Windsor Framework (Enforcement etc.) Regulations 2023

Debate between Lord Benyon and Lord Dodds of Duncairn

Tuesday 19th September 2023 Grand Committee

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

I thank noble Lords for their contributions to this debate. A number of questions have been asked; I will endeavour to answer them all. I will start by answering the point that the noble Baroness, Lady Anderson, just raised. We want power-sharing to restart and decisions about the lives of people and businesses in Northern Ireland to be taken by people in Northern Ireland. We really do want to see that happen as soon as possible, of course.

I will tackle the points more or less as they were raised, but I apologise if I mix them all up. The Windsor Framework achieves a long-standing UK government objective to restore the smooth flow of trade within the UK internal market by pursuing a green lane for the movement of goods from GB to Northern Ireland, supporting Northern Ireland’s place in the UK. It restores the smooth flow of trade within the UK internal market by removing the unnecessary burdens that have disrupted east-west trade. At the same time, the Windsor Framework recognises the need to protect the biosecurity of the island of Ireland, which, as the noble Baroness, Lady Ritchie, pointed out, has been treated as a single epidemiological unit for decades. It is the case that some checks, such as those on live animals, were required from GB to Northern Ireland prior to EU exit and before the old Northern Ireland protocol was implemented to protect the integrity of this single epidemiological unit. I say to the noble Lord, Lord Morrow, that this is about achieving unfettered access for Northern Ireland to Great Britain in trade terms, but this SI is about Great Britain to Northern Ireland.

A number of noble Lords asked about the practical consequences, so let us discuss what would happen if this SI were not taking place or if it were not approved by Parliament. The consequences would be the UK failing to comply with its legal duties and international obligations under the Windsor Framework. This statutory instrument forms part of the Defra Windsor Framework legislation that must be in force by 1 October 2023. It is therefore also required to establish, maintain and support the arrangements agreed under the Windsor Framework.

Specifically, this SI in Defra’s legislative package is required to enable the necessary enforcement of GB standards for goods moving under the Northern Ireland retail movement scheme when placed on the market in Northern Ireland. To protect public health and ensure food safety in Northern Ireland, authorities in Northern Ireland will be able to check and remove non-compliant goods from sale. That will ensure that consumers in Northern Ireland are protected by the same high standards as those in Great Britain. The risk of not proceeding would be insufficient public health and food safety protections for consumers in Northern Ireland, meaning that Northern Ireland consumers were less well protected than those elsewhere in the United Kingdom, severely undermining consumer confidence in the Northern Ireland food system. That risk is significant, and any non-legislative alternatives fall short of addressing it.

[Lord Dodds of Duncairn (DUP)]

Is the Minister implying that until the moment when the checks will be done, Northern Ireland has been at grave risk for many decades as GB goods and agri-food produce flowed into Northern Ireland? Is he saying that for all those years we were at terrible risk?

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

No, of course not, but we want to have the same measures in place in Northern Ireland that people in Great Britain have. It will also ensure that for certain plants and other objects, which I have already discussed, moving from GB to Northern Ireland under the Northern Ireland plant health label scheme sufficient enforcement powers are available in GB and Northern Ireland. Without those enforcement powers, there would be a risk that biosecurity concerns related to non-compliance with the Northern Ireland plant health label scheme would be insufficiently addressed.

Consultation was raised by a number of noble Lords. Due to the timescales for the introduction of this statutory instrument, as conferred by the legal text of the Windsor Framework, to which the UK is a committed signatory, and the urgency of ensuring effective enforcement provisions are in place, it has not been possible to consult on this document. However, the arrangements agreed under the Windsor Framework are based on extensive engagement with industry and stakeholders in Northern Ireland over the past two years.

Defra continues to engage with businesses through regular forums, including the weekly NI-GB Food Supply Chain Forum, frequently attended by over 200 representatives of organisations across the supply chain, alongside ad hoc engagement. In addition, we have published detailed guidance regarding the Northern Ireland retail movement scheme online and are running a series of training sessions for businesses on how to move goods under the Windsor Framework arrangements. We responded to concerns that were raised through this process and we continue to have engagement with businesses, including sharing early versions of guidance with key retailers and consulting businesses wherever flexibilities regarding the scheme, or pragmatic solutions to challenges, are forthcoming. We continue to build our offer to businesses, including: running a fortnightly whole supply chain forum that is regularly attended; a weekly engagement call with retailers; weekly webinars; training sessions; guidance published on GOV.UK; the circulation and regular iteration of a new frequently asked questions document; a dedicated inbox traders can direct their questions to; and, as I say, more engagement besides.

