Terminally Ill Adults (End of Life) Bill

Lord Bassam of Brighton Excerpts

Friday 12th December 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Kennedy of Southwark (Lab Co-op)]

My Lords, we have completed four groups of amendments today, which in my opinion is still slow progress. It means that, in four days of Committee, we have completed only 10 groups of amendments. Before we return to Committee in the new year, I think that all noble Lords should reflect on that fact.

The one thing I have achieved today is a run on copies of the Companion. There are now only two copies left in the Printed Paper Office. I draw to the attention of the House page 15, pararaph1.54, which makes clear that:

“The House does not recognise points of order”.


We are a self-regulating House. This is the reason why we say “My Lords” in the House and do not address either the noble Lord on the Woolsack or the noble Lord at the Table. Being a self-regulating House is something we all treasure, but it does call for some self-regulation by all noble Lords.

I will talk again next week to the usual channels. I will also email all noble Lords, to their parliamentary email accounts, with the various references, relevant paragraphs and page numbers. I can recommend chapter 8 as very good festive season reading.

[Lord Bassam of Brighton (Lab)]

I want to ask a question about timing. I have read that, somehow, in the calculation of time allocated for Committee, it is expected that we would have one and a half times the number of Committee hours on a Bill than the other place. My understanding when I was in the usual channels was that we tried to provide, roughly speaking, the same number of Committee hours in your Lordships’ House as they do in another place. I wonder whether the noble Lord could clarify that point.

[Lord Kennedy of Southwark (Lab Co-op)]

I can confirm that I had never heard of the one and a half days figure until I saw the letter that arrived yesterday. We are a self-regulating House. There is no formal algorithm that we use for Committee days. I talk to the usual channels to try to get agreement on the number of Committee days; sometimes I am successful, and sometimes not. There is no formula or algorithm that we use, so I do not recognise the one and a half days comment that was made in the letter circulated yesterday.

Terminally Ill Adults (End of Life) Bill

Lord Bassam of Brighton Excerpts

Committee stage
Friday 14th November 2025 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Coffey (Con)]

The importance of the amendment in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady Finlay of Llandaff, is that, as has already been well described, there are genuine concerns about the appropriateness of the Mental Capacity Act 2005 as it stands. I think also that there has been more interest at this point because, so far, it has not been deemed to be in scope to put an amendment down to amend the Mental Capacity Act 2005—although I noticed that my noble friend Lord Goodman managed to get something in, so I congratulate him on that. That is why it is taking more time to consider aspects of this. I hear a noise—I thought it might have been someone shouting “Order!”, but perhaps it was excitement elsewhere.

I am just conscious that it is without doubt that, in the consideration in the Commons, Professor Sir Chris Whitty—who used to be one of my Permanent Secretaries when I was at the Department of Health and Social Care—suggested that the Mental Capacity Act had a higher test for basically a life or death decision, and then of course changed that evidence. However, I accept that he said, in evidence given orally to the Select Committee in this House, that having something that people are used to using is important. So one of the things that we need to judge is recognising the role of the Royal College of Psychiatrists—admittedly, it is not the Chief Medical Officer—and take its words seriously.

I was somewhat shocked by the words of the noble Baroness, Lady Murphy. I do not know if she ever used the Mental Capacity Act in her time as a professional. I know she is experienced in this in terms of psychiatry, but I was pretty horrified by the words she just used in this Chamber about the witness.

[Lord Bassam of Brighton (Lab)]

It is certainly clear that she used that test continuously as part of her career, actually. While I am on my feet, I wonder whether the noble Baroness thought of reviewing the Mental Capacity Act while she was Secretary of State for Health. Was that something she considered then? That piece of legislation has certainly stood the test of time.