. We may need to continue to make the penalties for littering and tipping, which we have talked about before, even more stringent. After all, they go hand in hand with ecology and conservation. This essentially comes down to education. As with so many things, we must do better at explaining to the public why this is such an anti-social thing to do.

However, by and large, I welcome the Government’s thrust here towards a more ecological way of farming and look forward to hearing the Minister’s comments in due course.

Rural Landlords and Land Letting: Reform

Lord Berkeley of Knighton Excerpts

Thursday 21st January 2021 Grand Committee

[Lord Berkeley of Knighton (CB) [V]]

My Lords, I declare my interests as listed in the register. Interestingly, they include having been both a landlord and a tenant, so I see both sides of this argument. I endorse a lot of what the noble Lord, Lord Redesdale, has just said, particularly about finding more ground to plant trees. We have to approach these changes carefully. Noble Lords may recall the 1986 Act, which was intended to help young farmers. It was one of the best examples ever of the law of unintended consequences, in that no new farm tenancies were issued, as far as I know. However, I believe passionately that we need to make it easier for young people to get into farming. Unless you are very rich or you come from a landowning family, there is no chance whatsoever.

Looking at the whole question from the landowner’s point of view, again I think that we have to tread carefully, because people can be encumbered with families who do not farm well. If we extend things too far, you cannot get land back that you might want to use for your own family.

I would like to make one final point, which may not be raised by the other speakers. I feel, especially as we are now going to move to a new subsidy system, that we need to look carefully at how this is regulated and what clarity is given to it. For example, I have seen agreements where the landlord takes a subsidy and the tenant should pay slightly less, but it does not always work out that way. There have been problems on both sides—I am not blaming one or the other—but it would be useful to have clarity on this. That would help to remove issues that can cause conflict.

Rural Economy

Lord Berkeley of Knighton Excerpts

Thursday 26th November 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble (Con)]

My noble friend is right. Rural areas can be very different from each other, and we believe that local people are often best placed to judge what is right for their communities. For instance, the Government provide grants of up to £18,000 to groups that wish to pursue a neighbourhood plan. Defra itself provides funding to the 38 rural community councils across England.

[Lord Berkeley of Knighton (CB) [V]]

My Lords, I declare my interests as listed in the register. I am sure the Minister will agree that one of the greatest problems in rural communities is employment. Therefore, with the Government moving towards more environmentally friendly support for agriculture, might there not be possibilities to employ more people—for example, to do things that are labour intensive, such as planting trees? Secondly, transport is essential for farm workers. Have the Government thought about how the move to electronic vehicles might impinge on the ability of farm workers, who are on very low salaries, to buy these cars?

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble (Con)]

My Lords, on the transport issue, on Tuesday the Department for Transport launched a call for evidence to shape a future rural transport strategy. I shall take back to the department what the noble Lord said. On the economy, everything that we have been doing, not only through the Covid crisis but throughout, is to ensure that there are vibrant opportunities and indeed many small and medium-sized enterprises in the countryside, which we wish to support.

Organic Products (Production and Control) (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2020

Lord Berkeley of Knighton Excerpts

Tuesday 10th November 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Berkeley of Knighton (CB) [V]]

My Lords, I refer to my farming interests, as listed in the register.

I, too, support the Government in their efforts to retain continuity of regulation in these important areas. The move towards ever more organic food and farming methods can only be a good thing for health and the environment, but are the Government confident that the paperwork that will be required from producers, especially regarding Northern Ireland, is in place?

When we discussed pesticides last week in your Lordships’ House, I was pleased to hear the noble Lord, Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park, say that, as we left the CAP, his Government would be strenuously moving to an ethos of sustainability. I am sure that the Minister would understand that small farms find it very hard economically to make the transition to organic. Here in mid-Wales, I have seen several of them falter on the way. I hope this is an area which he and his department might look at sympathetically in the future.

On genetically modified organisms, the checks and balances are, of course, essential, and we must ensure that no loosening of the reins can occur. Having said that, research here in this country has very real benefits in areas such as Africa, where conditions require special crops that can withstand drought, blight and insect predators. These are of huge significance to feeding an ever-growing and often starving population, and, of course, there are knock-on effects in domestic agriculture.