The noble Baroness, Lady Ritchie, and a number of others talked about the impact assessment. A de minimis assessment has been completed for this statutory instrument, in line with standard practices and thresholds for the evaluation of impacts where these are expected to fall under £5 million. The overall impact of the Windsor Framework is positive, as it aims to ease the movement of goods between Great Britain and Northern Ireland, and this statutory instrument is a necessary part of implementing the framework. We have evaluated the specific impact of this SI. There are no significant costs to businesses, no significant impact on charities or voluntary bodies and no significant impact on the public sector.

The noble Lord, Lord Morrow, raised a further point on disapplication. Disapplication and derogations from EU law agreed under the Windsor Framework mean that the EU has to change its law, which of course it has to do under EU regulations. This is none the less implementing the bilateral agreement between the United Kingdom and the EU. The Windsor Framework takes effect through a range of mechanisms, including amendments to the text of the framework formally known as the Northern Ireland protocol, unilateral and joint declarations, and new UK and EU legislation. The EU has made new legislation to implement its obligations under the bilateral agreement between the United Kingdom and the EU.

The noble Baroness, Lady Ritchie, asked about the SPS veterinary agreement. We have always been clear that the UK Government could not accept a veterinary agreement that is based on dynamic alignment with EU rules in perpetuity, and the EU has only ever proposed a veterinary agreement that is based on dynamic alignment. Through the Windsor Framework, the UK Government have committed to the construction of SPS inspection facilities. The Secretary of State for my department took powers earlier this year to progress construction of SPS inspection facilities. Permanent facilities will be ready by 1 July 2025 and an additional, temporary product inspection facility at Belfast port has been constructed and will be ready to conduct additional sanitary and phytosanitary checks from 1 October 2023 as the new schemes go live. I know there has been consultation between DAERA and the EU: that was happening last week and I know there was some involvement in that.

The noble Lord, Lord Dodds, asked why this SI was not laid earlier and why additional scrutiny was not possible. He mentioned the parliamentary Recess. I just say that it was not possible to lay these regulations earlier. The Windsor Framework was agreed on 27 February. Since then, detailed policy development and further engagement with the EU and with devolved Administrations has been required to finalise the arrangements. As this SI implements these arrangements, it was not possible to lay this SI before finalising the details. Some provisions within the Windsor Framework (Retail Movement Scheme) Regulations were required to take effect on 1 September. This was to ensure that traders have sufficient time to register for the scheme ahead of it taking effect on 1 October.

A number of noble Lords mentioned seed potatoes. The Northern Ireland plant health label scheme means that previously banned seed potatoes will once again be able to move to Northern Ireland from other parts of the UK, while remaining prohibited in the Republic of Ireland. The movement of seed potatoes is permitted using a Northern Ireland plant health label, rather than a costly phytosanitary certificate. Great Britain seed potatoes can be moved between professional operators for commercial growing in Northern Ireland. Once seed potatoes have been planted and grown into potatoes for consumption, they can be sold, including into the EU. If the seed potatoes are grown to produce further seed potatoes that meet the requirements of Northern Ireland’s classification scheme, the harvested seed potatoes will be eligible for sale and marketing to consumers and businesses in Northern Ireland and the EU.

The Government are committed to ensuring that the Windsor Framework’s benefits are realised for the benefit of businesses and people in Northern Ireland and across the UK in a manner that meets our international obligations. Therefore, we continue to take forward work to implement the Windsor Framework and engage with Northern Ireland parties as part of those efforts.

A number of noble Lords mentioned trees. The EU’s risk assessment process for the movement of so-called high-risk trees will be expedited. Once approved, they will move from Great Britain to Northern Ireland, within the Northern Ireland plant health label. We prioritised removing bans on the movement of the plants and trees of greatest importance to industry: seed potatoes, which I have already mentioned, and the 11 most important GB-native and other commonly grown trees. Since the signing of the Windsor Framework, eight dossiers have been approved, with the ban on movement lifted on privet, hawthorn, apple, crab-apple and four species of maple. Another three dossiers, covering English oak, sessile oak and beech, are going through the process, with votes due imminently. We will continue to work with industry to make the case to lift the ban on other species, where there is a demand to do so. As dossiers are approved, they will be published on the plant health portal.

