International Development: Co-operation with the EU

Debate between Lord Bates and Lord Grocott

Tuesday 11th December 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bates]

What we have made clear—I made it clear myself at the Foreign Affairs Council on development which I attended in Brussels two weeks ago—is that we believe that the future partnership needs to focus much more on three areas: peace and security; migration, and delivery of the sustainable development goals as part of that; and climate change. We believe that to focus on those and on the least developed countries will be the best way forward. We are making those arguments now because we will continue to be a strong member of the European Union until 29 March.

[Lord Grocott (Lab)]

Given that one crucial element of a successful overseas development policy is to get the aid as rapidly as possible to the front line where it is needed, can the Minister tell us whether any study has been made of whether that is best accomplished via the European Union, with whatever bureaucracy may be involved in that, or by the money and the support going directly to the field—to the mine clearance or whatever it might be—directly from the British Government to the people that need it in the front line?

[Lord Bates]

Indeed. Most of these funding mechanisms are commissioning organisations, either European or through DfID; therefore funds do not actually get delivered by the European institutions. Rather, they commission organisations such as UNICEF or the ICRC to deliver that work on the ground. Most of it is done, essentially, through co-operation through the United Nations: that is what we are all working together for and, of course, that will be subject to no change whatever.

Brexit: Bank of England Report

Debate between Lord Bates and Lord Grocott

Thursday 29th November 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bates]

We do not want to detract from the fact that the Bank of England has a duty to stress-test the economy against a range of possible outcomes. Normally those scenarios are considered in private to inform the work of the various committees of the Bank in reaching their decisions. Perhaps uniquely in this case, they have been made public along with the assumptions which underpin them, as my noble friend has highlighted. However, these are worst-case assumptions. It is right that the Bank should look at a range of outcomes, but it is also right that we should consider other analyses, such as the analysis the Government produced yesterday.

[Lord Grocott (Lab)]

My Lords, in answering the first question the Minister referred to the mismatch between predictions made prior to the referendum about the growth of the economy and what happened subsequent to the referendum—not subsequent to now but subsequent to the referendum. There were numerous forecasts. Will he helpfully put the various forecasts that were made—including from the Treasury and the then Chancellor, for example—in the Library so that we can see the evidence that the Liberal Democrats’ spokesman was asking for and have the facts about the colossal mismatch between previous economic forecasts on this issue and what has actually happened?

[Lord Bates]

We were covering that very point when the Office for Budget Responsibility produced its forecast along with the Autumn Budget. This showed that the forecast made in April about what would happen was underscored, and actually we achieved more. It increased its forecast going forward because it believed there would be more employment, more taxes and less debt.

Gaza

Debate between Lord Bates and Lord Grocott

Wednesday 21st February 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bates]

I certainly echo the view that it is absolutely appalling. The suffering in Gaza is a shame on humanity. Of course, the question then is: what do you do about it and who can unlock this process? We believe that the parties to the conflict have to come together and, in the interests of humanitarian need, resolve their differences. We believe that there is a possibility. We recognise that Israel has taken some steps down this road recently by easing some of the restrictions on access to construction materials. There has been some movement in Cairo in Egypt—of course, Egypt blocks the border to the south as well—where there have been some efforts at reconciliation between Fatah and Hamas. All the elements are there. It is frustratingly close. To see so much suffering continuing is a tragedy.

[Lord Grocott (Lab)]

My Lords, given that the Government’s policy, and that of their predecessor, has for years rightly been to support a two-state solution, is it not something of an anomaly that we recognise only one state in the area? When will the Government give further consideration to the recommendation of this House’s International Relations Committee, which was that we should consider recognition of the state of Palestine? That would be a very significant step forward and give long-overdue dignity to the Palestinian people. When will the Government move in that direction?

[Lord Bates]

It is a very sensitive situation and the noble Lord is right to raise the point. The answer to the very influential report that was prepared is to say that that recognition will come when we believe that it will contribute to helping the peace process. Our belief is that recognition at this stage would not be helpful in the Middle East peace process, continued work on which is our primary concern at this time.

Brexit: Financial Settlement

Debate between Lord Bates and Lord Grocott

Monday 13th November 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bates]

I beg to disagree with my noble friend, although I recognise his immense experience in this area. All that has been proposed is to make explicit what has been implicit and what has been set out in the Florence speech and all the way through the process, ever since Article 50 was triggered.

[Lord Grocott (Lab)]

My Lords, we are back to the question of finance. Can the Minister confirm that over the past 40 years, we have been huge net contributors to EU funds? Can he also confirm that we are currently being asked to pay large sums of money to depart the EU? I wonder if he could get someone from the Commission to come along and explain to the British people—who I think would find it difficult to understand— that the more we pay into the organisation, the more it costs to get out.

[Lord Bates]

The noble Lord is absolutely right in pointing to the fact that there are assets of the European Union. Those are highlighted in the consolidated report and account, the difficulty with which is that it shows assets of £162 billion, but liabilities of £234 billion. In agreeing what our share of the assets is, we also have to be fair and recognise that there may be some concomitant responsibility for some of the liabilities.

Asylum Seekers

Debate between Lord Bates and Lord Grocott

Thursday 28th January 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bates]

We can all be proud of this country’s record in offering asylum to people in need. The EU, which has a relocation scheme—it said that it would get 160,000 people out of the region into and around Europe—has so far managed to relocate 331 people under that scheme. The Prime Minister said in September that we would have 1,000 people from the region here by Christmas. We had more than 1,000 here by Christmas. The Prime Minister announced today that there will be a further review, with UNHCR, to identify unaccompanied children from conflict regions and how they can be helped further. We announced today a further £10 million to help unaccompanied children who are in Europe already. In addition, we are the second largest donor in providing aid to Syria. All that package together shows that we are living up to the high expectations and strong traditions that this country has in dealing with people in need.

[Lord Grocott (Lab)]

Will the Minister, who is characteristically sensitive and careful in his use of language when referring to vulnerable people coming to this country, have a quiet word with the Prime Minister about his language when yesterday he described these people as “a bunch of migrants”?

[Lord Bates]

My Lords, sometimes the other place is not quite the same civilised debating forum as we are on most occasions. However, while people choose phrases in the heat of the moment—I have done it myself—more important are the actions behind the words. Announcing today that we will take in more people from conflict areas and announcing another £10 million to keep pledges to help people from Syria are actions that speak louder than words.

Police and Crime Commissioners

Debate between Lord Bates and Lord Grocott

Wednesday 3rd December 2014 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bates]

First, on the facts, it is not true that half of police and crime commissioners are under investigation; 14 of them were referred to the IPCC for not providing the data that they are required to under the legislation that the noble Baroness referred to, and that case was dismissed. With regard to oversight, it is clear that they are looked into by the independent inspections carried out by the Home Office, and ultimately they will be subject to the inspection of the electorate in 2016.

[Lord Grocott (Lab)]

My Lords, to be perfectly honest, the Minister is in a hopeless position on this issue, as were his predecessors piloting this legislation through with all the warnings that my noble friend has referred to. I ask him, as it is part of the role of Minister in this House, at least to mention to the people back in the Home Office that not a single question today has been supportive of police and crime commissioners. If the concept is as friendless as that in this House, there is a fair chance that it is friendless among large sections of the population.

[Lord Bates]

The noble Lord might also like to ask his colleagues who are serving excellently, including former Ministers such as Tony Lloyd—who commissioned that excellent report by Ann Coffey on child exploitation, which could not have happened before but is happening now under police and crime commissioners—what they think of the law. They seem to support it.