Land Registry

Lord Bellingham Excerpts

Tuesday 25th February 2014 Westminster Hall

[Mr Henry Bellingham (North West Norfolk) (Con)]

I have been approached by a number of companies in my constituency, including Norfolk Information Ltd, trading as the Property Search Group, Index Property Information and AW Searches, which is also trading as the Property Search Group. They all say that the changes being proposed are important and that a much longer consultation period is needed, particularly when we are talking about small and medium-sized enterprises, many of which are expanding. As the Minister correctly keeps reminding us, SMEs are the lifeblood of our economy.

[Mrs James]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for that intervention. I will come to the importance of SMEs, the role that they have in the process and how we must protect their interests.

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[Mr Stewart Jackson (Peterborough) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship for the first time, Mr Walker. I congratulate the hon. Member for Swansea East (Mrs James) on her speech, and I would like to put on the record that she will be a loss to the House when she leaves at the general election. She is a diligent and hard-working Member.

Almost four years ago, I stood on the other side of the Chamber opposite the then Justice Minister Michael Wills, who represented North Swindon. During that debate, I argued against the changes to the Land Registry estate that had been mooted by the previous Labour Government. Those changes were driven by the Lyons review of 2004, which focused on capital, land and buildings, and rental values.

I opposed the proposal because the methodology used was flawed, and it was very much a top-line, cost-saving exercise rather than one about efficiency and effectiveness. It did not take into account the great professionalism, esprit de corps and commitment of my constituents, some 210 of whom work in the Land Registry in Peterborough. I seek, as always, to protect the interests of my constituents; those are good-quality, white-collar jobs in Peterborough.

There is a difference between those proposals and the current ones, however. I echo the comments of my hon. Friend the Member for North West Norfolk (Mr Bellingham). There should be a consultation, but the Government should consider extending it because the proposals will have implications for many small and medium-sized enterprises involved in conveyancing and other property-related activities. If there is inherent merit in the Government’s case, I do not think that it will be damaged by extending the consultation.

[Mr Bellingham]

Does my hon. Friend agree that outside London and the south-east the housing market is still quite fragile, so any change in that local authority-based arrangement may lead to a great deal of uncertainty? That is another reason why the consultation period might easily be extended a bit.

[Mr Jackson]

I take my hon. Friend’s point, and I largely agree with him. However, it would be remiss of the Government not to look at different models for the delivery of necessary public services. In some important public service activities, even the previous Government looked at substantial changes in governance. That is the distinction between the proposals enunciated by the previous Government between 2008 and 2010—as hon. Members will have concluded, they resulted in the saving of the Peterborough Land Registry office and others across the country—and the current proposals, which are much more about governance.

For the record, 10 constituents have written to or e-mailed me about the matter, which is substantially fewer than contacted me about the debate four years ago. I make no comment on that; I merely highlight it for comparison. I support a proper debate on the delivery of such an important service, but I have no ideological opposition to the splitting of functions, whereby a GovCo might carry out practical land registration functions separately from the office of the chief land registrar, which is much more policy-based.

I agree that there must be a new business model, not least because we must always be mindful of the fact that our first priority as constituency MPs is to protect our constituents’ job opportunities, as the hon. Member for Wirral South (Alison McGovern) says, particularly in areas with high unemployment. However, we also have a wider responsibility to other stakeholders, including the taxpayer and businesses that rely on the Land Registry being efficient and delivering a good service. It is an important tripartite approach.

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[Mr Charles Walker (in the Chair)]

We have time for three more colleagues with about seven minutes each. Mr Bellingham, are you standing?

[Mr Bellingham]

No.

[Mr Charles Walker (in the Chair)]

I apologise. Mr McDonnell.

[Mr Bellingham]

I may later.

[Mr Charles Walker (in the Chair)]

Very well.

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[Mr Henry Bellingham (North West Norfolk) (Con)]

Of course, Mr Walker. It is a great pleasure to serve under your chairmanship for the first time.

This has been an interesting and important debate. It was brought to my attention by a number of constituents whose companies I mentioned at the start of this debate, when I intervened on the hon. Member for Swansea East (Mrs James). I spent quite a lot of time in the first part of this Parliament, when I was on Her Majesty’s Government’s payroll, going to developing countries. Quite often, I would ask them what more the Department for International Development could do to help in terms of capacity building and improving the standard of government. Time and again, we were told that they really respected our Land Registry and that they wanted help embedding expertise, knowledge and capacity in that area. Obviously, if there is no fit-for-purpose Land Registry system, it will be difficult to have a proper market in property.

I respect the Minister’s intent in all this, but it is incredibly important that we get it right when he finishes the process. I am concerned about a number of points. At the moment, there is no question but that public confidence in the organisation is high. As a number of colleagues have said, the public respect this organisation and have confidence in it. The chief land registrar—the chief executive—has said that the new strategy is all

“around customer needs”

and that the organisation needs to focus on

“our customer needs…to improve our service delivery”.

However, he must be careful, as must the Minister, not to take away home owners’ confidence.

Let me say just a word about this organisation, which is making substantial sums for the Treasury. I do not have any difficulty with privatisation, but I am concerned about an organisation that is successful and making money, remitting a dividend to the Treasury. If that continues, it is good for Government finances and for the Budget deficit. I accept that, if this organisation was privatised at a premium, it would perhaps help pay down the Government national debt by a small amount, but the Minister should also think about the recurring income to the Treasury from the organisation in its current place in the public sector. That is not to say that I rule out any changes in future.

I am concerned about the need for proper consultation. In addition to the names of the companies I mentioned earlier, I shall quote an e-mail from a constituent, who says that 12 months ago he invested in a new property information franchise, which he operates from his home, employing himself and his wife. He says:

“Due to the success of our business, only last week we took office space in Hunstanton”—

a small town in my constituency—

“and employed two local people (both out of work) to keep up with demand”.

He is looking to expand and hopes to take on another four. Over the next few months he may have increased numbers further. He continues:

“These types of jobs are rare in this area and there will be no shortage of local candidates of all ages.”

He wants to build his SME up, but says:

“Needless to say, until we know exactly where Land Registry is going with its plans I am reluctant to push on with my plans”.

I hope that the Minister will meet these SMEs, which are the lifeblood of our constituencies. Will he also ensure that he has a meeting with the Council of Property Search Organisations? If he has already met CoPSO, will he update us on exactly what it said? I hope that he will take on board the strong points that have come out of this debate and, above all else, allow further time for the consultation.