Domestic Ivory Market

Lord Benyon Excerpts

Monday 6th February 2017 Westminster Hall

[Danny Kinahan (South Antrim) (UUP)]

I congratulate the hon. Member for Thornbury and Yate (Luke Hall) on introducing the debate today and all those who signed the petition, and on the passion behind it, particularly from the hon. Member for Bassetlaw (John Mann).

I am here to speak because I want the ivory ban in place, but I want us to recognise the importance of the antiques trade in this country. In everything we do, we must always find the right balance. It is absolutely right that we ban ivory—I think the phrase used earlier was “a near-complete ban”—and do so as quickly as possible, but we must also recognise ivory’s place in our history and tourism.

I was in Kenya many years ago—it would be terrific to show everyone the wonders of the wildlife there. I remember watching a film of the farmers annihilating some 150 elephants because they kept breaking out of a game park and eating the maize crops. That is the main problem. We should aid those countries so that they can have proper game parks, secure rangers and economies that work. That is where we should concentrate a lot of our effort. The ban would do a little bit to help, but we must recognise that it is just a tiny bit, and that we must do much more work through our aid and world trade.

[Richard Benyon (Newbury) (Con)]

Does the hon. Gentleman concede that people are at the heart of saving the elephant? Work by organisations such as the Northern Rangelands Trust in Kenya has done an enormous amount to make local people understand the value of wildlife. Directing aid and support for communities through that prism is the best possible way to get people and wildlife to live together.

[Danny Kinahan]

I could not have made a better point. We have to educate everyone in the world, and particularly the Chinese, as many have said today. It is also about showing the Africans the benefit and hoping that tourism, wildlife and everything else helps their countries into the future.

The antiques trade here is worth some £13 billion. I do not want to counter the argument for an ivory ban, but I shall give some facts and figures to make us think more about what a total ban would do. One document I was reading said that up to 2025 tourism will be worth £257 billion to the UK—10% of our GDP—and will be responsible for 3.8 million jobs. Tourists visit some 5,000 to 6,000 venues in the UK that have small and sometimes large antique ivory pieces.

We have to be very careful how we tackle the antiques trade. One or two hon. Members have criticised the existing cut-off date of 1947. The convention on international trade in endangered species guidelines are accepted in the trade, including by the people who know best about dates and times. It is better to go down that route than to try and work on carbon dating. Changing the date to 1900 may seem logical, but that takes out the two of the greatest periods in art—art nouveau and art deco.

--- Later in debate ---

[Victoria Borwick]

I think the cost of radiocarbon dating depends on the complexity of the testing required, but I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Mid Derbyshire (Pauline Latham) for her clarification.

The United States Fish and Wildlife Service recognises that antique ivory is a special case that warrants exemptions. People say, “What lessons are we learning from the rest of the world?” Well, in America, although some imports are restricted, federal rules allow trade in legally obtained antique ivory.

[Richard Benyon]

Does not my hon. Friend think it a pity that in this country we are not being consulted on the American system, which I understand uses a rolling 100-year rule? This year, it has moved from 1916 to 1917. We have not been able to hear the antique trade’s view, or anyone else’s, on a 100-year ban. Personally, I would like it to be longer, but there must be a way forward without all this complication. We could register these works of art and then move on with a proper ban that would be respected round the world.

[Victoria Borwick]

That is absolutely the sort of discussion that I know the trade is very willing to hold. I am sure that such a discussion would represent the interests of many hon. Members present and would be a good way of discussing a way forward.

The US Fish and Wildlife Service has stated that old ivory items do not threaten today’s wild elephants, so the point is accepted elsewhere. No one has demonstrated that the UK antiques market contributes to poaching today.

--- Later in debate ---

[Victoria Borwick]

Absolutely—I have no doubt about that at all. There is no dispute there; there is nobody in this Chamber or among those watching who would agree with killing elephants today. The hon. Lady is absolutely right. I am merely saying that, as others have said, when we come up with the new regulations, we must do so very carefully so that we do not destroy what history we do have.

On behalf of the museums I represent in my Kensington constituency, as well as many of the antique dealers, let me say that I genuinely believe—I paraphrase one of the other Members who has spoken—that items of cultural and artistic heritage should continue to be exempt from a trading ban. Our museums rely on, or work with, the trade, in order to continue to develop their own collections. The royal collections have continued to develop and build up their own collections, as was talked about earlier.

The British Museum has stated that restricting the ability of collectors to purchase important works of art would have a detrimental effect on public collections. The British Museum collection includes many significant objects made from ivory from many different cultural traditions, including objects from prehistory that are carved from mammoth ivory and the Lewis chessmen, which are made from walrus ivory. They are integral parts of the museum’s collection and play an indispensable part of its presentation of the history of human cultural achievement.

On this most propitious of days, the Queen’s sapphire jubilee, Members will be familiar with portrait miniatures, which were referred to earlier. These are painted on ivory, as they are viewed as having long-lasting and special properties. We should not be thinking about destroying or not treasuring these things.

[Richard Benyon]

My hon. Friend has twice used the word “destroy”. Who is going to destroy any ivory? As far as I am concerned, that is not part of the Government’s consultation. I do not think that it is the policy of any Member on any side of this argument, if there are different sides of this argument. Nothing will be destroyed; all those pieces of artwork will still exist. What we are talking about is not encouraging ivory to be poached and elephants to be killed because there is a market in ivory today.

[Victoria Borwick]

I absolutely agree with my hon. Friend; nobody wants to destroy anything. I was just getting a bit nervous because of some of the talk earlier, so I stand corrected. I am delighted that everything is going to be saved.

As many Members have already done, I could list examples of how ivory has been used down the centuries. The British Art Market Federation has made copies of its reference document available, and I know that one has been placed in the Commons Library.

To conclude, we must stop the current trading in raw and poached ivory, but that is not the same as trading in antique cultural artefacts. To stop that would be like suggesting that the current threats to whales should prevent the sale of scrimshaw and corset bones in the costume collections in our museums. We must separate modern poaching—I am speaking about the importance of our historical objects, in our constituents’ homes, in our local antique dealers and on display in our world-famous museums.

There is a huge interest in antiques in this country and there must be antique dealers in most Members’ constituencies. The craftsmanship of objects and their historical interest is foremost in the minds of buyers, not the materials used. Many of our constituents will have objects passing through their hands that incorporate ivory, whether little inlays on a desk, a miniature portrait or a tea caddy. A ban would mean that their lawfully acquired possessions would become unsaleable, and not a single elephant would necessarily be saved.

The antiques trade has made it clear that it welcomes the opportunity to share its knowledge by working closely with my hon. Friend the Minister to help to ensure that the proposed ban on the sale of post-1947 items is properly enforced. The trade has a number of ideas for cataloguing, certificating and working together to address the issues raised so forcefully this afternoon. I have no doubt that, working together with the antiques trade, we can ensure that Britain’s heritage is protected for future generations.