The noble Lord, Lord Browne, and others talked about whether this new arrangement was more burdensome than the STAMNI. The STAMNI was designed and implemented as a temporary measure to give retailers time to adapt to the requirements of the protocol. The Government have taken action to secure a sustainable, permanent exemption from these requirements for retailers. The Northern Ireland retail movement scheme provides a much broader scope than current arrangements in both the businesses that can benefit from these facilitations and the products eligible to move. For example, goods that meet GB public health, marketing and organics standards can move into Northern Ireland under the scheme. Goods that have been subject to additional certification, including certain chilled meat products such as sausages, will now be able to move under the single, per-consignment certificate.

Membership of the scheme is broader, too, covering hospitality, those providing food to the public sector and wholesalers supplying smaller retail outlets in Northern Ireland. Scheme membership can be easily updated, with businesses able to join and leave the scheme as their supply chains evolve.

[Lord Dodds of Duncairn (DUP)]

These are important matters of detail. Can the Minister set out the trees and plants that are banned after the 11 dossiers have been fulfilled and all the rest of it? This is important because, as the Minister may be aware, the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland gave fairly fulsome assurances publicly on television, even when challenged by journalists, that all these matters would flow smoothly and there would be no inhibitions for plants, trees and so on coming to Northern Ireland. I would be grateful if the Minister set out in writing to me and other Members of the Committee what is allowed and what is banned; what may be sold through garden centres commercially and what may be sent to individual consumers.

On seed potatoes, I think the Minister said that professional companies could sell to other organisations. What is the position with selling directly to consumers so that people can buy these things at garden centres and so on? I know that he has set out some broad-brush things, but it is that sort of detail that really matters to people on the ground.

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

I entirely understand the need for detail; I want to get the detail right and, therefore, I will write to the noble Lord giving that absolute clarity.

The noble Baroness, Lady Bakewell, asked about fish. This SI simply ensures that the marketing and labelling standards for fish products in place in Great Britain are also in place and enforceable in Northern Ireland for products moving through the Northern Ireland retail scheme.

I think I have covered as many points raised by noble Lords as I can. I thank noble Lords for their contributions.

Official Controls (Northern Ireland) Regulations 2023

Debate between Lord Benyon and Lord Dodds of Duncairn

Wednesday 1st March 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

I am happy to talk to the noble Lord after this and clarify that point. Time is moving on.

I was talking about an important safeguard for Northern Ireland businesses. It means that they and they alone benefit from being part of the UK’s internal market. Irish businesses are not part of this and should not benefit from the green lane. Indeed, the implementation of the Windsor Framework can give Northern Irish businesses a competitive advantage over those in the south. We will encourage Irish firms to relocate jobs and investment into Northern Ireland.

The improvement of these facilities is also an important part of providing safe conditions for staff and animal welfare. The present contingency facilities were constructed at speed to allow controls to be delivered when we left the EU. Improving the facilities will ensure that consignments, including for live animal movements, move quickly through ports and on to final destinations, which could include Northern Irish farms. These arrangements are needed for Northern Ireland—its businesses and its reputation for high health status and high-quality agriculture and food production.

I turn to questions of timing and procedure for the introduction of this legislation, as raised by noble Lords. This legislation is time critical. As I set out, the conditions of the current facilities are of concern for both animal and staff welfare reasons. We want to ensure that, as above, the benefits of the new green lane are felt only by internal UK trade and that Irish traders are subject to full EU law checks and controls, as we have always said.

On process, although a public consultation was not required for this legislation as it relates to the implementation of an existing commitment and introduces no new policy, my officials and ministerial colleagues have engaged with industry and businesses extensively over the last two years and will continue to do so. Defra hosts a weekly forum attended by, on average, 150 businesses and organisations across Northern Ireland and Great Britain’s food supply chain, where people can raise issues, hear information and share their views. We have engaged with Northern Irish businesses, for which the integrity and reputation of their goods, from farm to fork, is critical to their success and viability. A useful example is milk; 30% of Northern Ireland’s milk is processed in the Republic, and milk and milk products were worth over £126 million in gross added value to Northern Ireland in 2020.

