Business of the House
Debate between Lord Ashton of Hyde and Lord Foulkes of Cumnock
Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab Co-op)
The noble Lord, Lord Cormack, is absolutely right. It is happening everywhere: the so-called Bill of Rights, which is not a Bill granting rights but a Bill taking rights away, is being introduced in the other place without any pre-legislative scrutiny, in spite of the fact that three committees have requested pre-legislative scrutiny. It ought to be done. This is the cavalier way in which the Executive are treating the legislature, and if we do not stand up against the Executive, this democracy is not something that we can be proud of.
Lord Ashton of Hyde (Con)
My Lords, I am going to be brief, because we have a lot of important business to do. On normal occasions, the way to address these issues is for the usual channels to discuss them, and I certainly have not been approached by the usual channels on this. However, I have some sympathy with the noble Lord, as well as some experience, having taken through well over 200 government amendments on a Bill previously. I found that the way to get that through well and with agreement in that case was to have plenty of engagement outside the Chamber. I gather that the noble Lord has already met the Minister this morning, and since then more information has been provided, particularly in the shape of a Keeling schedule.
I am told that a lot of these amendments—the majority—are technical, and I do not mean technical in a way that is trying to avoid the issue. The others are explanatory. But if we have proper engagement before Committee—and, of course, five days of Committee are planned, two of which have extended hours—there will be plenty of opportunity to scrutinise these amendments. I know that the Minister is more than ready to engage further with the noble Lord, so I am certainly of the opinion that he will be ready and able to give the Bill the scrutiny it deserves.
Arrangement of Business
Debate between Lord Ashton of Hyde and Lord Foulkes of Cumnock
Lord Ashton of Hyde (Con)
The recesses coincide, with the exception of the September Recess when the Commons will rise a week later on 22 September and return a week later on 17 October. That is the only difference. It is not unprecedented for there to be a slight difference of plan around this time, as there was in the previous Session. Sometimes we start business earlier, and that allows the minimum intervals to take place. Normally we interlink, but it does not have to be like that. We are our own House. We determine our own dates and there is no particular reason why they have to be the same.
Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab Co-op)
What about all-party meetings? There are a lot of meetings—political meetings and non-political meetings—and there is a whole lot of business where both Houses work closely together. As the Chief Whip rightly said, the last time when we had separate dates it created a lot of problems. There were things happening down at the other end that we should have been participating in. I hope that the Chief Whip will go back and have another look at this and see if he can find a way of getting them to coincide.
Lord Ashton of Hyde (Con)
I am always open to suggestions. I do not say that I will not look at it, and I accept the point that in some cases an APPG might take place, but we are giving people plenty of warning on this so they are able to arrange the dates that suit them to combine with both Houses. It is perfectly possible to work around this. Sometimes it helps if we come back one week different to get business done and vice versa so that business can come from the Commons to us. We do not have to be the same, but I take the point. Having made those decisions, I think it is unlikely that they will change.
Covid-19
Debate between Lord Ashton of Hyde and Lord Foulkes of Cumnock(2 years, 10 months ago)
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Lord Ashton of Hyde (Con)
My Lords, we have not had anyone from the non-affiliated Benches yet.
Business of the House
Debate between Lord Ashton of Hyde and Lord Foulkes of Cumnock(3 years, 5 months ago)
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Lord Ashton of Hyde (Con)
My Lords, on behalf of my noble friend the Leader of the House, I beg to move the Motion standing in her name on the Order Paper.
Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab Co-op)
My Lords, I do not know whether this is the appropriate time to ask, but I will do so nevertheless. I know that the Government Chief Whip, with his usual courtesy, will be able to answer.
We all recognise the importance of getting these measures through as quickly as possible. We realise that this will have an effect on the way this House operates; no doubt the noble Lord will speak to us about that at some point. He will be aware that there is some concern about the way in which the House is dealing with the Committee and Report stages of Bills and the inability of Members who are present to intervene and to participate fully.
The Procedure Committee should look at this. It would be possible for a change in the rules of procedure to give the people present the right to intervene, whereas those not present would have to accept that it would be impossible, technically, for them to intervene. This would make Committee and Report stages much more useful and meaningful for all sides of the House.
This could be done without any difficulties as far as public health is concerned. It would not affect public health measures in any way, but it would greatly improve the way in which this House carries out its functions to scrutinise legislation—which, as the Chief Whip knows, is one of the most important matters this House deals with.
When I have sat in on Committees, I have heard a number of Members on all sides of the House ask about this. I wonder whether the Chief Whip, the usual channels and the Procedure Committee could have a look at this and see whether something could be done about it.
Lord Ashton of Hyde (Con)
My Lords, obviously I am aware of the point the noble Lord has raised; it is something the Procedure Committee has looked at before. Although there are technical difficulties, I am sure it is not beyond the wit of man to come up with some kind of solution.
The regulations we are debating today, although they do not directly affect this, do affect the arrangements of this House going forward. It is unlikely that we will change the procedures. Obviously, it is not my decision—ultimately it is a decision of the House—but this will be discussed at the Procedure Committee. We are going to look at when we might be able to return to a more normal, physical House—subject to social distancing and health advice, of course. Obviously, all of that has to be taken into consideration. The current likelihood is that we will continue with our current arrangements, or thereabouts, until the Summer Recess—but that is not a guaranteed position. It has to be decided, but in my opinion that is likely.