One of the great virtues of your Lordships’ House, in my humble opinion, is the sheer diversity of expertise on offer, so it is a very real pleasure to precede and welcome my noble friend Lord Mendoza. His knowledge of publishing, churches, painting and culture suggest that he will make valuable contributions to your Lordships’ deliberations. I am very much looking forward to his maiden speech.

Floods and Water (Amendment etc.) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019

Lord Berkeley of Knighton Excerpts

Tuesday 22nd January 2019 Lords Chamber

I remind the Government that, in this reasonable and sensible way of passing what we have on to the future were we to leave the European Union, we are only where we are because of the European Union. Those of us who had to fight that through the other House will recognise just how much we owe to our membership, just how much danger we are in by leaving, just how little the Government have already promised us, just how little there appears to be in the environment Bill, as far as we know, and just how much we will have to fight to maintain the standards in Britain if we are to leave the European Union—which is why it is barmy to do so.

[Lord Berkeley of Knighton (CB)]

My Lords, I will introduce the words “climate change” at this point, simply because it seems, to follow on slightly from the noble Lord, Lord Deben, that constancy and vigilance will be particularly important. If one thinks of the extremes of climate change that we are already experiencing—and there is every indication that it will get much worse—the constancy that the Minister is speaking about becomes extremely important. At times of drought and of far too much rain, many things start to go wrong. Drought is the obvious one, as you do not have enough water, but when there is too much rain—I speak as somebody who lives on a farm—you start getting an enormous amount of run-off of chemicals into the rivers, and things like that. Therefore, this constancy towards regulation, wariness for the future and extreme vigilance are incredibly important in this area.

[Baroness Byford (Con)]

My Lords, I will add just a couple of things. I thank my noble friend the Minister for so clearly setting out the objectives of these transfer regulations, because that is what we are discussing, while looking to the reports in the future. Like other noble Lords, I look forward to the setting up of the environmental body, because it is key to future regulation and checks and balances on what happens. Clearly, it is not good just to have reports; actions need to follow on from them. That has not quite been touched on today.

I will follow the noble Lord who spoke just now of droughts and the rain position. The Minister will know, because I raised it with him quietly earlier, the difficulty that some farmers are having in drought areas. I refer in particular to the position of Norfolk, which was referred to earlier, and the difficulty that farmers there are having because the Environment Agency is dragging its feet and not getting on with the business of giving answers to questions that are raised. Although it is not clear, because it does not quite fall within the remit of these regulations, it raises another issue altogether. We want to make sure that the various organisations that exist now and which are responsible for making things happen are doing the job that they should be doing. If they are not, who then holds them to account? I think it would be the new environment body, but I worry that if we are not careful, we will have so many different bodies, and at the end of the day, who will be in control of saying yes or no? It should be the Government of the day, but the Government of the day have passed some of these responsibilities on to well-established bodies. Clearly, however, in this case the job is not being done, which is causing immense angst for those who are in business there. Without having those sorts of issues settled on what they can and cannot abstract, in future their businesses will be very much in jeopardy.

Ivory Bill

Lord Berkeley of Knighton Excerpts

Monday 10th September 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Crathorne (Con)]

My Lords, I will briefly comment on Amendment 17, from the noble Lord, Lord Cormack, and Amendment 18. We have heard from the noble Duke, the Duke of Wellington, about items in his collection which exceed 320 square centimetres. That seems enormously restrictive. It would surely be better to remove that restriction so that anyone judging a miniature would have the ability to decide whether it was something worth saving and looking after. It is very restrictive to set the threshold at 320 square centimetres.

On Amendment 18, I think it is going to be so difficult to accurately assess the 10% threshold. I am at a slight loss to know why, if musical instruments may have up to 20% ivory content, it cannot be 20% across the board. As we have heard, in such countries as France, it is already 20%. I urge the Minister to perhaps give that a little more thought.