On the implications of this legislation for the devolution settlement, I reaffirm that the Government recognise that the delivery of these facilities is a devolved responsibility. In the absence of a Northern Ireland Executive and Assembly, it falls to the UK Government to be able to take that work forward.

I hope I have reassured noble Lords on the scope and aim of this statutory instrument. We have had a long, wide-ranging debate, but this is specifically about SPS measures that we need to put in place regardless of the changes, welcome though they may be, that have been announced in the last few days. I hope that, as the benefits we will draw from the historic Windsor Framework become apparent, we will put in place this week measures to ensure that we have proper sanitary and phytosanitary facilities in four ports in Northern Ireland. That is what the statutory instrument seeks to do. I hope I have persuaded the noble Lord, Lord Dodds, not to press his fatal Motion.

[Lord Dodds of Duncairn (DUP)]

My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for what he has said and I thank all noble Lords who have taken part in this debate. It is usual to say it has been a wide-ranging debate, and we can certainly agree on that if not much else at times.

I do not want to go back over some of the elements of this debate, but I want to say something in response to the noble Lord, Lord Bew. He ended on a note of challenge to us, saying that we have got what we wanted but are still not happy. I want to make a point, and it is worth putting on the record. He says that we demand a cross-community vote, whether or not we accept the protocol. That is a legitimate request because it is in keeping with the Belfast agreement. That has been changed and I have outlined the reasons why it is unacceptable. He then said that we have got a cross-community vote in relation to the Stormont brake and are still not happy. But the majority vote that has been granted to the Assembly in 2024 puts an end to the current protocol and instigates a period of negotiation for something new. The cross-community vote under the Stormont brake does not veto the law. It does not give the right to the Assembly to change anything, and that is the fundamental difference.

The devil is in the detail. We have heard the grand statements. We heard tonight that SPS checks have always happened between Great Britain and Northern Ireland, but the noble Lord, Lord Moylan, is exactly right on the facts of that matter. It is easy to make wide-ranging statements and claim wonderful progress when you do not actually look at the details. People are saying that we now have free access between Great Britain to Northern Ireland for all goods coming through border control posts, but as I have pointed out—and nobody has challenged this—even for goods coming from Great Britain to Northern Ireland in the green channel, customs forms will have to be filled in. That is an Irish Sea border. Where else between any country or region of the United Kingdom does anyone have to fill in a customs form to transfer goods, and be subject to checks and to giving all the data and information to the European Union? Where else does anyone have to put goods that nobody can certify for definite will go into the Irish Republic down into the red lane, where the full checks of an international customs barrier are implemented?

We need to get real about this. No one need lecture me about entering and making agreements. I was part of the leadership of the Democratic Unionist Party that sat down and entered government with Sinn Féin, and shared power for years with it on a more stable basis than the Ulster Unionists did previously, when they had the majority. These are people who went out to murder our kith and kin, and who targeted my family visiting a hospital and tried to murder me. My noble friend Lord McCrea’s house was riddled with bullets. We sat down and shared power with them. They still eulogise these terrorists and murderers; they still praise and elevate them. The Minister is right to raise the matter of DCI Caldwell, and we have already expressed our sympathy and wish him well. Sinn Féin stand today and condemn that murder and say it is terrible, but the very same Ministers and leaders of Sinn Féin will stand up and eulogise and praise the murderers of police officers in front of their children—today.

We are still willing to enter government and to move forward with the people of Northern Ireland. Nobody need lecture us about being unreasonable. We agreed the New Decade, New Approach agreement. We agreed the various agreements down through the years. There is no one who should point the figure. At St Andrews, Ian Paisley made that historic agreement with Martin McGuinness. People have this idea that it is no to everything.

We will insist on our rights as British citizens. All we demand is equal citizenship. People talk about not wanting to create a hard border on the island of Ireland. We do not want a hard border. We have never sought a hard border on the island of Ireland. But we will not accept a hard border between Northern Ireland and the rest of the United Kingdom. What do we mean by a hard border? What was it defined as by Sinn Féin and nationalist leaders, and by Leo Varadkar? As anything that changed—even a camera was not acceptable. How ridiculous. But for Northern Ireland there is the full panoply of border control posts, and officials jointly responsible to the EU and the UK, sharing data—all the things that are relevant to a third country. Britain is now designated for customs and trade purposes as a third country as far as Northern Ireland is concerned.