It is acknowledged that most Members on all sides of the House take seriously the intervention stages—the amending stages—of legislation. I will report to the Senior Deputy Speaker what the noble Lord has said. When we have a meeting, we may be able to discuss that, but it is unlikely to change before we come back in September.
Arrangement of Business
Debate between Lord Ashton of Hyde and Lord Foulkes of Cumnock
Lord Ashton of Hyde (Con)
My Lords, I thought it might be helpful to make a short statement about the arrangement of business today and tomorrow. We expect to receive a message from the Commons in respect of the Fire Safety Bill in time for us to consider the Bill again at a convenient point after 4.40 pm today, as set out on the Order Paper. Should everything go to plan, we expect the window for noble Lords to table Motions or amendments to be open between 3.15 pm and 4.15 pm. I urge noble Lords to keep an eye on the annunciator for any updates and to consult the Legislation Office at the earliest opportunity should they need further information.
In addition to the business already set down for tomorrow, we will consider the Overseas Operations (Service Personnel and Veterans) Bill again. The message from the Commons should arrive today and the window for noble Lords to table Motions or amendments will remain open until 11 am tomorrow. Subject to the progress of business in both Houses, we may consider further Commons messages tomorrow. I will update the House at the earliest opportunity if that is the case.
Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab Co-op)
My Lords, does the Government Chief Whip agree that this is going to cause tremendous problems for people working remotely, and that it underlines the unsatisfactory nature of hybrid proceedings? How are they going to find time or know how they can table amendments within that one-hour period? Will the Government Chief Whip, through the usual channels, look at every possible way to get this House back to working normally, so that everyone can participate fully—particularly during this time of ping-pong, which is a very important time for final discussion and debate on vital amendments? People who are not able to come here in person are at a real disadvantage. I hope the Government Chief Whip will use the usual channels to find a way to get us back to normal as quickly as possible.
Lord Cormack (Con)
Further to what my noble friend the Chief Whip has said, would he accept that it is essential that, from 21 June at the latest, it is expected that parliamentarians should be in Parliament? We should conduct business as normally as possible, in a self-regulating House, from that date. Could my noble friend give an assurance that that is indeed what the Government wish to do?
Business of the House
Debate between Lord Ashton of Hyde and Lord Foulkes of Cumnock(4 years, 9 months ago)
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Lord Ashton of Hyde (Con)
My Lords, in moving the Business of the House Motion on behalf of my noble friend the Leader of the House, I want to make a short business statement. As announced in yesterday’s Forthcoming Business, this House will have its chance to debate and scrutinise the emergency Terrorist Offenders (Restriction of Early Release) Bill on Monday 24 February. We will take all the Bill’s stages that day. As always, and while we may not always agree on everything, I am grateful to my colleagues in the usual channels for their co-operation in scheduling this important Bill. The Bill was debated in the House of Commons yesterday for five hours and passed unamended. On the practical arrangements, a speakers’ list is already open for Second Reading and will close at 4 pm on Friday 21 February. If the House agrees to the Business of the House Motion, the Legislation Office is open and ready to receive amendments for Committee now that the Bill has been read a first time, and it will produce a Marshalled List on Friday 21 February after 4 pm. This will allow early discussions regarding the grouping of any amendments tabled by that point. On Monday 24 February, if necessary, a revised Marshalled List will be produced after 5 pm. Members will be able to table manuscript amendments until 30 minutes after the end of Second Reading. Further timings will be confirmed on the day. I beg to move.
Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab Co-op)
My Lords, the House deserves a greater explanation. I am not against what is proposed, but the Chief Whip has not explained why the Bill has to get through in a day. I think there are important reasons, which as it happens I support, but it ought to be explained to the House and the public why we are taking this exceptional action—not just the technicalities of it but the principle behind it.
Lord Ashton of Hyde
I am happy to do that. The critical date is Friday 28 February, when a particular prisoner may come up for release. That means that the Parole Board has to do its business with its new-found powers, if passed by this House, on the Thursday. That means that Royal Assent has to be on the Wednesday, which means that, if there were any amendment on the Monday, there would be ping-pong on the Tuesday. That is why the timetable is so critical.
Business of the House
Debate between Lord Ashton of Hyde and Lord Foulkes of Cumnock(4 years, 9 months ago)
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Lord Ashton of Hyde
That Standing Order 46 (No two stages of a Bill to be taken on one day) be dispensed with on Wednesday 26 February to allow the NHS Funding Bill to be taken through its remaining stages that day.
Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab Co-op)
I think the House deserves an explanation on this occasion as well. We put through too many things on the nod in this House—recommendations from committees and so on—and only afterwards do we realise the implications of it. Increasingly, the Government should explain exactly why Motions are being considered by this House, without them being put through on the nod. I hope that the Chief Whip can give us the courtesy of explaining why.
Lord Ashton of Hyde (Con)
My Lords, the usual channels have of course had this explained to them, but I accept that I have not explained it to the noble Lord. The NHS Funding Bill has been certified by the Speaker of the House of Commons as a money Bill, and that is conclusive for all purposes. In the case of money Bills, it is the normal practice of this House to take all stages after Second Reading formally.