[Lord Berkeley of Knighton (CB)]

My Lords, I wonder if I might add another sentence or two to what we have just heard and to what I spoke about at Second Reading. I reiterate that there are several hundred thousand bows for string instruments in the United Kingdom alone. They have ivory or mammoth faces weighing less than one or two grams. Some of these will be 200 years old—

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton]

We will be discussing musical instruments in the next group.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Beith (LD)]

My Lords, it is a great pleasure to follow the noble Baroness, Lady Quin, and I thank her for bringing this amendment forward. Throughout most of my adult life I have had much pleasure from hearing the Northumbrian pipes. They are a sweet sounding, relatively quiet instrument—often played indoors—and were the musical instrument of many shepherds and farmworkers in the area that I used to represent. Subsequent generations of pipers have often come from other walks of life—teachers who have been in a variety of professions—but the core of people on whom the musical repertoire of the pipes has depended, and whose tunes are recorded, came from the farming life of Northumberland.

I want the Minister to understand how important this is to us and how strongly we are pleading for him to do something about what is now seen as a threat, particularly to the new pipers—young people and, sometimes, those in retirement—who have to acquire an instrument. We are talking about an instrument of which there are not large numbers. The noble Lord, Lord Berkeley of Knighton, mentioned how many thousands of violin and cello bows there are in this country. The sets of Northumbrian pipes are numbered in hundreds—not thousands—and it is quite hard to acquire a set now that there are so few remaining craftsmen who make these instruments. Most of the people who are involved in this activity are not wealthy and if the supply is artificially restricted by the exclusion of so many instruments which were made before 1975 and have ivory content, it would be a very serious threat.

I confess that I have difficulty understanding how the 20% exemption could be applied in the area of Northumbrian pipes, although the Minister gave me a moment of hope when he referred to integral voids, such as the area of an interior of a drawer in a chest of drawers. My mind immediately went to the bag in which the air is pumped in from the bellows, which the piper operates with his or her arm. The bellows could at least be inflated when the judgment is made as to what the integral void is and whether it passes the 20% exemption. Describing that illustrates how worrying it would be if we have to depend on such a concept in order to get a reasonable exemption, which I am sure most people, looking at it rationally, would realise was necessary and was not a coach and horses.

What worries me is that there has been a lot of engagement and discussion with various trades and activities about this Bill. Not all of it has led to the outcomes that some would have desired, as the noble Lord, Lord Cormack, has pointed out. I am not convinced that there has been enough engagement yet with Northumbrian pipers and those who are concerned for their welfare. I want the Minister to give us some assurance that he will try to ensure that that engagement takes place and that, by the time we reach Report, there is some way of dealing with this problem. I know that there is pressure not to amend this Bill so that it sails back to the House of Commons, but we are a revising Chamber and it is our job to discover if there are areas where the Bill does not meet the practical requirements of our society. If it is necessary to make a small amendment to the Bill better to meet the needs of Northumbrian pipers, the Minister must be ready to make that amendment, unless he finds a non-statutory way of achieving it. I have not yet seen that, so I think we will need an amendment at a later stage and I hope the Minister will apply himself to the task of finding a solution.

[Lord Berkeley of Knighton]

My Lords, I apologise for jumping the gun earlier—perhaps I should say for coming in on an upbeat rather than a downbow. I support Amendment 26A tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Cormack, which is very precise. I reiterate that there are several hundred thousand bows in the United Kingdom alone that have either ivory or mammoth faces weighing less than 1 or 2 grams, which is really minuscule. Some of these will be 200 years old and as musicians buy and sell bows regularly, this volume of permits will have to be redone every few years. The resources required for that would surely be much better directed towards the problem itself, towards protecting elephants and prosecuting the criminals who try to make money out of ivory. I say to the Minister that I completely understand and endorse the desire to make the Bill strong and as watertight as possible but surely there has to come a point, when we are talking about such a tiny thing that does not threaten living elephants in the slightest, where we have to apply common sense.

Lastly, I know there was a meeting of some of the ivory team at Defra, and they indicated to a bow maker that they would not be entirely against this. I can give the Minister more information on that if he would like it.