These things matter and that is why we are sitting tonight debating these issues—I wish that we could have debated them earlier and we would all be long home, but sadly that was out of our control. However, when we do debate these matters, we feel very strongly about what has been imposed. We will look in detail at all the issues that have been brought forward in this new deal. I hesitate to call it the Windsor agreement because the King was dragged into this whole affair needlessly and wrongly in a somewhat counterproductive, crass attempt to sell it to unionists—the Government should have known better and thought much more about that, as well as the overegging and overselling of it.

We will look at these issues in detail, but what we have seen thus far makes us question some of the propaganda and the claims that have been made. Be honest about it, tell us exactly what is going to happen regarding the equal citizenship of the people of Northern Ireland; do not claim that we are equal citizens and then put in place barriers between our citizenship—between Northern Ireland and the rest of the United Kingdom. We are prepared to make sacrifices to move Northern Ireland forward, but we will not sacrifice our equal citizenship within the United Kingdom.

Veterinary Personnel

Debate between Lord Benyon and Lord Dodds of Duncairn

Wednesday 23rd March 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

I think it very important to say that there is no threat to human health resulting from the shortage of official veterinarians working in abattoirs. There is adequate coverage. It is a problem, and we are seeking to address it in a number of ways that I have already stated, and others. I hope we can reassure the public that, while there is a shortage, there is no risk to public health.

[Lord Dodds of Duncairn (DUP)]

My Lords, officials at the agriculture department in Northern Ireland have indicated that, if and when the so-called grace periods under the protocol end, the number of agri-food certificates needing processing will be close to the number currently processed by the European Union as a whole. It is 20% even as things stand. That would require an enormous number of vets, and the Chief Veterinary Officer has said that he simply does not have them. Apart from the principle that these checks are unacceptable, they simply are not workable in practice. What are the Government doing about it?

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

The Chief Veterinary Officer for Northern Ireland recently referred to

“available veterinary resource located in Northern Ireland points of entry, delivering efficient controls on sanitary and phytosanitary goods entering Northern Ireland through third countries and Great Britain”.

The veterinary resource remains at 12, and the DAERA Minister has put an embargo on further recruitment to operations in ports. In Northern Ireland, official meat inspection in approved slaughterhouses is delivered by a team of DAERA officials, and Northern Ireland meat-inspection services are currently fully resourced.

Livestock Feed: Processed Animal Protein

Debate between Lord Benyon and Lord Dodds of Duncairn

Tuesday 6th July 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

Processed animal proteins have long been established as part of the rendering process. As a result of BSE, changes were made to prevent them. Currently, all processed animal products from this country are exported across the world for the pet food industry. We import vegetable proteins, such as soya, from countries which have much lower standards of agricultural environmental protection. I assure the noble Baroness that we are very cautious in this country about reducing the standards that were brought in at the time of BSE. What we are talking about here is TSE —about pigs, poultry and parts that are heat-treated and are an alternative to the proteins that other farmers use.

[Lord Dodds of Duncairn (DUP)]

My Lords, the Minister has talked about trade; the effect of the Northern Ireland protocol, as agreed, is that these SPS rules and laws apply directly in Northern Ireland, uniquely within the United Kingdom. Therefore, how does he protect consumers within Northern Ireland and, indeed, elsewhere, when not a single Member of the Northern Ireland Assembly or any Member of Parliament in either House will be able to prevent this proposal becoming law in Northern Ireland, which is an outrageous abuse of the sovereignty of Parliament and “taking back control”?

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

I understand the point that the noble Lord makes. The truth is that products will be coming from around the world—from the EU and beyond—into supermarkets in Northern Ireland and the rest of the United Kingdom, as they are this very day. They will be up to a particular standard, and will not be ruminant to ruminant, so in that respect, Northern Ireland will be no different from the rest of the United Kingdom. But I recognise the democratic point the noble Lord makes; that is the issue of the Northern Ireland protocol which, if he will forgive me, I will not go into today.