Ivory Bill

Lord Berkeley of Knighton Excerpts

2nd reading (Hansard): House of Lords
Tuesday 17th July 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Berkeley of Knighton (CB)]

My Lords, I want to bring to the Minster’s attention some specific concerns on behalf of the musical community. I will focus on comments already touched on by the noble Lord, Lord Clement-Jones, the noble Baroness, Lady Quin, and just now the noble Lord, Lord Carrington of Fulham. In passing, I pay tribute to the majestic trumpetings of the noble Lord, Lord Hague, on behalf of the African elephant, but I am afraid that I will focus more on string instruments than trumpets.

Before I do, I must say emphatically that I have no doubt that every member of the musical community is entirely in sympathy with and strongly supports the overriding aims of the Government’s Bill, as do I. However, I have received representation from two very distinguished musicians in particular: the ex-director of the Royal Academy of Music, Sir Curtis Price, and the present director, Jonathan Freeman-Attwood. They focused on young musicians and students, so what follows comes with much academic muscle. Furthermore, we have received expert advice from Peter Beare of Beare’s, the leading maker, repairer and dealer of string instruments, and violins in particular. He has been in touch with Defra for several years but says that just as we seemed to be getting somewhere with the department, the Bill could present a potential setback. The ban could cause real hardship for professional string players, especially young ones and students.

The proposed UK ivory ban has the potential to make life extremely difficult and expensive for almost all violinists, violists and cellists. Beare says that Defra has been extremely helpful in providing an exemption which will cover most of the historic instruments and, perhaps more relevant to most players, their bows. However, there are a few problems. Everyone will need to obtain an exemption certificate from the department before they can apply for a CITES permit that will allow them to sell anything—such as most bows—that has an ivory part, however small. They will be able to obtain these certificates only if they can provide proof that the ivory was used before 1975, which could be difficult in many cases, especially for an 18-year-old student. No bows made after 1975, the date when Asian elephants were listed, will be allowed to be sold, even though the African ivory used for bows was not listed until 1990. As I say, this will particularly hurt younger musicians in the pocket. What are they to do with those dates between 1975 and 1990? It is also proposed that mammoth ivory, extinct and therefore not listed, might be added to the ban. It may astonish noble Lords, as it astonished me, to hear that mammoth has been used as the only suitable replacement by the trade since the 1990s, both on new bows and in restoration work. This potential ban could exacerbate the problem.

Beare suggests that a total, paperwork-free exemption—for example, 5 gram de minimis—for ivory of any sort on bows might be possible. A violin bow face weighs less than 1 gram and a cello bow face about 2 grams. We are talking about tiny amounts. I asked Peter Beare this morning if any other material could be used for new bows and repairs, and he said that metal had been tried but that no material was as good as ivory. However, we are talking about a tiny amount, sourced only ever from elephants who had died of old age or the excavated remains of mammoths. Is it not rather wonderful that the remains of old animals who have led a full and complete life should then sing their way to a form of musical immortality in the hands of young musicians?

Rural Areas: Income

Lord Berkeley of Knighton Excerpts

Tuesday 7th March 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, I will make sure that the noble Lord receives a copy of the new, revised rural-proofing guidance. I have been working with my honourable friend Ben Gummer, the Minister for the Cabinet Office, on this. It is important that all departments across Whitehall understand the issues of rural communities. As Minister for Rural Affairs, I am on a number of ministerial task forces—connectivity and housing, to mention two—precisely to ensure that the rural voice is heard.

[Lord Berkeley of Knighton (CB)]

My Lords, given what the Minister has just said, is he concerned by the fact that in many rural and underprivileged areas libraries and leisure centres are under threat? These are the very places that offer a glimmer of light to people who lead rather dark lives in terms of entertainment and education.

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, this rather takes me back to my DCMS days. One thing that very much strikes me is how vibrant so many rural communities are. Certainly in my part of Suffolk, the amount of cultural activities going on—in dance, theatre and music—is incredible. We all want to improve that and have greater accessibility to those things, but the noble Lord may be painting a rather too pessimistic picture.